Colt/Stallion Owners - Advice Please?

IMO I wouldn't keep a colt entire unless his breeding was good.
There are a great many well bred stallions out there that can offer their services, why keep another crossbred horse to be able to breed in this delicate climate! have him cut, let him enjoy life without the worries of being a undesired stallion.
He will enjoy life far better without those worries.
Sadly he is nothing special and shouldn't be bred from IMO.
My boys are well bred, DNA tested and only used on approved ladies.
 
Kao, I know it all sounds pretty negative but it is all sound advice, we stand 4 Stallions, all with totally different personalities. but lots along the way have been been gelded for one reason or anouther, always sad but better than producing foals that have an uncertain future. The sales are full of them. why not get your little colt geld him and enjoy the fact that he is by your boy and have lots of fun, you will then know that he will have a future with you, good luck and happy new year
 
Have worked with ID and TB stallys, have to say the TB's were just out of training and would go pretty wild after their first covering. Anyway we bought Welsh Section D many years ago who was previously owned by some people who didnt know he was a full horse when they bought him, but they soon found out as he covered their shetland and the shetland had a foal and thats when they realised he was a full horse and they had him gelded. Anyway back to the point, he was 4 when he was gelded and he was amazingly soft and kind. You wouldnt even know his past, in fact it made him the horses he was.
 
Because, at the end of the day, if he still turns out to be what I would personally want for myself, and I have my own land, mares etc. Then there's no reason why I myself wouldn't have one or two foals then geld him.
I'm waiting till he's 3 mainly for development (he's already underweight and malnourished. At 1, he's had a bad start) and also because if he makes the grade for public standing (not that I'll stand him till years from then.) I want to keep him a stallion to approved mares.

Kaylum, the colts sire, my gelding, was gelded at 4 and he's turned out with mares and geldings. Wouldn't ever know he was a stallion or that he'd been used on so many mares. His temperament is amazing and aside from being a bit long in the back (to me he's long, but I prefer compact types) his conformation is pretty textbook.

I'm taking all the advice given into account, it's very helpful and hopefully I'll have a nice, healthy little colt by the Spring. Though I may need to pick some of your brains along the way :p
I've found livery with amazing facilities that can cater to his and my every need. Knowledgeable staff, lots of other people to help out and they hold a fair few shows so when I move Kao too I'll have the full package for both of them :)

Again, thank you for all the advice. It was very helpful and I'll keep you all updated :)
 
i bought a colt for myself to breed from, he is a cross bred, three races, i got him because i honestly could not find what i was looking for in stallion to cover a special mare that i had bred, i used him at 6 years old having waited to see the end result, the foal is nearly three years old, it is the best one i have bred, i could sell it to top competitors including a vet who deals in competition horses, but if they offered me 25 000 pounds i could not sell, he is unreplaceable and for me unique .
many of the stallions at stud are saturating the same bloodlines in the marketplace, depressing sales, and i believe not what people are always looking for, sometimes something different finds niche in the market and makes itself commercially viable, the only way to find out is to try.
grading is not always the route to take, it is someones opinion, you can licence stallions even part breds with their breed society, they are examined by a vet.
it is a huge commitment to have a stallion, examine why you want to do this, and what it is about this colt that so inspires you, and if you go ahead please do it only when you have the right set of circumstances for your own peace of mind.
remember it takes many years to truly prove a stallion, maybe til it is 10 or12 years old, you don't have to cover many mares just the right ones, do it to breed good horses not as many people do to make money.
 
I feel concerned that there are so many almost giving the green light here. We are talking about a (and I hate to say this) bog standard sire, the like you will find thethered on verges up & down the country side. Being bred by families that have been breeding them for years. The dam I have not seen, but does not sound special, has no breeding (and no there is no problem with that. Lack of competition results, well its bloody expensive business & time consuming getting out to shows). Point is neither parent is OUTSTANDING & I doubt very much that they have managed to produce a son of enough quality or ability to justify passing his genes on.

There is nothing wrong with cobs, cob x or their offspring, but there are 100's of people already breeding them. I honestly do not see how this poster is going to improve on what is already out there. If I was, what 17? Then I would be going the route of grading, because I sure as hell doubt enough knowledge has been gained to pick out a stallion potential. Believe it or not I hate being this harsh, but there are people with far more experience who get it wrong on both sides (those that grade as well as those that put forward animals that clearly are not good enough). Age does not bring experience, granted, but if UK breeding really is being raised, which mare owners are going to use a stallion of unknown breeding until he has proved himself?

Now I shall wait for the backlash, which is sure to come.
 
I am afraid, and wait to be also jumped on, that I agree with Magic 104 here on this one. Regardless of his temperament as an entire being good, there are just soo many stallions out there that the market is overflushed with them.....and more recently especially those of the gypsy cob variety. The best of these and thus the ones that get the most mares are those coming from proven Gypsy bloodlines and ancestry, however in this case you do not have that.

I have experience working with stallions and geldings and I do believe that to stay entire they have to have that something special....as, after all, aside from the obvious, the life of the average stallion is by and large a solitary one, whereas as a gelding he would have a life lived with any and all horses as his sire does.

I had the same conundrum a few years ago in that I had a lovely PB Trak coloured colt out of a lovely welsh mare and he certainly had all the qualities necessary to warrant keeping him entire in himself....however his parentage is what made me geld him as he would undoubtedly have never received the usage of a similar stallion of better breeding. I have never regretted the choice to geld him and only sold him a few months ago...in the meantime of which he played an irreplacable 'uncle' role to the other youngsters.

So, my personal opinion in this instance would be to geld him. Regardless of you using him on your own mare, etc. and grading him (which as you say if he failed you would then geld) but seriously....look at the number of stallions graded by CHAPS and the BSPA and work out in all honesty how many of them must receive enough mares to warrant being kept entire when they could have nicer lives as geldings.
 
I agree in principle, Magic104!

My green light was based on the fact that OP said the sire has perfect conformation and a cracking jump ... and that wants to go through gradings and geld if it doesn't go as planned. I don't know what the sire looks like but if he's nice enough that he was run as a stallion for a while (even if a bit freely by the sounds of it!) and jumps mountains, then why not retain his only colt offspring for a few years to see if he's inherited the sire's qualities?

One will remember that Greenbank Harlequin was bred from pretty humble origins!

(and now I'm going to go through OP's posts to find the sire ...)
 
MissTyc said:
I agree in principle, Magic104!

My green light was based on the fact that OP said the sire has perfect conformation and a cracking jump ... and that wants to go through gradings and geld if it doesn't go as planned. I don't know what the sire looks like but if he's nice enough that he was run as a stallion for a while (even if a bit freely by the sounds of it!) and jumps mountains, then why not retain his only colt offspring for a few years to see if he's inherited the sire's qualities?

One will remember that Greenbank Harlequin was bred from pretty humble origins!

(and now I'm going to go through OP's posts to find the sire ...)
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Not to cause arguement here Miss Tyc but I do not think you can fairly compare this colt to Greenbank Harlequin whose sire, Charleston Esquire was I believe bred by Brendon Stud and whose dam was of decent and noted TB breeding, making him in AES studbook terms eligible for pink papers.
 
Question if gypsy cobs where not able to go to hoys would we have so many? and would you get producers having them, when Chaps was run by Penny shepherd we tried to educate people to improve coloured horse breeding.
 
If you like the colt and think it has stallion potential then ,providing you have a suitable place to keep him,keep him entire for the time being. Have several knowlegeable people look at him and get them to evaluate him. You may have to pay for this advice. Take him to shows ,county level shows,not local. See if he is placed in the top 3. If he does well in the ring and acknowledged experts agree that he is stallion material then you can go ahead and use him. If he is down the line at shows and people think hes very average or worse then theres no point in breeding from him as theres plenty of mediocre colts and stallions around and its poinless having him entire. So then you can geld him.
 
eventrider23 said:
Not to cause arguement here Miss Tyc but I do not think you can fairly compare this colt to Greenbank Harlequin whose sire, Charleston Esquire was I believe bred by Brendon Stud and whose dam was of decent and noted TB breeding, making him in AES studbook terms eligible for pink papers.
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Well no, but no one expected him to be what he is!
I may be biased though as I have a gelding off him from a very rubbish, long backed, pigeon toed, untalented mare (not mine, I will add!! Bought the gelding when he was 2) and he's a spit of his father (also hopefully soon in training with Penny like Harley was) ...

As I said, I don't know the OP's gelding, but if he is as quality as she says with the jumping scope and perfect conformation then surely a colt of his stamp deserves his fair chance at the gradings?

(having now read more about the sire in question, I tend to agree with everything you've said, btw. Unless he photographs *very* badly, he's not really what I expected from the starting post here! ... so that, at this point, makes me a Devil's Advocate ... but my intentions are good and am very much against indiscriminate breeding ... then again, the OP says she is, too, so would one presumes do things by the book)
 
The sire's pictures on here are from when I first started schooling him properly. But he was learning.
I could've forced him into and outline for pretty pictures, but that's how he started and a week later he was going (and still is) very well for me in the school and out hacking.
No he isn't anything special yet, but if you expect a horse that's been started from scratch and ridden for all in all about 4months to be a top competition pony jumping affiliated and schooling at a high Dressage then sorry but that's not what I intended to do with him right now. I have the rest of his life to improve him to a stage where I think he's ready to go out and compete at a decent level.

We've all got to start somewhere.

As for the mare, she isn't mine and she's nothing to do with me. From what I was told she's in her late teens now and not ridden any more (too busy popping out foals left right and center I should imagine).
Neither of the parents have any breeding, the sire leaves a lot to be desired to qualify being "Cob Stallion" material. For one I'd expect more natural feather and wider all round (he's clipped but worked, that's as wide as he's going to get).

I like the colt. I have the money and the time to produce him. I have knowledgeable people who, though they think I'm crazy, are on hand to help me with anything at any time. If he doesn't make the grade for me (since it will be my mares or mares I think are suitable he'll be covering) then it's the snip and he'll make another competition horse for myself.
He'll have a damn site better life with me than someone who's buying him to keep a stallion no matter what without bothering with grading, licensing etc.

At least I'm trying to prove his quality before putting him on anything.

If you look at his sires first thread when I first got him compare that to this. Personally, when they said he had foals I felt like I was either going to tear the people to pieces or throw up on them for being such morons to breed something like Kao to anything.

After 5months of hard work, money and hope I got this.
15mcidc.jpg

2dtbs6f.jpg


A nice pony with an impeccable temperament and, though he's still nervous of other people, will make me a great competition pony. It's hard work trying to prove people wrong, and I got hundreds of bad comments about him that he'll never make it anywhere, I'd be lucky if I got past Prelim and that he'd never jump.
He's schooling better than most of the horses owned by the people who made them comments.

As for what inspiration do I have for the colt, easy, Kao. Because if that colt is in any kind of state Kao was then it's my job to make sure he has a better life from the moment he sets foot on my trailer till the day he dies.

ETA:
The pictures aren't that great. I hadn't ridden him for a week and a half prior to that :o
and, apologies for the trainers. I didn't pack my boots *headdesk*
 
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My question would still be why you want to own a stallion, as many of the other posters have said, there are hundreds of stallions out there to cover your mares. No one is doubting your riding or horse managment ability, what they do doubt is finding somewhere suitable for him to live (if you dont have your own place) with competant people handling him. The quality of life he would have as a stallion (most stallions lead a solitary life) is not as good as if he were gelded and why would you want the hassle. As far as i can make out most of the posters on here are speaking from experience.

I personally do not think it is fair to keep animals entire if the are not going to be able to have regular "unloads", it must be incredibally frustrating for them.

:)
 
Allover said:
My question would still be why you want to own a stallion, as many of the other posters have said, there are hundreds of stallions out there to cover your mares. No one is doubting your riding or horse managment ability, what they do doubt is finding somewhere suitable for him to live (if you dont have your own place) with competant people handling him. The quality of life he would have as a stallion (most stallions lead a solitary life) is not as good as if he were gelded and why would you want the hassle. As far as i can make out most of the posters on here are speaking from experience.

I personally do not think it is fair to keep animals entire if the are not going to be able to have regular "unloads", it must be incredibally frustrating for them.

:)
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I have found somewhere for him where he'll go out and have a normal life. Turned out and brought in and stabled next to other horses. I'm also moving my gelding there so they will go out together. He'll be far from solitary I can assure you.
I can't put a reason on why exactly I personally want a stallion aside from I've always clicked with them and always wanted one of my own. Granted, I didn't expect to be getting one like this but it's how it's panned out.

I want to get everything done properly with him and decide exactly what to do in terms of entire or gelding when he's 3 and I know briefly what he's most likely to achieve level wise.
 
At the end of the day. I'm buying the colt.
I asked for advice and I got good advice from experienced people. To those people, thanks very much :)

I'll decide what I'll do with my colt when the time comes.
 
Well said Maesfen - if you ask for advice you need to be prepared to take it on, not just ignore it and carry on as you intended in the first place when many people have spent the time to reply with good advice to you.
 
She asked for advice, she has weighed it up and made a decision based on what was said though I think she maybe just posted to confirm she was going to do it regardless of what was said :D

Good luck with him, hope he turns out to be a superstar and wins everything he enters, has loads of babies and lives a happy and fullfilled life :)
 
Kao said:
No he isn't anything special yet,
>
>

A nice pony with an impeccable temperament
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Yep - he's a nice enough pony - but he's unlikely to EVER be more than that! Obviously he can be trained to work nicely but he was NEVER stallion potential - and it's highly unlikely his son is either!

And yes, I'm a stallion owner - and every year I look at my colts WITHOUT the rose coloured spectacles! Most of them get the snip (and they're pure-breds with good pedigrees!) 1 - or maybe 2, get run on for another year, and maybe 1 will be retained to go to stallion grading!

There are FAR too many 'ordinary' stallions around - whose only qualification to BE a stallion is a pair of testicles! :rolleyes: Hell, half of the stallions I see graded each year prompt the thought: "he'd make a NICE gelding!"
 
My advice was freely given and comes from years of experience. Experience is learned from others or from one's own triumphs and tragedies. I feel certain that the OP is about to embark on a steep, and somewhat expensive, learning curve. It would be of interest to all to hear how the grading process goes for this indiscriminately bred colt and would request that the OP keeps us abreast of the colt's progress, together with pics. In the meantime, I stand by my advice in the hope that reason will prevail and no more foals of questionable quality will face an uncertain fate. I have spent some time today looking at various websites offering youngsters for sale. It is heartbreaking!
 
Before I posted I had already seen a number of photos of the sire, hence my comments. No one has to take the advise given, but for heavens sake dont go on about indiscriminate breeding then talk about keeping a mediocre colt entire. I have said this before, I spent the best part of my teens around these types of horses/ponies. They make fab ride/drive animals, do well on fresh air & I have a real soft spot for some of them. They are a mix of natives (Welsh/Dales/Fell), clydes, shires, for the bigger horses. There are studs that specialise in them & have a far better understanding then I feel this poster does. I am sorry but the sire does NOT have perfect conformation even for a gypsy vanner, gyspy cob, Irish Tinker, etc. First off they dont have to have a huge amount of feather. If you want to see variation then next time you are in Hemel, Boxmoor opp the railway station have look in the feilds there. From about Apr/May until later on in the summer those fields are full of travellers & static travellers mares & foals. Not all of them are feathered up, but they are still your bog standard nice tempered muck about with horse/pony. We have a monthly sale just outside Buckingham, again full of these bog standard ponies, full feathered & otherwise. We are already inundated with them, they have been bred for years & every now & again one shows a bit of talent for jumping or dressage, but just look at how many are bred & how many make it to a decent level. They were not bred as competition horses/ponies for above riding club level anyway. And I agree with another poster, would they be so popular if there was not a class at HOYS? The Americans went mad for them for a while & there was a guy nr Liverpool breeding them almost for that market. One or two of the larger ones have gone onto be Drum horses.

I wont post again on this thread, but basically, there are enough out there some good, too many like your now gelding. How old are his eldest offspring? Are any of them showing above riding club talent? If not, again why would you think his son is going to? A good horseman by the way can tell a decent horse with or without muscle, with or without weight. As for the son again, though they go through the ugly stages, a good judge will know whether to keep him a bit longer. I hope you have found him a nice secure place to stay as the last thing you want are any accidents because he has manged to get in with other liveries mares. My friend had a Christmas Eve foal some years back because of a colt being left a bit longer at a livery yard.
 
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