Colt for reasonable money?

SophieLouBee said:
So, the colts brother, is now a breeding stallion I think. the sellers of the colt really made light of the testicle thing, hence my obviously naive opinion on breeding him, as I was going on what a breeder was telling me (obvious now to make a sale).
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I'm afraid some people ARE that irresponsible!! It is rare (IME at least) for colts not to have both testicles descended by 12 months old. I've had two in 9 years - out of different mares by different stallions.) I was mightily embarrassed that I'd sold one at weaning without realising it - I wouldn't have sold him in that state and I now check any colts I sell! (Although he was NOT being sold as a stallion prospect!) The other is coming up 18 months and if the second is not down next spring, he'll be gelded the expensive way - but he WILL be gelded one way or another!

Anyone who uses a colt as a stallion who has been 'late' is perpetuating a problem. Not only are slow descenders more likely NOT to descend, not many people want to keep colts around until they are 3 before gelding (or the bill for doing it the hard way!)
 
SophieLouBee said:
....... the sellers of the colt really made light of the testicle thing, ....... as I was going on what a breeder was telling me (obvious now to make a sale).
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And to paraphrase M R_D, from the '60s, "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" ;)

If you're determined to succeed, then I think that in your shoes, I'd scrape together a little more money, and source a youngster with a little more to recommend him.

I wish you luck, you may need it!

Alec.
 
Oh dear. I'm a bit shocked as the people seemed nice & were happy to tell me all about it!
It's a shame as I really did like him, I'm almost tempted to have him and geld him and see if he's any good as a riding horse. At least I know he'll end up somewhere decent that way.
 
Ha, Alec, I do feel rather silly.

I have the funds, it was more about not expecting it I think. More research is definitely needed on my part, never-mind luck!
My partner looked at younger colts too, well bred but only weanlings, now I trust her totally as she bred decent racers & pba more recently. But with a younger colt, is it more of a gamble on whether it will follow suit and become a good stallion? You look at 2yo and there is a lot there to go by, but a weanling, how do you know? Also, for a decent foal, what would you expect to pay?

Sorry, so many questions!
 
If you buy a regular weanling WB colt which nice bloodlines you could expect to spend between 3-7k. For one with stallion potential you are somewhat at the sellers mercy but you could pick up one for 5-10k. These are weanlings remember so you have 4-5 years before you can even get them out competing. You'll need to have the stallion inspected and graded (which is costly in itself). Give it another 2-3 years and your stallion could be doing nicely in competition. So to get your stallion up and running and ready to cover mares you need to give him around 6 or 7 years. Owning a competing/breeding stallion is expensive and time consuming ... are you SURE you are up for it?

So Sophie how about another route because this stallion idea you have doesn't look like it's going to pan out unless you really are planning to go down the backyard breeder route. Why don't you dip your toe in the water first? Buy yourself 2 decent, very well bred mares and get them approved and graded. Breed to a couple of suitable stallions, doesn't have to be top-notch German stallion competing on the international circuit, you could choose a British bred and owned stallion who has made a bit of a name for himself in the UK. Breed your 2 mares and 18 months later see what you have in front of you and what potential you feel your weanlings have. If just after birth you can see that your foals are something you feel was worth doing then go through the same ritual again with rebreeding. If they aren't and you feel this is no longer a route you would like to go down then sell on the mares or find another job for them. You would have to have a decent budget to do this also but you should cover your costs (if you chose well and all goes well) and lesson learned that perhaps breeding is not for you.
 
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Spring Feather said:
If you buy a regular weanling WB colt which nice bloodlines you could expect to spend between 3-7k. For one with stallion potential you are somewhat at the sellers mercy but you could pick up one for 5-10k. These are weanlings remember so you have 4-5 years before you can even get them out competing. You'll need to have the stallion inspected and graded (which is costly in itself). Give it another 2-3 years and your stallion could be doing nicely in competition. So to get your stallion up and running and ready to cover mares you need to give him around 6 or 7 years. Owning a competing/breeding stallion is expensive and time consuming ... are you SURE you are up for it?

So Sophie how about another route because this stallion idea you have doesn't look like it's going to pan out unless you really are planning to go down the backyard breeder route. Why don't you dip your toe in the water first? Buy yourself 2 decent, very well bred mares and get them approved and graded. Breed to a couple of suitable stallions, doesn't have to be top-notch German stallion competing on the international circuit, you could choose a British bred and owned stallion who has made a bit of a name for himself in the UK. Breed your 2 mares and 18 months later see what you have in front of you and what potential you feel your weanlings have. If just after birth you can see that your foals are something you feel was worth doing then go through the same ritual again with rebreeding. If they aren't and you feel this is no longer a route you would like to go down then sell on the mares or find another job for them. You would have to have a decent budget to do this also but you should cover your costs (if you chose well and all goes well) and lesson learned that perhaps breeding is not for you.
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Totally agree with ^^^. If you or your business partner have some decent mares spend some money using a an outside stallion. Yes you pay a stud fee BUT you get the benefit of him hopefully already being graded/recognised in the country or beyond and not have the hassle of keeping and owning a stallion. Plus with using a 'known' entity you will be able to have an idea of the qualities you may get in your foals and who knows, you may breed a colt that turns out nice enough itself that it can stay entire and then therefore a few years down the line you have your colt as well as more experience of your own to back it up.
 
Thanks guys :)

I was and am aware of the time & financial implications over the long term, hefty, I guess when you're faced with it it's a bit like :eek:, especially when you've never done anything like it before. What I have looked at, I have seen better mares than I have anything else. So you definately have a point about that.

Funnily enough she has been in contact with me about another mare that one of her friends has told her about, in foal to a graded warmblood, the mare is graded also, both coloured, thats as much as I know.

In regards to money, putting it in to a reliable/proven source, that you have a better guaranteed outcome from, is the sensible route.

It's really good to have people in the know for advice, as apart from my partner, I don't know anyone else who breeds.
 
Please check where these animals are graded - some grading schemes are much more reputable than others -especially when the horses are coloured.
In some registries you can have an "elite" stallion as a two year old with only parents known and no known breeding behind.
 
Interesting thread!!
In recent years I have paid between £8,000 and £17,000 for 2 yr old colts, and I cut the
17k one as a 4 yr old!!
Re retained testicles, it cost me £1,200 at the beginning of this year, and that was cheapest quote!
 
2 year old Sieger Hit coloured colt out of graded mare £3000 (but awful photos on the adverts).
 
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You know I am getting seriously worried about the caliber of horsemanship these days. I think enough has already been said, but is sounds like there is yet another substandard colt due to be standing in a couple of years time. So basically the poster & partner have a herd of mares & are now looking for a cheap colt to cover them again to keep costs down. Good luck to them, they wont be the first or last to do it. One other thing, there are not that many people who can look at a colt & say yes that is stallion potential. So just supposing SophieLouBee you find a nice "cheap" colt, & after the expense of say 3yrs (though perhaps you will be trying him out at 2yrs) keep, you find he has not come up to expectations, what then? Geld him? but you have just spent x years waiting for him & the expense of keeping him!
 
SophieLouBee said:
thanks jg, the colt had been bought in from another yard. I've never heard of him but he's up Staffordshire way.
The mares have, been with some nice stallions of various sorts, and the youngstock sold well, that's about as much as I could tell you.

This isn't a light hearted decision, so I'm not going to throw my money into any old thing, I really do appreciate the advise on here, and I am pretty naive. But I do have a clue on the current state of the Market, and I wouldn't want to be involved in flooding it with even more horses that no one wants, sorry if it came across that way!
this really is a learnining curve for me, and no way would I proceed with anything, unless I got advice from people who are experienced, luckily they are close to hand ( in rl and the advice on here).

So, the colts brother, is now a breeding stallion I think. the sellers of the colt really made light of the testicle thing, hence my obviously naive opinion on breeding him, as I was going on what a breeder was telling me (obvious now to make a sale).
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Quote "We are currently looking for a colt, rising 2/2yo, would have 3yo at push.

Dressage/event breeding, doesn't need to be the top of the top, I've looked at some nice homebreds too which I would consider, as I know what mares I'd eventually be putting him to when he's all growed up, infact, type is more important than anything else! Must must must be 16hh plus. That is my criteria, pretty wide spectrum right? You'd think I'd get a good choice, right? NO, all I seem to be finding are over-priced things that I like &/or nice cobblets that aren't what I'm looking for but are worth the money!


People, seem to have inflated values of what their horses are worth (see my stud reduction thread *sob*). I'd have had the colt mentioned on there and taken him home yesterday, but the silly beggar just wouldn't negotiate on price at all, I know I drive a hard bargain, but only because I *hope* I know my shizzle, as does my business partner. We are just not prepared to pay over-the-odds in this market.

We are rather out of the loop, so I need some contacts, sales, ideas, help?!

Where are all these cheap colts that no one wants?! "

"I *hope* I know my shizzle, as does my business partner" - "I really do appreciate the advise on here, and I am pretty naive." - Happily those with stallion potential colts are not!
 
I'm not going to comment on the price or quality of any potential stallion..at the end of the day that is a matter for you and there is plenty of good advice here.

My view is that unless you have a stallion who is likely to be outstanding, it probably isn't worth taking that route. Using outside stallions you can see what your mares produce, vary the stallion choices each year to give you potentially a second generation herd of brood mares, and use some of the more fashionable stallions if you are solely breeding to sell. You can also breed for more than one discipline instead of being restricted by what your own stallion can produce.

Along the way you may just produce your future superstar stallion.
 
Yes,
Irresponsible breeding........ , some people think they will win the lottery, I would never buy a youngster from people with inflated ideas of their horses, but there are people who do, to be honest if "breeders" can keep stallions and mares and make a profit, they would be better employed in another industry as they are entrepreneurs, ie able to take turn a small amount of money in to a big stash. They are not able to breed stock.
 
Thanks for all the useful input again guys. It really is an eye opener, there are a lot of stallions standing at stud, surely they can't all be good enough? How do these people stay afloat, do people still use them?
I think, the idea of having something at home was appealing, but with all the info being provided from you and other breeders, perhaps not the right one.
I want to breed something for myself to start with, to produce and then to be competed by someone. See how the horse gets on and go from there.
I have a successful business & this isn't for me to make a quick buck on, i want to do it for the experience more than anything (good job really). However, this still is an investment, and I'd like to get back what I put in.
 
MrsD123 said:
Yes,
Irresponsible breeding........ , some people think they will win the lottery, I would never buy a youngster from people with inflated ideas of their horses, but there are people who do, to be honest if "breeders" can keep stallions and mares and make a profit, they would be better employed in another industry as they are entrepreneurs, ie able to take turn a small amount of money in to a big stash. They are not able to breed stock.
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Eh???
 
Interesting discussion!

I have gelded all but one of my colts this year, purely down to this kind of attitude! I also have a rising 2 year old colt that everyone loves, but want to buy for pennies. I will be hanging on to my "stallion potential" colts and produce them ourselves.

What really worries me is the amount of people, who have no stallion experience, but are actively seeking out young colts to stand at stud, it is quite scary. Regardless of what others may think of the grading system in the UK, this is a great wake up call to all mare owners. If your mare is good enough to be bred from, then the least you can do for her, is seek out a GRADED stallion.
 
Have not read the entire post, but thought I'd just add something I found out personally a few weeks ago. I was at Tattersalls TB yearling sales, and personally I thought they would be really top class potential serious winners for sale. Don't get me wrong, there were some, but also there were some only going for 800gns. So they were destined for the track, and not your warmblood dressage types, but some TB's do make greatness outside of racing. If you think you can see something special, he may not have top breeding that we know of, but at seemingly a ''good price'' then why not go to the sales and see what you think?
Just as an idea, and maybe thinking outside of the box, but someone has to at some point!!
((FYI a yearling sale is on at Tatts at the end of the month))
 
cool mix said:
Have not read the entire post, but thought I'd just add something I found out personally a few weeks ago. I was at Tattersalls TB yearling sales, and personally I thought they would be really top class potential serious winners for sale. Don't get me wrong, there were some, but also there were some only going for 800gns. So they were destined for the track, and not your warmblood dressage types, but some TB's do make greatness outside of racing. If you think you can see something special, he may not have top breeding that we know of, but at seemingly a ''good price'' then why not go to the sales and see what you think?
Just as an idea, and maybe thinking outside of the box, but someone has to at some point!!
((FYI a yearling sale is on at Tatts at the end of the month))
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You are very right in the case of great horses being able to be found at the sales. I know several advanced eventers that were bought for less that £500 at sales but in the case of this post I don't think that would be a suitable option when looking for a stallion prospect.
 
The bloodstock sales have been like that for a good few years now. They arent selling and breeders are getting them back as they havent met the reserve. Where as 15 years ago they were making a very good price. My friend sold one she had bred for over 30,000 gs. but now there is no money in it.
 
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