Competition Livery Prices

E

Eventer2012

New User
Joined
23 July 2012
Messages
8
Visit site
Hi,

I was just wondering what people consider good value for competition livery?

I am trying to be a professional event rider, aiming to ride/compete horses for paying owners...I am semi-professional, I work in racing to pay for my 3 event horses and currently have one livery. I have competed to intermediate and am aiming for YR teams in 2014 (2013 pending the right horse!), but have huge experience producing young horses from scratch to being successful/winning up to Intermediate BE/Foxhunter BS/Medium BD.

To run my own horses/business successfully, the absolute minimum I can charge is £170 pw but really needs to be £180 pw and have at least four liveries for even this to be viable. I need to employ a groom but this is sort of included in this price in terms of my own costs...

This is at a top competition yard in Berkshire which I won't name but many will know it, with extensive facilities including a number of large outdoor arenas, with and without quality show jumps, fully lit international sized indoor, extensive xc course, outstanding on and off road hacking, flat schooling fields, steep hills, short hacks to local competitions and uphill gallops, onsite tuition, all year round daily turnout, rubber matting, big straw beds, good quality hay or haylage and so well located many other competitions are within 1 hour/1.5 hours drive etc....

My services would include feed, hay, daily turnout, mucking out, new bedding, riding, tack cleaning, grooming, tidying (mane pulling etc but not clipping), riding, competition preparation including plaiting etc... transport all arranged etc but charged on top and riding at competitions.

I was just wondering if this is an unrealistic price to be asking? I gather that professionals charge £200-£250 pw plus charge riding fees at competitions..but I may be wrong with this....plus I'm not yet a top professional!

Just be interested to hear people's thoughts....

Thank you for your time :)

And happy christmas!!
 
I'm moving my horse in January to a top event yard and full livery including exercise (not necessarily by the events, could be working pupil), but not competing is £185pw. That's in Oxfordshire (can PM you details if you're interested).

Personally I reckon you could afford to charge more for competition livery considering where you are based in the UK.
 
Ok, overheard in local pub (near major venue). Well they were very loud (braying), so I couldn't help hearing sat on next table.

Very well known dressage rider mentioned as training livery at £300 per week.

Moral of this story is that pubs in horsey areas may have other horsey clients, even if you don't know them......
 
A top professional could maybe charge in excess of £200 PW, but the people we know charge between £140 - £175 PW. These would be riders who have ridden at 3 & 4* eventing, but are not of the calibre of the very top riders who I'm sure can charge well over £200.
 
A pro near me (has ridden at 4*) charges £40 per day. This includes all care, riding, tack cleaning etc, but you have to pay extra for the rider to compete the horse and obvously competition entries, shoes, vet fees, travel costs on top. Another pro near me has competed at 2* level and charges £120 per week, care, riding etc included. She charges £30 to compete the horse in a ODE, plus travel costs. Owner pays entries, shoes ect.
 
I'm in Berks, and full livery (so all mucking out, turn out/catch in, hay, bedding, tack cleaning, and exercise 5x a week) on a yard with good facilities is £180-£200 a week so I think you're in the right price bracket.
 
I'm in Kent and always thought the going rate was roughly £20 per day for competition livery? That's not with big famous names but with very good riders who have ridden at 4*. I've also never paid extra for riding at competitions? Doesn't that defeat the point of being on competition livery?!
 
We are based nr Salisbury and OH has competed to 4* level we charge £170pw no extra charged for riding at competitions but obviously entries, shoes and mileage on top of livery.
 
Hi :) thanks for everyone's opinions, really appreciate it, I think for the stage I'm at at the moment it sort of average's about right, and the actual yard and facilities are definitely worth more than a yard with just a 20x40 outdoor, a few road hacks and no turnout, whoever is riding... Plus just re-read my post and it looks like I'm intending to charge for riding at competitions - I should have made it clearer, that's included in the cost!
 
I'm Essex based and a pro rider near to us charges £250 a week for all of what you are offering plus includes competing costs including transport (not entry fees) they were on the olympic team.
I used to be berks based and livery prices here are kind of similar (full livery here is around the (£100-£125 a week mark)
 
Eventer2012 said:
Hi :) thanks for everyone's opinions, really appreciate it, I think for the stage I'm at at the moment it sort of average's about right, and the actual yard and facilities are definitely worth more than a yard with just a 20x40 outdoor, a few road hacks and no turnout, whoever is riding... Plus just re-read my post and it looks like I'm intending to charge for riding at competitions - I should have made it clearer, that's included in the cost!
Click to expand...
I am struggling with the logic of the owner paying more for better facilities! Surely you as a rider are taking on the responsibilty to produce results from my horse the only thing that the improved facilities do is make your job easier so that is a cost thats down to you.There are lots of riders trying to do what you are doing and finding that they have to charge a good bit less than you are proposing to fill their yards.If you are seriously intending to do this I would start in a part of the country where your overheads are lower to start with so you can charge 20/30 quid less.Its all to well having state of the art facilities but no good if you price yourself out of the market. Talking as an owner who does have horses with riders I certainly would not be spending £180/wk with a rider that is inexperrienced!! I try to support young riders but would never even consider one with such a high cost as you are proposing.
 
Last edited:
Afraid I agree with Popsdosh - when I had a horse with a pro it cost me a good deal less than £170/£180 a week, and that was with someone with a record at 3*. I don't see why people would take the risk at that price when they can either spend less and send to a 4* rider or £20 a week more and send to a top pro!
 
Your price seems high to me; good, solid 3***/4**** riders around here charge around £150/week.
Top 4**** riders (on teams etc) charge around £200-220/week.

For someone competing at Intermediate level, I would expect to pay under £150/week.
 
Echo above!! As someone who started doing the EXACT thing 2 years ago, there is a small chance you will get clients at 200pw (unless you have an inside connection) good luck if you do seriously hats off! I charge 150pw, I've got decent facilities and top location 5mins from M40 (good walker, massive flood lit school, good hacking, gallops, not posh but workable indoor stable yard, turnout, lunge pen, hot hose down area, its a bit agricultural (ermm on a farm!!) which isnt my ideal fantasy but does the job, infact my liveries love it as the youngsters are bombproof in a week!!! sadly i dont have parents with a yard so renting is going to be my only hope but I needed to keep my overheads low so I sacrificed a mega yard I first went too so that I could charge competitive prices and that is the only reason I can make it pay!! I have just finished all my finances for last year and had i stayed at the mega posh yard there was NO way I could have done it. Top top professionals round me are desperate for full liveries let alone lowly me! I ride at 3* and have been lucky enough to get to Badminton and Burghley age 21 but it means nothing to an owner if they have a choice of a young rider or a 'name' charging the same. Sadly that is reality I found out the hard way as for a couple of months when I was at super posh yard I was barely making any money, now I have a wait list and lovely loyal clients :) I would love a yard like the one you have got but having tried it for a couple of months I was living in a fantasy world but Your circumstance may be different to mine.
My parents don't pay for me (my dad runs the lorry though which is so amazing and im very lucky) and I have a house with my husband so I actually have to make money unlike quite a few of my peers at the same level that can do it via bank of mum or dad. No problem with that though- I would if I could!!!


Also some things I found out on my journey- Some clients are VERY VERY VERY difficult and demanding! ;) BUT you have to smile and go out of your way for them as that is your job, you will get all sorts of liveries- NEVER turn them down even if they're not shiny event horses, you will be bottom of the food chain in your area so take all clients on with the same gusto as a 4* event horse, treat every horse with as much care and attention as your own. that is crucial. Remember an owner can take the horse away whenever they want and you have to pay your rent. employing people is a minefield sometimes they don't show up on the day you have 10 in and have to leave for an event at 4am!! Good ones get snapped up by the top pros offerong more money! I still cant afford a full time girl so i muck out 8 before i start riding most days which is pretty hard but my mum helps me on her days off so very lucky there too.
Insurance and paper work is a full time job on top of a full time job!!
However it is amazing when you find your feet!! My horses, girls and clients are awesome but taken me 2 years to breathe and dare I say relax. Loads of luck hope it all falls into place! I will be very envious if you get clients at £200 pw though hehe!!
 
millitiger said:
Your price seems high to me; good, solid 3***/4**** riders around here charge around £150/week.
Click to expand...
But that's less than I pay for full livery including exercise in the nearby area to where the OP is looking. Surely therefore competition livery should be more expensive? Sorry, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just that I can't understand why full exercise livery is more expensive than the competition livery (and I know my yard isn't the only place that charges that amount!).
 
dressage_diva said:
But that's less than I pay for full livery including exercise in the nearby area to where the OP is looking. Surely therefore competition livery should be more expensive? Sorry, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just that I can't understand why full exercise livery is more expensive than the competition livery (and I know my yard isn't the only place that charges that amount!).
Click to expand...

Only saying what prices I know people charge

This is 7-8 different riders in great eventing areas (some in the Cotswolds, some in Gloucs/Worcs/Warks), all with good facilities/competition centres/motorway links and events close by.

If I was going to pay £180-200/week for my horse to be produced, I would be going for the rider who has produced numerous horses to 4****/championship level over the young rider who has ridden to Intermediate (assuming I thought they would suit my horse/ my needs yada yada)
 
ElleJS said:
treat every horse with as much care and attention as your own. that is crucial. Remember an owner can take the horse away whenever they want and you have to pay your rent.
However it is amazing when you find your feet!! My horses, girls and clients are awesome but taken me 2 years to breathe and dare I say relax. Loads of luck hope it all falls into place! I will be very envious if you get clients at £200 pw though hehe!!
Click to expand...

This - not in your area but full training/competition livery with renowned trainers who used to compete internationally, used to cost me just short of 900 pounds a month. Very experienced and successful at producing young horses, with large indoor, massive outdoor with a course set at all times. However your horse imho tends not to be treated as an individual. You would be much better to stress what Elle SJ notes, the care and attention. Additional support being offered at shows or events can be an extra good selling point and income source for riders that compete themselves.
 
Two separate points. . .

One, to ESJ's point about facilities, a less than super posh place can actually be a bit if an advantage, as it can weed out some of the 'difficult' clients at the door. Of course fantastic facilities will also attract some people but not always, in my experience, the sort you necessarily most value when you are finding your feet.

Re comparison between competition livery vs a full service livery yard - it is actually more expensive often to run the latter. Things like staff available to tack up anytime (rather than on a set schedule), providing staff after hours, running arena lights into the evening etc can be more labour intensive and costly than having a working student or two to tack up etc for one or two people who ride mostly during daylight hours. The cost of the rider's time is actually a tiny fraction of the payout and most riders actually supplement with clinics etc. Having the staff etc to satisfy a large number of riders is actually more costly.
 
Thank you for everyone's opinions, I'm just interested to see what people think is realistic before I go ahead and actually set the prices. Sorry I did write that last quote quite quickly - obviously I didn't literally mean whoever is riding!

I have just found that coming from a background of trying to produce horses with virtually no riding facilities, having everything on site is hugely beneficial for the training of the horse to see/do something different every day... I do agree it does make my job easier and certainly is far less frustrating and stressful on a daily basis - but that in itself is a good thing for the horses.

I personally would be prepared to pay more to ensure my horse could go out every day, have the chance to practice jumping in an indoor arena before it went competing in an indoor arena for the first time, train in many different spooky surroundings without having to travel anywhere and go XC schooling at minimal cost whenever necessary, surely saving money on school/XC hire and transport?

And surely you would an advantage over someone of the same riding standard who hadn't had a chance, for example, to school regularly on a grass open space before the first event of the season?

Just an opinion...I may well be wrong... and I appreciate the experience and ability of the rider as a training rider as much as a competition rider does play a big part in this.

Like many others, I have worked so hard to fund where I currently am (renting a few boxes on a yard rather than an entire yard!) and absolutely love it :D but there is a long way to go!

Thank you for everyone's views and advice, I really appreciate it :)
 
Young but very talented 4* eventer, has done 2 Olympics on 2 different horses (doing very well both times!), based in the Cotswolds, was charging £140pw last year for competition livery...very experienced rider & absolutely charming person with a lovely yard.
 
I think the difference between full and competition livery is that sometimes the competition livery can get away with offering less smart facilities as the owners are not going to be riding themselves and wanting to use an indoor school if it is raining or want off road hacking or all want their horses exercised or ready for riding at the same time for example weekends or evenings so there is more flexibility.

I would expect that if my horse was on competition livery there would be at least two people around I would want to ensure that my horse if not going to a competition was not left alone for long days as well as people not being so tired that they can't do the job properly.

I don't think the area premium for competition livery is the same as it is for normal livery as if clients are not riding the horse themselves don't necessarily need the horse to be near where they live. TBH if someone was not interested in visiting their horses all the time then I can't see why they would not send their horse to a cheaper part of the country if they could get the same service elsewhere but cheaper because they are outside the expensive counties. You are therefore not competing just with competition yard in your area but also ones through the country which is very different from full livery which will only be competing for business with other full livery yards in the area!
 
E2012, I completely agree the facilities are a huge bonus and should, ideally, allow you to provide a better, possibly less expensive service than someone who has to pay separately. (Although schooling off site is essential, too.) If you are able to rent boxes at a rate that allows you to still charge a countrywide rate then that's brilliant. I think ESJ's point was that she could not (my experience has been similar). And that at the lower end of the market you may be outbid by people who can offer a better deal. You could argue you will produce better horses for clients in the long run but will have to prove that.

Do you have to pay for boxes you don't fill? That can be ruinous so has to be budgeted for. Do you have to cover your own horse's costs? I actually found when I first had my own place I could not afford to run one of my own and needed every box to be earning, as I was competing with people based on family farms or with parental support or similar. I could not run my business the way they did!
 
I would also say, if your selling point is you will NOT be charging fees that are standard elsewhere, make sure you promote that point. People will not necessarily do in depth research to compare prices. So if similar riders around you are charging lower rates, make sure people understand that you will be competitive in the long run.
 
The voice of bitter experience, I suspect. :D

I'd say the hardest part of running a horse business is being honest about it as a business. We all do this because we love it and horse people tend to be opportunistic (or delusional, depending on your point of view ;)) so it's easy to plan for everything going just the way we want. Most of the people I know who've lasted though (not counting people who are heavily subsidised - which is often the case even when it isn't obvious) learn to be both very conscientious, as EJS stresses, but also quite hard headed and careful with their time, energy and money.
 
My comment would be that if a business owner is paying rent or a mortgage, business costs and taxes, paying staff properly etc, etc and looking to make a living out of it, £150 a horse per week is cheap. Often yards will be relying upon unpaid labour be it working pupils, family or friends so as to be able to subsidise a lower rate than would they really should be charging if being run as a profitable business.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top