Competing (dressage) in a treeless?

PucciNPoni

PucciNPoni

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I noticed an ad for Solution Saddles -I'd not normally go for a treeless saddle but I'm trying to decide on a new saddle. He's a 15.1 pba and doesn't really take up my 17.5 inch Ideal Jessica very well - and it doesn't fit me brilliantly either (but I do need the 17.5 inch). I'm tempted to get one of these to trial, but I wonder if anyone actually competes in one of these?
 
I compete in a solutions GP - both unaff and BD. Ring them up and get a fitter out to you first, as they suit some people but not others. I hate jumping in mine as it is so different from my old CC saddle and so I feel very insecure, but Wilby goes much better in it.
*Think* a 17.5 is equivalent to a size 4 (mine is a 4 and too big for me, but 3s never come up on ebay!)

edit: the newer versions (smart & sport, mine is an older 'freestyle') look more conventional and feel more conventional to sit in :)
 
Thanks BN - I would prefer the more conventional one - I have been digging thru old posts on here to see what treeless saddles are available. I'm not sure it's the way to go for us - but I want to keep my options open because I do feel that his saddle is causing some atrophy on his back - saddler comes out twice a year to check it but it goes from pinching at the wither to pressing on his lumbar. :confused:
 
It sounds as if the saddle is possibly too low in the rear gusset - so once it is the right width at the front it is cantle low which sits you too far back and places pressure as you say on his lumbar spine. Consider a Mattes correction pad set up as a gentle rear riser IF the saddle is otherwise correct, and once the muscle damage has repaired you can look again at a new saddle. If you'd like to go treeless away, but there will be other options and it just might be your current saddle is salvageable with a correction shim system, but worth getting a second opinion on it.
 
sbloom said:
It sounds as if the saddle is possibly too low in the rear gusset - so once it is the right width at the front it is cantle low which sits you too far back and places pressure as you say on his lumbar spine. Consider a Mattes correction pad set up as a gentle rear riser IF the saddle is otherwise correct, and once the muscle damage has repaired you can look again at a new saddle. If you'd like to go treeless away, but there will be other options and it just might be your current saddle is salvageable with a correction shim system, but worth getting a second opinion on it.
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Yes cantle does come quite low - but he's got a really dipped back (not a sway back but nearly!) so a saddle placed alone would make you ride up hill. He's been in a prolite riser for about a year, and slowly we've removed the rear shims as his back has come up. However it's still not quite right cos the physio has commented that he's getting tightness in his wither - removed the shims again and now there's a bit of atrophy on his back again.

I have been considering a Made to measure saddle (I'm finding that my saddle doesn't fit me brilliantly either, my knee seems to want to come over the knee block) but when I spotted the treeless saddle ad, I started wondering if this might be a better option. I like the idea that it means that he can take a larger seat (which I need) without worrying so much about it coming back over his last rib. I want / prefer a more conventional saddle but I would prefer it even more if he was comfortable. I keep wondering if the problems I have with him hollowing in the transitions are perhaps caused by his saddling issues?
 
I passionately hate treeless saddles for me - my hips can't cope. But they do serve a purpose. My YO had a couple for a few years and whilst they are fine for lower levels the support is not there for moving up I.e when do more lateral work (although again fine for the basics). If you can find one to trial for a while might be worth doing. Or finding a really good saddler that you can try lots of different things on and see what you are both happy with. Some require so much padding if feels like you have a foot of leather and material under you before you even get to the horse.

I freely admit I am hugely fussy when it comes to saddles though so my opinion can't always be trusted!
 
If you read up about made to measure you'll see that it's not always the answer. I think it's much better to find a fitter you trust and to buy a saddle from stock, or a standard saddle with a small alteration (I fit a LOT of saddles that need a little more depth on the rear panel) - this means a bench made saddle rather than a M2M. Easier to sell on, and somehow that lack of exact fit can mean a better dynamic fit - M2M saddles sometimes focus on the static fit ie how it fits with no rider and the horse standing still.

Also there is usually at least a non-refundable deposit involved with M2M - if you buy a saddle from stock then you are protected by distance trading laws which give you 7 days to trial the saddle and up to 28 days to request a refund. Much better than the grey are of custom saddles. I've yet to see a horse that needs a custom saddle anyway tbh.

And just because this saddle isn't working doesn't mean that you can't have a better traditional saddle. You could even look at things like flexi panel saddles (I own a ReactorPanel but sadly the agency situation in this country is questionable, talk to the company in the US if interested) and other non-traditional options that would give you more security and look more traditional than a treeless.

I see horses transformed on a weekly basis by the RIGHT traditional saddle. You may find that the tree shape isn't quite right, or the panel - something that is too curvy or too narrow or high in the head (pommel) could contribute to the sort of issues you have.
 
I have a Solutions, the old freestyle one with a gullet, and have no problems competing in it. I think it is crucial you trial it as it has a different feel and not every horse or every rider like it. It's the only saddle R will go in but F hates it! I find it really good for my back, although siting trot is more of a challenge in it as you feel every movement the horse makes - on the other hand this is a plus as you feel every movement the horse makes!

I don't have personal experience, but from what other people say, a Heather Moffat Phoenix may be another option for you.
 
Well one big reason for me to not necessarily want a M2M is the fact that they can be so expensive, and then I always do wonder about the resale value if I needed to sell it on....

But more important to me right now is getting something that fits us both, and that he can work a bit more comfortably in. I never even dreamed of the difference between buying a M2M or one from stock (ie being able to return a traditional purchased one vs M2M - but it makes sense - just hadn't really thought of it). Just figured that a M2M might be the answer to our problems.

I'd love to get a few saddles to mess about in, but as I'm not made of money....*sigh* if ONLY!

I'll have a word with my saddler and see what she says. I'm torn between trying someone new or go with someone that I've used for years.
 
Booboos said:
I find it really good for my back, although siting trot is more of a challenge in it as you feel every movement the horse makes - on the other hand this is a plus as you feel every movement the horse makes!

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LOL, a bit of a catch 22 isn't it! I guess any treeless saddle could be a make or break with regard to balance issues (if there are any) eh?

Think Hubby'll murder me if I say I'm wanting to spend thousands on a new saddle....:eek:
 
Solutions are very expensive, around 2k, but you can find them second hand on e-bay. Heather Moffat ones are about 1k and I think there are more affordable models as well.
 
Just wanted to say that I recently purchased a Solution Freestyle and both my horses go really well in it and I love it. Its the first saddle that I have had that doesn't play my back up and gives me really good feedback on the horses movement.

The good thing about a Solution is that you can have the saddle on trial to see if you and your horse really like it. With one of mine I found that she didn't like the more traditional looking Smart. It looks much more normal in the front but she has a fairly high wither and didn't find the more padded and much firmer pommel comfortable but goes really well in the freestyle. It does look slightly different but when you are sitting on it it doesn't show. The other good point is that I can have one saddle that fits both of my horses and if I change horses it should fit them as well.
 
Yes, the solution saddles are pricey - but so is physio every six weeks (especially when we go back and forth between "tight in withers" and then "atrophy in lumbar") :(

I'm going to do the research on the HM ones later (my brain is fried now).

Pascal, I have just emailed SS to see about maybe getting a trial on one of these.

I'm telling you, Hubby is going to kill me! I hope someone will want to buy my Jessica quick!
 
Booboos said:
although siting trot is more of a challenge in it as you feel every movement the horse makes - on the other hand this is a plus as you feel every movement the horse makes!
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Lol, I found that! When Wibs really opens over his back he has a very bouncy trot, made bouncier by the saddle expanding to go with him - I nearly fell off the first time we got 'that' trot :p

For me the SS has been the ONLY saddle I've tried that doesn't slide forwards on my horse - he's low and narrow in front, higher and wider behind, with a very active back end once he gets going - a traditional treed saddle shunts forward onto his withers, making him sore and reluctant to work correctly. It's by no means perfect for me (although the 'smart' felt it ;) just couldn't afford one!), especially for jumping, but I'll just have to get stronger and grippier!
 
I love my solution saddles. I've done a days hunting in mine, jumping big hedges without any issues. Also backed my youngster in one last year, and he's doing very well and i hope to do BD with him and later BE. I currently only have the GP, albeit two of them, as I couldn't warrant dressage and jumping saddles as well. The second GP was a bargain of ebay, to allow my mum to ride out with me on my other horse. I do intend to buy myself a Smart Dressage at some point though.

Well worth having a fitter in and a two week trial :)
 
Another question for ya'll - how do they last - do they hold up well ? A friend was telling me that in her experience that treeless saddles look kind of rough after a few years - as in they look deflated! :confused:

I've had lots of really positive feedback about how these saddles have really transformed their horses or their riding (some folk and horses don't get on with them, and I suppose that's to be expected) but it really does give me some hope that some of the problems I have been having might be sorted with this type of saddle.
 
I've had my first one from new for a year and a half. It still looks like new when i give it a good clean. The second saddle off ebay, is older and second hand. It's not had an easy life and was a bit grubby when it arrived. But that was a cosmetic build up of grime more than anything else. It looks 10x better now than it did when it arrived. I know if I were to sell it on I'd make at least what I paid for it, probably more. But it was a bargain, so I'm not complaining!
 
I have a heather moffatt treeless which I bought for my last horse. We never made it to BD as he was too stressy to take out but we did plenty of schooling at home and he went really well in it.
 
Overall the quality of the leather and stitching leaves a lot to be desired and is nowhere near what you would expect for 2k. I've had mine about 4-5 years and it hasn't aged so it's still what it was to begin with. The stuffing is as good as new, but I did ask about that when I bought it and was told it could be replaced if there ever was a problem for a small fee (200 pounds I think is what they said at the time). I did see a second hand one though that had very uneven use so be careful.
 
Many thanks again for your replies :D

As it turns out, I spoke to my physio lady to get her opinion on these and she's got two treeless for me to try (one so happens to be a solutions saddle that she bought 2nd hand - but the seat will be too small - the other a torsion which doesn't really interest me but I will give it a try just to see how S feels ridden in it). She also tells me that the SS rep in our area is a yard within hacking distance from me and she runs a riding school and all their horses are ridden in SS - so a couple of options for me to try. I'm rather excited....how daft! LOL
 
Just thought I would add to this :)

I have a Barefoot dressage saddle, and I can see why people wouldnm't like them as they do make you sit wide, but mine is so comfortable for me, and I love being able to feel his movement, which has been more important recently as he has been unevenly striding behind (PSD + other issues!). I don't compete at any level (or at all atm!) and don't think I would ever get to the higher echelons of dressage tbh!

I bought mine as finding a good second hand MW-W treed saddle was proving impossible, and the Barefoot was £600 new with the physio pad etc to go with it. Yes the quality is nowhere near as good as a normal quality leather saddle, but I am hoping it will see a few more years out (had it 3 years so far) before I stump up the cash for a proper one (the albion ones are so pretty :mad: ) I think it will also be useful when breaking my sisters youngster this year, as an easy intro to saddle :)
 
I looked into a solutions saddle. Only thing I will add is that by looking at the website, it suggests that it's not a saddle you can plonk on any horse, you stil need the fitter to check all the padding etc is right.
 
I have jumping and dressage solution saddles, we have the smart sport models and to look at and ride they look no different to a normal saddle. I've competed be and bd in them and no one has ever noticed, just have a pad like a prolite type thing but feels a bit firmer under then and normal thin saddlecloth.
 
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