Competition Horses and Early Deaths

M

Mithras

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 July 2006
Messages
7,116
Location
The Brompton Road
Visit site
Barely a week goes by without hearing about the relatively early death of a reasonably well known competition horse once its entered its early teens. Show horses in particular seem to be prone to it. I compete every fortnight or more, as do many people I know, hunt and work my horses quite hard, but they all seem to live into their twenties/thirties (touch wood!).

Am I being very cynical in thinking theres quite a lot of people out there who have horses put to sleep as soon as they realise they can no longer compete them successfully? (excluding obviously accidents and unfortunate ailments).

Do we owe such horses a retirement, even a short one?
 
Ooo I don't know! I do think that some of the competition horses PTS early can't cope with retirement. So Many seem to break down in the field and maybe it's because it's too much of a lifestyle change for them and they go a bit crazy?
Otherwise they may be worked just that little bit harder so are more high milage, more prone to injury and therefore don't last as long or maybe some of them are PTS because they can no longer compete at top level but are too sharp or not of the right temp to slow down?

I think it's probably a bit of a touchy subject as some famous horses live for donkeys years like Mary Kings King Solomon, red rum and Desert orchid!

Our old horses lived for years and didn't pass away into their 20's but then again they were always schooled properly at least twice a week to keep them supple, were always kept fit and ticking over but they were never worked hard and were lightly competed all their lives up untill they died!
They did slow down a bit before the end but were still ridden most days and taken to shows up until they died, they really didn't need to retire but then again like I said they were worked properly and did a lot of stuff but they were never pushed to their physical limits.
Also I think some horses are just luckier than others...
 
Wagtail said:
I just don't buy the 'he would not be happy retired' line, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

I don't either. I'm sure in a few cases its true but adaptation can be helped with a little effort and patience.

I'm not always convinced that so many of these horses suffer these sudden onset life threatening conditions resulting in immediate pts, coinciding neatly with their form taking a dip. Yes, perhaps indicative of the condition, or just the normal dip in form associated with ageing, but in so many cases not treatable so as to ensure a happy retirement?
 
Sadly the insurance money is worth an awful lot more to many people than the actual horse is.

I know people who have had their horses euthanised for the insurance money, it sickens me that anyone could do that to a perfectly (and easily) mendable horse but they do and it is quite a regular occurrence sadly.

It doesn't only occur in the competition world either, there are plenty of uncaring hobby owners too. I've had the mis fortune to meet both hobby owners and and competition owners who have had their horses killed because they can no longer do the exact job the desire them to.

Money has nothing to do with it either, most of the owners I have known to do this have no need for the insurance payout and could easily afford the horses treatment.
 
team barney said:
It doesn't only occur in the competition world either, there are plenty of uncaring hobby owners too. I've had the mis fortune to meet both hobby owners and and competition owners who have had their horses killed because they can no longer do the exact job the desire them to.

Money has nothing to do with it either, most of the owners I have known to do this have no need for the insurance payout and could easily afford the horses treatment.
Click to expand...

Same here. Those people would say I'm being overly sentimental or prioritising horses over money, but where does humanity distinguish itself over other things? I can see how people might treat animals more harshly in wartime or suchlike, but if the funds are there and the horse is not in unmanagable pain and is still reasonably young, why not give a horse a bit of a retirement? Surely you have that in mind when you buy a horse anyway?

Not that I can do anything about it, but all I can say is those are not the sort of values I find acceptable in people I'd want to be friends with or see socially.
 
Mithras said:
Same here. Those people would say I'm being overly sentimental or prioritising horses over money, but where does humanity distinguish itself over other things? I can see how people might treat animals more harshly in wartime or suchlike, but if the funds are there and the horse is not in unmanagable pain and is still reasonably young, why not give a horse a bit of a retirement? Surely you have that in mind when you buy a horse anyway?

Not that I can do anything about it, but all I can say is those are not the sort of values I find acceptable in people I'd want to be friends with or see socially.
Click to expand...

I agree, people would think me mad the amount of money I have spent getting one of mine well when he was really poorly, and he is well past the veteran label, he is a proper o.a.p now even if he doesn't like to think so!!!

All my spare money goes on my horses, they have the luxuries first. I have bought more rugs and boots and headcollars for the gee-gees in the last five years than I have bought shoes and clothes for my self, about five times as many actually :p


The people I mentioned aren't friends, associates yes, but I wouldn't class them as friends by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I'm actually quite logical and unemotional, but I believe in treating my animals well. I probably wouldn't even pursue a series of expensive veterinary intervention and would pts then, but I wouldn't dream of pts a horse almost the minute it retires from competition. Mind you, the incidence of complicated, "unsurviveable" cases of colic where surgery is never considered in recently retired show horses is shocking.

I'm also thinking of certain well known top eventing horses. Surely the fact that a horse has been recently competed indicates either that (a) it shouldn't have been competing recently while carrying such a serious condition or (b) if it was able to compete recently it is able to withstand treatment and be given an option of retirement?

I'm not saying these owners can't pts their horses - just don't expect me to always believe its for anything other than treating a horse which has served you well over the years like a piece of rubbish you throw away once its no use to you any more.
 
Mithras said:
I don't either. I'm sure in a few cases its true but adaptation can be helped with a little effort and patience.

I'm not always convinced that so many of these horses suffer these sudden onset life threatening conditions resulting in immediate pts, coinciding neatly with their form taking a dip. Yes, perhaps indicative of the condition, or just the normal dip in form associated with ageing, but in so many cases not treatable so as to ensure a happy retirement?
Click to expand...

Gosh it must be a pleasure to live where you lot do! I love how the world is so black and white to people on here! Sometimes it isn't a perfect world and horses just can't cope with not having a routine.

I tried everything with my lad and he had lived out 24/7 with no issues since I'd had him. However after being diagnosed with navicular he went downhill rapidly. As he couldn't be ridden and was uncomfortable he became dangerous but most of all he was utterly miserable and lost all the sparkle he'd once had. He was an livery at the time but TBH I would have made the same decision had he been at home as he was far too unhappy and unpredictable. He was an ex racer and so had been in a working routine since he was 2 and he just couldn't cope with the change. It broke my heart.
 
team barney said:
The people I mentioned aren't friends, associates yes, but I wouldn't class them as friends by any stretch of the imagination.
Click to expand...

Probably because they lack the values needed to make many good, genuine friendships not based on what use someone may be to you.

Which I guess is probably a good thing if you are running a mega successful multi billion pound business, but a bit pointless otherwise.
 
Leg_end said:
Gosh it must be a pleasure to live where you lot do! I love how the world is so black and white to people on here! Sometimes it isn't a perfect world and horses just can't cope with not having a routine.

I tried everything with my lad and he had lived out 24/7 with no issues since I'd had him. However after being diagnosed with navicular he went downhill rapidly. As he couldn't be ridden and was uncomfortable he became dangerous but most of all he was utterly miserable and lost all the sparkle he'd once had. He was an livery at the time but TBH I would have made the same decision had he been at home as he was far too unhappy and unpredictable. He was an ex racer and so had been in a working routine since he was 2 and he just couldn't cope with the change. It broke my heart.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about horses with navicular where treatment has been investigated. I'm talking about people instantly pts horses the moment they have no further use for them, even when they could be turned out and managed in retirement. e.g. if someone had your boy and put him down if he didn't become sound after a short rest and no veterinary intervention, just because he was entering his teens.
 
Leg_end said:
Gosh it must be a pleasure to live where you lot do! I love how the world is so black and white to people on here! Sometimes it isn't a perfect world and horses just can't cope with not having a routine.

I tried everything with my lad and he had lived out 24/7 with no issues since I'd had him. However after being diagnosed with navicular he went downhill rapidly. As he couldn't be ridden and was uncomfortable he became dangerous but most of all he was utterly miserable and lost all the sparkle he'd once had. He was an livery at the time but TBH I would have made the same decision had he been at home as he was far too unhappy and unpredictable. He was an ex racer and so had been in a working routine since he was 2 and he just couldn't cope with the change. It broke my heart.
Click to expand...

:confused: I don't understand what you are arguing against. Surely your horse was put down for humane reasons?
 
Firewell said:
Ooo I don't know! I do think that some of the competition horses PTS early can't cope with retirement. So Many seem to break down in the field and maybe it's because it's too much of a lifestyle change for them and they go a bit crazy?
Otherwise they may be worked just that little bit harder so are more high milage, more prone to injury and therefore don't last as long or maybe some of them are PTS because they can no longer compete at top level but are too sharp or not of the right temp to slow down?

I think it's probably a bit of a touchy subject as some famous horses live for donkeys years like Mary Kings King Solomon, red rum and Desert orchid!

Our old horses lived for years and didn't pass away into their 20's but then again they were always schooled properly at least twice a week to keep them supple, were always kept fit and ticking over but they were never worked hard and were lightly competed all their lives up untill they died!
They did slow down a bit before the end but were still ridden most days and taken to shows up until they died, they really didn't need to retire but then again like I said they were worked properly and did a lot of stuff but they were never pushed to their physical limits.
Also I think some horses are just luckier than others...
Click to expand...

Are you saying that all your horses were worked/ridden up until their deaths? How was that?
 
Wagtail said:
:confused: I don't understand what you are arguing against. Surely your horse was put down for humane reasons?
Click to expand...

My point is you never know the true story in these cases but everyone on here loves to assume that PTS has occured for the money and not the good of the horse. Now im sure that does happen but to tar everyone with the same brush is a bit rich dont you think?

If my horse hadn't had navicular and had gone downhill during retirement then surely PTS is better for the horse than stressing itself out every day or doing itself some damage in the field?
 
Leg_end said:
My point is you never know the true story in these cases but everyone on here loves to assume that PTS has occured for the money and not the good of the horse. Now im sure that does happen but to tar everyone with the same brush is a bit rich dont you think?

If my horse hadn't had navicular and had gone downhill during retirement then surely PTS is better for the horse than stressing itself out every day or doing itself some damage in the field?
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying I don't believe certain top rider's PR machines. I can make up my own mind what to believe in the media, or from what people tell me, and I find I'm fairly accurate. I certainly don't believe everything I am told!

I am also talking about people who make little or no effort to treat or try retirement but simply put horses down because their competition performance has started to decline.
 
I've always suspected this tbh. "XXX The Wonderhorse has just suffered a catastrophic untreatable illness and had to be pts for his own welfare" sounds much better than "XXX The Wonderhorse isn't wonderful anymore, he's just expensive and a bit pointless so he has been pts", doesn't it?

However I'm OK with both scenarios and I can quite understand why the owners/riders bend the truth, if they do.
 
Last edited:
Mithras said:
No, I'm saying I don't believe certain top rider's PR machines. I can make up my own mind what to believe in the media, or from what people tell me, and I find I'm fairly accurate. I certainly don't believe everything I am told!

I am also talking about people who make little or no effort to treat or try retirement but simply put horses down because their competition performance has started to decline.
Click to expand...

But you obviously don't want to see the other side either!

I agree that people sometimes will put a horse down in inappropriate circumstances, and maybe not what an amateur rider would do but we don't all have the same views or opinions. However you don't know the ins and outs of WHY horses have suddenly dipped in performance. You only need to go into comp riders and see how many fluke injuries occur that write horses off for a considerable amount of time.. It does happen. Plus low grade, niggly lameness that won't go away that suddenly come out (it was only five months for my lad between diagnosis and PTS) all happen when a horse is worked hard.

You have to be realistic, how many people in here buy WBs, TBs, proper comp horses and are totally overhorsed? I think it's far better for the horse to be put down than end up in the wrong hands... Just my opinion though.
 
I think that the problem arises because like years ago, working horses had to earn their keep, and in some cases this also applies to competition horses. A horse that isn't competing but taking up room in a stable or field and costing money is taking the place that the rider could be using to bring on an up and coming horse. I'm not saying that I agree with it, but I suspect that this may be the case for some horses. Competitions and training are some riders livelihoods. I am sure that there are plenty out there that do keep horses into their retirement too.
 
I think some of this may be conspiracy theories which don't make a lot of sense. I think it does happen on the daily show circuit and i don't like it any more than you do.

But i think top eventers, surely they have the money to leave the horse sat in the field for a few years if they wanted to? What would be the point in putting a horse down when you have loads of stables, grooms, your top eventer would certainly be insured for a high amount when it comes to vets fees/ treatments. I genuinely think it is probably due to the stresses on the body, that come with competing at top level. For example, those who go around badminton numerous times, how much stress does it put on the joints, the heart, lungs, the immune system with the travelling and excitement of the crowds.

I don't fall for the 'he just wouldn't cope with retirement' though
 
I don't think its right to judge to be honest - being put to sleep is not the worst thing for a horse by a long stretch of the imagination.

Its fair enough to keep a horse for all its natural life if you can afford another horse to ride and compete when one can no longer be ridden. But many people can only afford one horse.

And if your horse is a pet and you're happy to look after a field companion for years on end and not ride - then of course that's fine. But I wouldn't judge anyone who has a horse because they love to ride and compete, and would have one horse PTS so they can have another one. It doesn't mean they don't care about the horse they own, just that they have different priorities.

It doesn't matter to the horse as long as they are treated kindly and humanely.
 
I think comp horses go through a lot of wear and tear so this does detriment their health. We've got two older ponies, one which is just a child's plodding pony and the other was an international competition pony(BSPS, BSJA and WH) and we have found that in her older age Comp pony has had a lot of health issues relating to her joints and muscles due to her lifestyle as a younger horse. It's cost a far amount with vets and keeping check that her joints are manageable. There Are also things at her age that she can't do, due to how she was trained and raised(over pole lunging, roads etc). To some people the loss of value of a + 10k horse isn't worth it and unfortunately they would rather replace them with a new model. It's sad, and I wish I could give them all a home since they deserve it :(
 
Leg_end said:
But you obviously don't want to see the other side either!

I agree that people sometimes will put a horse down in inappropriate circumstances, and maybe not what an amateur rider would do but we don't all have the same views or opinions. However you don't know the ins and outs of WHY horses have suddenly dipped in performance. You only need to go into comp riders and see how many fluke injuries occur that write horses off for a considerable amount of time.. It does happen. Plus low grade, niggly lameness that won't go away that suddenly come out (it was only five months for my lad between diagnosis and PTS) all happen when a horse is worked hard.
Click to expand...

Not at all. I have nothing but admiration and sympathy for people who have to make a decision to put a horse which is suffering to sleep due to illness or injury. I have made this perfectly clear at all times so as to avoid offending people who have had to make such a choice, so I have no idea why you would think that. Please do not make wrong assumptions about what I am saying.

But it is happening, and I think its a bit naive to think it doesn't. You could pretty much have a good guess at the top riders who wouldn't do this - Mary King has already been mentioned, Carl Hester I would put in the same rather more humane category, horseracing doesn't even come out of it that badly in many cases...

I do also believe that young healthy horses with no severe behavioural issues should not be pts just because one rider does not gel with them, when someone else could buy them and give them a chance. They at least deserve a chance to be sold.

I think the same about those people who get new puppies or kittens and send their old dogs and cats to a rescue or rehoming centre, or worse. Its exactly the same mentality - treating lives as disposable items.
 
xspiralx said:
I don't think its right to judge to be honest - being put to sleep is not the worst thing for a horse by a long stretch of the imagination.

Its fair enough to keep a horse for all its natural life if you can afford another horse to ride and compete when one can no longer be ridden. But many people can only afford one horse.

And if your horse is a pet and you're happy to look after a field companion for years on end and not ride - then of course that's fine. But I wouldn't judge anyone who has a horse because they love to ride and compete, and would have one horse PTS so they can have another one. It doesn't mean they don't care about the horse they own, just that they have different priorities.

It doesn't matter to the horse as long as they are treated kindly and humanely.
Click to expand...

I think its perfectly fair to make judgements about what type of person someone is on the way they behave.

I see what you are saying but I do think its fair to at least give a horse some retirement if its been a good servant to you most of its life, even if its just a last summer, than immediately rushing to pts.

I guess if people will keep horses without any turnout all their competition lives, and then suddenly stop their exercise and competition routine and turn them out for the first time in years, its going to come with a high risk of injury. I don't believe its necessarily impossible to retrain horses to be comfortable with retirement by introducing it gradually and making adjustements.
 
Mithras said:
I think its perfectly fair to make judgements about what type of person someone is on the way they behave.
Click to expand...

What type of people people are? Some people who are really quite nice perhaps hold different values to you here and there. Horses don't have our ethics. They don't understand that sometimes their owner is doing the right thing by them by having the vet come and kill them, and they aren't aware that their owner is having them put down to buy another horse to do their old job.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have a problem with perfectly healthy young farm animals getting packed off to become lunch, then you are a hypocrite if you expect all horse owners to keep their field ornaments for what, five, ten, twenty years? What type of people are those rotten farmers not keeping their sheep friends forever and ever and ever? ;)
 
Out of curiousity, Mithras, which show horses are you thinking of and how many exactly do you think/know have been put down as soon as they've retired? I only ask as you seem to have singled them out particularly.
 
Wagtail said:
I just don't buy the 'he would not be happy retired' line, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

We have had our old show horses well into their 30s, but another one just would not settle to doing nothing in the field and in the end he was put down. He did have a number of lameness problems, so was also not pain free which also made a difference when making the decision. But he was clearly not going to hang around in a field as he hated going out and could not be worked due to his other problems. Fortunately that has been one horse out of many, but it does prove that there are some where retirement is not a suitable option.
 
I think that in a lot of cases the horses are so highly bred that they get more health problems than your common coblet and common warmbloods/ TB and the like. Also because they are pushed to their limit from such a young age it doesn't help matters and unfortunately their health pays the price for our demands on them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top