Competition home only??

[PinkvSantaboots]

When my friend was looking for a horse she contacted a yard that had several dressage horses for sale, they asked my friend what her intentions were and because she wasn't a serious dressage competitor they wouldn't even let her view them, there words were they are competition horses and they will only be sold to competition homes.

 

[millikins]

Unfortunately People Judge happy hackers and look down at people who just ride for fun . They want there horses to do fancy things even though most horse aren’t suitable to be a be big competition horse.

For me it isn't at all about looking down on people who ride for fun, that's what I do though I'd drive competitively again if I had a suitable animal. It's seeing people out riding badly, slopping along with slack reins meaning they are not in control and are relying on the good will of their mount not to get into difficulties. And that so often seems to be what "happy hacker" means, not someone whose primary equine activity is hacking. I have native ponies, all are expected to hack alone or in company, none is particularly difficult but none would cope with weak riding and I suspect the OP might be giving that impression by the wording of her response.

 

[Illtellyoulater]

For me, I put a lot of effort into educating my young horses for a variety of disciplines and I like to think that the effort is being appreciated by new owners as I have spent time and resources schooling and competing them.

However, a large part of that education is ensuring they hack out pleasantly, solo or in large groups, so although it is lovely see the horses I have produced going up the levels in a chosen discipline, they would also suit as happy hackers.

I get upset if I see them just turned out in a field to get fat, or pulled about by ham fisted jockeys, so try really hard to place them carefully when selling (would like to keep them all, and now I more solvent am selling less frequently), even buying back on occasion if a child in the family is the right age (I am small so produce ponies mostly). Although the ponies may not care if they compete or not, it gives me lots of pleasure to see them out and about

 

[paddi22]

I was asking a friend about this, who sells competition dressage horses. Her view is that her horses are trained to a high level and she wouldn't want them to go to someone who would confuse them or ride them badly. that it would be very stressful for a horse who had been taught correctly to ride from seat and weight aids, to suddenly be asked to make turns by the inside rein being yanked. she said there is no guarantee with any buyer, but that someone who competes is more likely to have a good support network of coaches, be constantly trying to improve, be a better fit for the horse. she thinks it's someone that would possibly have better facilities, be more aware of arena surfaces, quicker to pick up on little niggles in the horses ways of going. her main thought was that someone who competes is investing in themselves to improve as a rider, and that gives the horse the best chance of a suitable home. they were her thoughts on it.

 

[scats]

I hate the notion that horses that only hack lead unchallenged, boring lives. Ours live out yes so they get the enrichment they need there. And they do mainly just hack, but we go out EVERYWHERE on them and they enjoy it - beach rides, Moor rides, fun rides, jumping big logs in the woods, they are excellent in traffic and trustworthy in most situations, all go out on their own or in company, never phazed by going to new places. They are fit and we do lots of fast, long rides, they could stand a days hunting, we just choose not to really. They've been to clinics etc and we do have the very odd lesson.

OP I'd do as a previous poster suggests and just say you plan to compete, it's up to you what you do with the horse once you've got it!

Agree with the hacking stuff. I think it takes far more guts nowadays to take horses out hacking and they certainly see a lot when they are out! Far more than they would in the average arena.

 

[Antw23uk]

You are giving too much information and its putting people off. I've read your post and my initial thought is you are probably writing something they dont like the sound of so are therefore being polite and saying they'd prefer the horse to go to a competition home when in fact they are probably not happy with something you are saying, terms you are using or experience you are trying to portray!

 

[paddy555]

. It's seeing people out riding badly, slopping along with slack reins meaning they are not in control and are relying on the good will of their mount not to get into difficulties. .

but as a HH I expect to be able to ride with loose reins and I most certainly expect my horse to be able to take control of the situation and not to get us into difficulties. I don't expect to have to carry him along all the time. If we get to a bog I expect him to point it out to me not walk straight into it, a difficult river crossing I expect him to get across it and keep us both safe, if there is a herd of cattle blocking the road I expect him to shift them and get himself through. I expect him to find the track across the open moorland and to stick to it at a suitable speed.
Relying on the goodwill and sense of the horse to sort out problems is surely paramount for a HH. That is what the horse is trained to do. I expect him to be clever and intelligent in working hacking problems out.

Slack reins doesn''t mean you are not in control. I rode my arab in a neck ring (nothing on his head) he was fully under control and I certainly relied upon his goodwill, also known as ability and sense, not to get into difficulties.

I think taking horses out hacking teaches them far more about life, coping and seeing the world than the average arena.

 

[ycbm]

slopping along with slack reins meaning they are not in control and are relying on the good will of their mount not to get into difficulties.

I think we all rely on the goodwill of our mounts to ensure we don't get into difficulties. A contact on the bit certainly won't turn a horse with no sense of self preservation into a safe one. I find it's very often the case, too, that a slack rein says to the horse "nothing to worry about here".
.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I was asking a friend about this, who sells competition dressage horses. Her view is that her horses are trained to a high level and she wouldn't want them to go to someone who would confuse them or ride them badly. that it would be very stressful for a horse who had been taught correctly to ride from seat and weight aids, to suddenly be asked to make turns by the inside rein being yanked. she said there is no guarantee with any buyer, but that someone who competes is more likely to have a good support network of coaches, be constantly trying to improve, be a better fit for the horse. she thinks it's someone that would possibly have better facilities, be more aware of arena surfaces, quicker to pick up on little niggles in the horses ways of going. her main thought was that someone who competes is investing in themselves to improve as a rider, and that gives the horse the best chance of a suitable home. they were her thoughts on it.

I can understand this to a point, but I still don't think you need to compete to improve.

I totally get making sure the horse is paired with a suitable rider for the horse's temperament and training. But I think you can have regular lessons, enjoy clinics and want to invest in your riding and horsemanship without necessarily wanting to compete - someone I know invests so much into dressage training and is super talented/knowledgeable but has competed once or twice in the last ten years.

I've also know people that compete week in week out that I wouldn't leave alone with my horse let alone let ride them as I just don't think they are sensitive or skilled enough.

I can understand not wanting to let someone buy a GP trained horse as the prospective owners expects him or her to hack for a couple of hours to the pub (as a fairly extreme example) but I don't think wanting a competitive home automatically means they'll be a more skilled or more insightful rider/owner.

 

[paddi22]

yeah there's plenty of good riders who train hard and have no desire to go to comps. and plenty of riders doing shows, who never get lessons and are a disaster doing a round of jumps. it's hard to generalise. I'd imagine in the back of her mind, it's better for her business to have her horses been seen out and about, instead of disappearing with no records as well.

 

[millikins]

but as a HH I expect to be able to ride with loose reins and I most certainly expect my horse to be able to take control of the situation and not to get us into difficulties. I don't expect to have to carry him along all the time. If we get to a bog I expect him to point it out to me not walk straight into it, a difficult river crossing I expect him to get across it and keep us both safe, if there is a herd of cattle blocking the road I expect him to shift them and get himself through. I expect him to find the track across the open moorland and to stick to it at a suitable speed.
Relying on the goodwill and sense of the horse to sort out problems is surely paramount for a HH. That is what the horse is trained to do. I expect him to be clever and intelligent in working hacking problems out.

Slack reins doesn''t mean you are not in control. I rode my arab in a neck ring (nothing on his head) he was fully under control and I certainly relied upon his goodwill, also known as ability and sense, not to get into difficulties.

I think taking horses out hacking teaches them far more about life, coping and seeing the world than the average arena.

Paddy555 and ycbm, I think you both know what I'm trying to say and it isn't that I expect everyone out hacking to be practising their travers up the bridleway

If I were selling a horse and somebody contacted me saying they were a happy hacker it would immediately conjure the image I see locally of people who sit like a sack of spuds whilst their overweight mount shuffles along half asleep. Whereas if they said that they mainly hack and do some RC clinics for example then they'd sound like a far more suitable buyer.

 

[ycbm]

No I really didn't realise that's what you were trying to say, sorry. I genuinely thought you were saying that it wasn't right for anyone to hack with slack reins. Happy to be corrected
.

 

[millikins]

No I really didn't realise that's what you were trying to say, sorry. I genuinely thought you were saying that it wasn't right for anyone to hack with slack reins. Happy to be corrected
.

Well I was trying not to be too rude because how people ride their horses is none of my business, but the OP asked why she might be putting off buyers and her wording would have that effect on me.

 

[Caol Ila]

Well I was trying not to be too rude because how people ride their horses is none of my business, but the OP asked why she might be putting off buyers and her wording would have that effect on me.

Wouldn't you just ask for clarification? "What sort of hacking do you mean?" "What's your horsey background?" "He needs regular work to stay sane, so he's not suitable for someone who is going to do 30 minutes of walk three times per week." Etc. I would, before writing off a self-described 'happy hacker.' Riding in competitions doesn't mean someone is competent.

 

[paddy555]

Paddy555 and ycbm, I think you both know what I'm trying to say and it isn't that I expect everyone out hacking to be practising their travers up the bridleway

If I were selling a horse and somebody contacted me saying they were a happy hacker it would immediately conjure the image I see locally of people who sit like a sack of spuds whilst their overweight mount shuffles along half asleep. Whereas if they said that they mainly hack and do some RC clinics for example then they'd sound like a far more suitable buyer.

Sorry but I didn't realise either. You said
It's seeing people out riding badly, slopping along with slack reins meaning they are not in control and are relying on the good will of their mount not to get into difficulties

and I interpreted it as that is what you meant. I call myself as happy hacker as I cannot think of another description and I do like the fact that people regard that description so snobbishly so it amuses me.

Re your final sentence I hack daily so why would I need to do some RC clinics to be considered a more suitable home?

 

[paddi22]

Re your final sentence I hack daily so why would I need to do some RC clinics to be considered a more suitable home?[/QUOTE]

Isn't there a difference between a happy hacker and a trail rider though? Some trail riders are perfectly happy just to be in the landscape and out of an arena, but I'd nearly class some more as mini endurance riders, with that skill set. Whereas a happy hacker (I think) in a lot of people's minds, is someone who pops on a horse 2 or 3 times a week and does a loop of a hack chatting to their friend. nothing wrong with that either!

 

[millikins]

The OP asked why she was receiving a poor response when she approached buyers. If I were selling, the term "happy hacker" would have negative connotations for me for the same reasons that the dressage producer gave.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In my mind 'trail rider' indicates that you are probably in North America and 'happy hacker' means you are likely to be in the UK.

 

[paddy555]

Re your final sentence I hack daily so why would I need to do some RC clinics to be considered a more suitable home?

Isn't there a difference between a happy hacker and a trail rider though? Some trail riders are perfectly happy just to be in the landscape and out of an arena, but I'd nearly class some more as mini endurance riders, with that skill set. Whereas a happy hacker (I think) in a lot of people's minds, is someone who pops on a horse 2 or 3 times a week and does a loop of a hack chatting to their friend. nothing wrong with that either![/QUOTE]

I never use the term trail rider as it is rarely used in the UK and seems more relevant to the US. I pop on the horse daily, don't do a loop and always ride alone.

What does amuse me (although probably off the original post on this thread) are posts which come up on here of things such as "my horse won't hack alone, doesn't like tractors, traffic, cows, pigs, deer, can't do gates, naps, won't go past things etc etc. yet the happy hacker slopping along with reins in loops (washing lines I think they were called) happily deals with these daily.

To my mind there are plenty of people riding and schooling their horses badly and endlessly in arenas and equally also plenty who are efficiently happily hacking their horses out.


I am far too old to be other than amused by the term happy hacker. It does however seem a bit unfair that some people should use it as a derogatory term and regard HH's as inferior which seems to be the case for the OP of this thread.

 

[eahotson]

Isn't there a difference between a happy hacker and a trail rider though? Some trail riders are perfectly happy just to be in the landscape and out of an arena, but I'd nearly class some more as mini endurance riders, with that skill set. Whereas a happy hacker (I think) in a lot of people's minds, is someone who pops on a horse 2 or 3 times a week and does a loop of a hack chatting to their friend. nothing wrong with that either!

I never use the term trail rider as it is rarely used in the UK and seems more relevant to the US. I pop on the horse daily, don't do a loop and always ride alone.

What does amuse me (although probably off the original post on this thread) are posts which come up on here of things such as "my horse won't hack alone, doesn't like tractors, traffic, cows, pigs, deer, can't do gates, naps, won't go past things etc etc. yet the happy hacker slopping along with reins in loops (washing lines I think they were called) happily deals with these daily.

To my mind there are plenty of people riding and schooling their horses badly and endlessly in arenas and equally also plenty who are efficiently happily hacking their horses out.


I am far too old to be other than amused by the term happy hacker. It does however seem a bit unfair that some people should use it as a derogatory term and regard HH's as inferior which seems to be the case for the OP of this thread.[/QUOTE]
agree 100%

 

[paddi22]

If I had to guess I think people might view happy hackers as someone who has no interest in improving their riding, learning more or bettering themselves or their horse. You can't teach your horse or yourself anything properly unless someone is coaching you. I think on a horse forum you are gonna have a lot of people who work and train very hard, and just see this as a kind of laziness or lack of curiosity about learning and improving.

typically if someone is only pottering a handful of times a week then the horse isn't going to be fit or muscled and more likely to be unfit/overweight. so on a yard, they are being compared to someone with fit sleek muscular horses.

it's a very easy step to slid into a discipline once you put a tiny bit of focus and energy towards it. Like even someone saying they do low level rc dressage, would suggest someone who is trying to learn bend, balance, rhythm, relaxation etc. But to not be receiving some sort of teaching, shows someone with potentially a shut-off mind; that doesn't want to explore or learn, or improve themselves. A lot would think the the onus should always be on us to get better, to ride with a better contact, to sit better, to learn more.

Saying that, there are plenty of happy hackers who might be older or have injuries and are very well trained and just want a relaxing hack with no pressure. when my mum was sick I couldn't take the pressure of training or comps, so I did just happy hack for most of a year and enjoyed it immensely. so it's a wide spectrum and people can be happy hackers for a wide variety of very valid reasons.

but I think if someones buying a horse and describes themselves as 'just a happy hacker', the first thing that flashes through your head as a seller is 'they can't jump, they'll have bad flatwork, this horse won't be ridden correctly, it won't have a varied workload'. but if someone said 'I do a bit of dressage, the odd fun ride and a lot of hacking' you'd be happier as a seller selling to them as they have a bigger skill set.

 

[eahotson]

You know when I have sold horses in the past what I have looked for is a good home with nice people.I didn't really care much what they wanted to do.I sold one through a selling livery because he was too much for me and I wouldn't have been able to show him properly or attract the right sort of buyer.One woman rang me and wanted him for her very novice child.I explained (nicely) why I didn't think he would be suitable and she actually thanked me for my honesty.When the selling livery found someone I just wanted to know about the people themselves.They were adults, reasonably experienced and with help.On top of that they were lovely people so I agreed to the sale.

 

[scats]

If I was selling Millie (which I’m not!), I wouldn’t care whether someone just wanted her for hacking or to do a bit of everything on. The vibe from the people and a good home where she is safe, looked after and treated well would be my absolute priority.
I think the term ‘happy hack’ conjures up some rather fluffy images but simply stating that your main discipline is hacking seems far better.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think it is such a shame that 'happy hacker' is used as such a negative term to describe others. All it really means is that both horse and rider enjoy hacking as their main activity. It doesn't really say anything about the rider's skill level, the level of schooling the horse has or the length of the hacks.

It is interesting that IRL I have never found it to be negative when people use the term to describe themselves. What I have usually found is that the less people make of their skill level, the more skilled they actually are. The ones that list several things to demonstrate what good riders they are, are usually lower skilled. Maybe that's just the people I met though and not representative of horse people across the country?

 

[Follysmum]

The best home for any horse is a well cared for one.

 

[paddi22]

The best home for any horse is a well cared for one.

I agree on some level, but there's definitely some horses that need particular kind of home to be fully content. Someone can absolutely adore and care for their horse, but if it isn't a match work wise then the horse can be miserable. One of my eventers NEEDS a good gallop every week. if he does two days in a row in the arena he is miserable. he's an athletic horse that loves to run and jump, if he went to a home that just did arena work he would genuinely get depressed. one of the warmbloods loves work and will happily do hours of focused intense dressage work a day. if he gets two days off he gets bored and becomes a nightmare. I'd another very stressy horse that really enjoyed repetitive arena work where he knew exactly what our warm up routine was, and what the work was. if someone took him off doing a different discipline every week he would have found it too stressful.

It's great being a caring owner, but you also have to look at horses personality and say 'what does this horse enjoy doing?' 'what keeps it motivated?' 'what kind of energy level does it have?' you can SEE the horses who absolutely love what they do. but you can also see people with bored or sour or overwhelmed horses. so I think it's definitely on humans too to make sure a horse actually enjoys its job.

 

[shanti]

Well I have realised that im NOT a happy hacker lol. At least not in the way that the majority views them anyway. Im actually cringing now at the impression I have been giving sellers. I do find it rather disappointing that hacking is so lowly regarded. My horses, and myself, have learned more out of the arena than in it, the arena work just fine tunes everything. Apart from the fact that I find hacking totaly enjoyable, I use it to build fitness, develop trust and desensitise us both to the unexpected. I train in dressage purely so my horses have a balanced, soft, confident rider (and doing a random Levade or passage while riding through the forest is pretty fun haha)

 

[paddy555]

I agree on some level, but there's definitely some horses that need particular kind of home to be fully content. Someone can absolutely adore and care for their horse, but if it isn't a match work wise then the horse can be miserable. One of my eventers NEEDS a good gallop every week. if he does two days in a row in the arena he is miserable. he's an athletic horse that loves to run and jump, if he went to a home that just did arena work he would genuinely get depressed. one of the warmbloods loves work and will happily do hours of focused intense dressage work a day. if he gets two days off he gets bored and becomes a nightmare. I'd another very stressy horse that really enjoyed repetitive arena work where he knew exactly what our warm up routine was, and what the work was. if someone took him off doing a different discipline every week he would have found it too stressful.

It's great being a caring owner, but you also have to look at horses personality and say 'what does this horse enjoy doing?' 'what keeps it motivated?' 'what kind of energy level does it have?' you can SEE the horses who absolutely love what they do. but you can also see people with bored or sour or overwhelmed horses. so I think it's definitely on humans too to make sure a horse actually enjoys its job.

yes that is the case for any horses. Keeping them happy. I don't see however that ties in with saying you will only sell to a competition home.
For example put my arab stallion in a jumping ring and he would have said "no" put him in a dressage arena on lovely flat, smooth grass and he would have fallen over in total boredom. Put him in a steep downward twisting slope, littered with rocks, preferably at a trot and on a loose rein expecting him to keep us safe and demonstrate his responsibility and ability and he was in his element. Yet if someone asked what I did with him the answer would have been "happy hacker" and as some on this thread have demonstrated it would be a derogatory term yet his ability in dealing with difficult terrain would have been no more or less important than a dressage or jumping horse.

Some people buy a horse to hack. That can range from any length or ride. We used to do day rides, 20/25 miles on a Saturday and same on the Sunday. We were hacking. Our horses were expected to be able to cope with a wide range of obstacles, it mattered more to me they could stand still under a tree whilst I got the hand saw out to deal with it than if they could jump. However it was described it was still hacking. I was still a happy hacker.

So how should people whose main interest in life is taking their horses out hacking be described to avoid being thought of as the lowest of the lows.

I remember in the early days of endurance we were described regularly as people who were too scared to do any other activity eg jumping etc. I looked at the standards of care being provided to the horses and their riding and contrasted that to the care and riding of the average hunter in our area. Yet if someone has said their activity was hunting they would have been hailed as brave and normal.

 

[paddi22]

I would never the endurance style stuff you do as happy hacking though. what you describe is miles away from happy hacking. you are technically happy and technically hacking, but not in the sense most people would know it! the level of skill and care needed to keep endurance horses fit and healthy, and the balance and sensitivity needed by riders is amazing. that's a million miles away from someone who walk and trots the same 30 min loop twice a week, it's not the same at all. so your description of yourself as a happy hacker would be misleading.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think that both the 30 min loop rider and Paddy fit the happy hacker description. Think of comparing to dressage, the 30 min loop rider = doing an intro test, Paddy's day hack over tricky terrain = GP!