Competition nerves, and managing childs expectations..

Fiona

Fiona

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 July 2001
Messages
10,150
Location
N. Ireland
Visit site
I'd love some help from other mummies, instructors, and anyone with experience of the problem :)

Son is 6, nearly 7. Very intelligent, top 2 in class. Probably teachers pet....

He does other sports such as gymnastics and football as well as horses, but mostly at recreational level though the do the odd competition at football club, and he attended first ever gymnastics comp last week (unplaced).

He has two ponies at the moment, his first pony - bombproof, kick along type and a good jumper but will have the odd steering issue and run past a lump.... and his new one 12hh Welsh who is much better off the leg, but can be spooky and have the odd run out due to this.

We go to PC every week, and her also has been having a private lesson recently, so not doing too many competitions compared to his friends.....

However (and this is ongoing from he was off the lead rein) he has a total fit if he has a refusal or makes a mistake.

We have been lowering the expectations recently, jumping up to 70cm at home but just doing 50cm in lessons, and did the 40cm class recently at big show. Pony spooked at fence 2 and swerved out, but jumped it next time and completed clear, but he sobbed his heart out the whole way round, and was only consoled by the lovely lady on the out gate who gave him a special rosette and told him it was a prize for the 'fastest round so far..'

How do I talk to him about this???

I don't want to say it doesn't matter if he has a stop, but I don't want to say anything to make his perfectionism worse....

I do try, but obviously I'm just not getting the right words.

Or will he grow out of it??

He is fine with flatwork and dressage because its more subjective, but jumping obviously you clear it or you don't...

How do I manage his nerves, and his expectations so we can have some fun over the summer.....

Fiona
 
Does he have any famous riding hero’s?
Is it worth you tubing a load of clips of people he admires making mistakes - in the guise of it okay, you have to make mistakes to learn etc etc etc
 
I'm curious whether the tears are upset or frustration? Only because I think the approach might need to be different dependent on that.

It is interesting if say gymnastics potentially doesn't have the same effect, when you go to shows are his other PC friends there? or is it just you and him? Or is it his feeling about the pony?

With the new one particularly would he accept that he is teaching the pony how to do it (regardless of pony's history) rather than it being a competition?
 
ihatework said:
Does he have any famous riding hero’s?
Is it worth you tubing a load of clips of people he admires making mistakes - in the guise of it okay, you have to make mistakes to learn etc etc etc
Click to expand...

Good point - I've pointed out one of two mistakes from fb etc but I'll make sure to emphasize that even Pippa (he loves Pippa Funnell because of her books) makes mistakes...

Fiona
 
I don’t have any kids or have much experience with that age but is it worth telling him that he is doing a really special job and training the pony, particularly the new one.

Make a bit of a big deal about it, that he’s training it to be a brilliant jumping pony and that the shows he’s doing at the moment are to train the pony how to behave and jump at shows and it’s a really special job to do that. It might take the pressure off it being a competition and give him a focus.
 
ester said:
I'm curious whether the tears are upset or frustration? Only because I think the approach might need to be different dependent on that.

It is interesting if say gymnastics potentially doesn't have the same effect, when you go to shows are his other PC friends there? or is it just you and him? Or is it his feeling about the pony?

With the new one particularly would he accept that he is teaching the pony how to do it (regardless of pony's history) rather than it being a competition?
Click to expand...

I think gymnastics is the same as dressage - subjective rather than right or wrong....

He gets a bit upset if having a run out in a lesson, but because its a lesson I'm not immediately involved if you know what I mean.

I think its partly competitiveness (ie he's not going to win with faults) and partly frustration in that pony isn't doing what he wants which is jumping the jump...

He's never had a push button pony who jumps clear round after clear round, so its not like he's got used to winning if that makes sense.

Will certainly make the point about teaching pony how to do it..... Great suggestion :) :)

Fiona
 
Gosh - advising people on horse behaviour on a forum is difficult enough! I'm a Mum, a PC team co-ordinator and a safeguarding officer. But not a child physiologist...

It seems to me the first thing is to try to figure out what is causing the upset. He may have the words to be able to tell you - but he might not. Films like "Inside Out" can really help to give a younger child a framework to talk about emotions. He might be scared, embarrassed, frustrated... If he is gifted they are often perfectionists. Or there may be another underlying issue. If he can verbalize what the issue is you are 3/4 the way to sorting it out.

Taking part in team competition may help - if he can see others cope well with horse flavoured disappointment that can help. If he is gifted try making contact with "Potential Plus" (Used to be called NAGC) who offer support to parents of gifted children. The issue with perfectionism is something they are very aware of and I know we got help there for my daughter. Riding heros that make mistakes can help to show it happens to everyone - but can feel very artificial. A good instructor can make or break.

Your attitude matters too. (As if we didn't have enough guilt...!) I try to get parents to avoid "never mind" or "it doesn't matter" because both imply that actually it does. Find something really positive to compliment - ideally not connected to the mishap. "I liked the way you rode that turn it was so soft and in balance..." or "Your position over X jump was so good.."

Like anything parent wise - trial and error. usually more of the latter. But an open heart and a willingness to look beyond the obvious goes a long way. One mum to another... you'll get there!
 
Yes, a boy who is used to doing well is likely to have a competitive streak regardless ;)
Ah yes I forgot about gymnastics being more like dressage.

I just wonder if you changed all your language around it and tried to get away from it being a 'competition' that might help. Do you have clear round rings at most shows over there like we do? I just wonder if doing that instead for a bit with the opportunity to have another go (I mention this from personal experience, that such 'mistakes' can seem much more catastrophic when they are more final if that makes sense?) at going clear might help for a bit (our clear rounds often run a jump off for people who have had 3 clears throughout the day too).
 
ihatework said:
Does he have any famous riding hero’s?
Is it worth you tubing a load of clips of people he admires making mistakes - in the guise of it okay, you have to make mistakes to learn etc etc etc
Click to expand...

This is a lovely idea!

I am just about to venture into the competition world with my toddler, so watching with interest how's best to handle these sorts of things in future!
 
Shay said:
Your attitude matters too. (As if we didn't have enough guilt...!) I try to get parents to avoid "never mind" or "it doesn't matter" because both imply that actually it does. Find something really positive to compliment - ideally not connected to the mishap. "I liked the way you rode that turn it was so soft and in balance..." or "Your position over X jump was so good.."
Click to expand...

This!
 
ester said:
Yes, a boy who is used to doing well is likely to have a competitive streak regardless ;)
Ah yes I forgot about gymnastics being more like dressage.

I just wonder if you changed all your language around it and tried to get away from it being a 'competition' that might help. Do you have clear round rings at most shows over there like we do? I just wonder if doing that instead for a bit with the opportunity to have another go (I mention this from personal experience, that such 'mistakes' can seem much more catastrophic when they are more final if that makes sense?) at going clear might help for a bit (our clear rounds often run a jump off for people who have had 3 clears throughout the day too).
Click to expand...

Lots of low key venues, but clear round per se.....

Does everyone think it would be better going somewhere that his friends from PC aren't likely to be, we have been trying to do this, along with heading for the smaller classes....

Thank you scats - that sounds like a really good plan...

Shay - thank you, I'm sure there is an element of nerves involved, as well as frustration that pony doesn't do what he wants her to do.....

Its worth another chat though to see if he can verbalise exactly how he feels...
 
I've had this with my 2 boys who ride. Older one I've been quite stern with as I felt it was just bad sportsmanship and wanting to win too much. Now aged 12 he does little competing but enjoys his hunting and pc. He is still only really happy competing at things he can excel at like chemistry! Youngest son aged 8 is slightly autistic and has meltdowns when things don't go his way competitively at riding, cricket, sports day, board games etc. With him we try to keep exposing him to gentle defeats such as competitions at rallies and expect him to cope, which he is slowly getting better at. We strongly emphasise that no one has died, the world is still turning and it really is not a big deal. When I do take him to a competition I tend to choose one where all participants get a rosette. If he's a bit low on morale I'll go in the ring and run with him which nearly guarantees a decent round. Strangely both boys love inter pc team sj competitions where there always seems to be great camaraderie (at least in the smaller classes) and success and lack of success are shared amongst the team!
 
Clearly I am never going to win a Mum of the Year award, but my approach when my two were smaller and started riding/playing football/rowing was to set clear boundaries about the behaviour that was expected and to stick to them. I had no problem with them wanting to win, but they had to know how to behave when they won (happy but not bigheaded) or lost (maybe not so happy but focus on the good bits and learn from the rest). I'm afraid I didn't psychoanalyse them, I just told them :)

They've certainly had their ups and downs in their sports, but now they are teenagers and one is County Squad and the other an Irish junior - the ethos of sportsmanship is strong in both of them, and it started on the lead rein :)
 
Try chatting to him before each competition and setting an achievable goal for that day, such as riding really good turns into each of the fences, keeping a good canter rhythm between the fences, or something with his position. That way the actual result becomes less significant and he can feel he has achieved something regardless of his placing in the class
 
It's hard when they are small but I like the idea of thinking about it as educating the pony and so taking the focus away from being competitive. Remind him that mistakes are opportunities to learn and things would be boring if they were always easy. As an intelligent child he should be able to discuss what was good in a round and what could be improved and how to make improvments eg riding a better corner so he was straight to the fence. The "praise sandwich" is good so anything that wasn't so good is discussed between two positive things.
 
Why don't you want to tell him it doesn't matter?
It certainly isn't the end of the world! As an Infants teacher one of the best lessons that I think that *all* children should learn is that no-one can excel at everything and that every-one makes mistakes. I agree wih the approach of telling him that he is training the pony but he also needs to understand that every single one of use who rides is always learning and that when the pony/horse makes a mistake, it is probably because the rider made an error.

It is difficult for those children to whom everything seems to come easily, to learn that there is something that they are not the best at but parents need to accept that this is the case and support their children while they learn this valuable lesson.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Why don't you want to tell him it doesn't matter?
It certainly isn't the end of the world! As an Infants teacher one of the best lessons that I think that *all* children should learn is that no-one can excel at everything and that every-one makes mistakes. I agree wih the approach of telling him that he is training the pony but he also needs to understand that every single one of use who rides is always learning and that when the pony/horse makes a mistake, it is probably because the rider made an error.

It is difficult for those children to whom everything seems to come easily, to learn that there is something that they are not the best at but parents need to accept that this is the case and support their children while they learn this valuable lesson.
Click to expand...

Very wise.
 
Rowreach said:
Clearly I am never going to win a Mum of the Year award, but my approach when my two were smaller and started riding/playing football/rowing was to set clear boundaries about the behaviour that was expected and to stick to them. I had no problem with them wanting to win, but they had to know how to behave when they won (happy but not bigheaded) or lost (maybe not so happy but focus on the good bits and learn from the rest). I'm afraid I didn't psychoanalyse them, I just told them :)
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not the only one! We always said to our daughter if she couldn't behave when things went wrong then we would take her home, and we meant it. She had a bad day one day when she got eliminated in the jumping, then she didn't get placed in the riding class and when she came out of the ring she had a tantrum about it. She was meant to be doing the handy pony class next, which she had been practising for for weeks, but we said if she didn't behave she wouldn't be doing it. She didn't listen so we went home ... certainly bucked her ideas up for future outings!

I would say that if they can't cope with little mistakes (and one stop is slightly different from falling off at the first fence and hurting themselves) then they are not emotionally mature enough to be competing. And harsh as it may sound, if it was my child I would say no more competing until they were old enough to behave when things went wrong. I could understand a few tears if they fell off, or got eliminated at the first fence, but a 'total fit' for just having one stop would be unacceptable in my book.
 
Last edited:
TGM said:
I could understand a few tears if they fell off, or got eliminated at the first fence, but a 'total fit' for just having one stop would be unacceptable in my book.
Click to expand...

For me it would depend on the form of the "fit". Angry with the pony? Child needs to remember how to behave and that ponies are a privilege not a right. Upset with himself? Child needs to be supported to develop emotional maturity and understand that sometimes you have to work to get that win (even if someone else doesn't). Not competing is just avoiding the problem, really.

I would always focus on the positives, rather than trying to minimise the negatives - the rest of that round was lovely, didn't pony jump well over fence 7, you had a really nice position there! People - even adults - don't always hear the "negative" in "don't worry" - they focus on the "worry", not the "don't" - or "it doesn't matter" is often heard as "it does matter (but I'm trying to stop you crying)". Re-framing these things into positives can help.

Can you do more than one round, clear round or jump again H/C? That might help him if he can go clear second time (once pony has seen the fences and he's already done it once) to focus on the positives and how well he's training his pony?
 
KittyH said:
I've had this with my 2 boys who ride. Older one I've been quite stern with as I felt it was just bad sportsmanship and wanting to win too much. Now aged 12 he does little competing but enjoys his hunting and pc. He is still only really happy competing at things he can excel at like chemistry! Youngest son aged 8 is slightly autistic and has meltdowns when things don't go his way competitively at riding, cricket, sports day, board games etc. With him we try to keep exposing him to gentle defeats such as competitions at rallies and expect him to cope, which he is slowly getting better at. We strongly emphasise that no one has died, the world is still turning and it really is not a big deal. When I do take him to a competition I tend to choose one where all participants get a rosette. If he's a bit low on morale I'll go in the ring and run with him which nearly guarantees a decent round. Strangely both boys love inter pc team sj competitions where there always seems to be great camaraderie (at least in the smaller classes) and success and lack of success are shared amongst the team!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply :) and tips on management...

I'm sure it will get better as he gets older fingers crossed...

FIona
 
Rowreach said:
Clearly I am never going to win a Mum of the Year award, but my approach when my two were smaller and started riding/playing football/rowing was to set clear boundaries about the behaviour that was expected and to stick to them. I had no problem with them wanting to win, but they had to know how to behave when they won (happy but not bigheaded) or lost (maybe not so happy but focus on the good bits and learn from the rest). I'm afraid I didn't psychoanalyse them, I just told them :)

They've certainly had their ups and downs in their sports, but now they are teenagers and one is County Squad and the other an Irish junior - the ethos of sportsmanship is strong in both of them, and it started on the lead rein :)
Click to expand...

He is perfectly fine when taking part in his other sports, its just the riding (with me)... Hence me thinking its frustration because the pony doesn't always do what he wants..

In saying that, the pony was a wee cow last night (two really dirty stops) after being amazingly good for weeks which obviously needs worked on too... :( I wish life was simple.....

Fiona
 
hottoddy said:
Try chatting to him before each competition and setting an achievable goal for that day, such as riding really good turns into each of the fences, keeping a good canter rhythm between the fences, or something with his position. That way the actual result becomes less significant and he can feel he has achieved something regardless of his placing in the class
Click to expand...

That ties into the 'training the pony' approach... Thanks :)

Fiona
 
EventingMum said:
It's hard when they are small but I like the idea of thinking about it as educating the pony and so taking the focus away from being competitive. Remind him that mistakes are opportunities to learn and things would be boring if they were always easy. As an intelligent child he should be able to discuss what was good in a round and what could be improved and how to make improvments eg riding a better corner so he was straight to the fence. The "praise sandwich" is good so anything that wasn't so good is discussed between two positive things.
Click to expand...

My friend who is a riding instructor has mentioned the praise sandwich, but I had forgotten... Thanks :)

Fiona
 
JFTD said:
Not competing is just avoiding the problem, really.
Click to expand...

The thing is that children will repeat behaviour that benefits them. So if sobbing and having a fit get him a rosette that he otherwise wouldn't have got, he is in effect being rewarded for his behaviour (however well-meaning it was of the lady). However, if he knows that certain behaviour is likely to result in a temporary break from competitions, then there is more motivation to behave acceptably (assuming he is actually very keen to compete). As he is an intelligent lad, if he was my child, I would be telling him that competitions are a privilege that involve parents putting in a lot of time and money and should be fun for all concerned. If it stops being fun then competitions stop for a while. When they do resume, then he must behave if he wants them to continue.

But agree that concentrating on things like clear round where he can have another go, is probably a better option than competitive jumping at the moment.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
It is difficult for those children to whom everything seems to come easily, to learn that there is something that they are not the best at but parents need to accept that this is the case and support their children while they learn this valuable lesson.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm asking advice on :)

He's fine when doing dressage or gymnastics or running, its just the black and white aspect of jumping (ie you've jumped it or you haven't) that we are having bother with, and deciding whether to bite the bullet and compete more often so he gets used to clear round/not clear round, or whether to concentrate on training for a bit longer on this pony.

Pony is not straightforward, whereas a lot of his friends do have completely push button ponies in the ring and at rallies.

Fiona
 
TGM said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one! We always said to our daughter if she couldn't behave when things went wrong then we would take her home, and we meant it. She had a bad day one day when she got eliminated in the jumping, then she didn't get placed in the riding class and when she came out of the ring she had a tantrum about it. She was meant to be doing the handy pony class next, which she had been practising for for weeks, but we said if she didn't behave she wouldn't be doing it. She didn't listen so we went home ... certainly bucked her ideas up for future outings!

I would say that if they can't cope with little mistakes (and one stop is slightly different from falling off at the first fence and hurting themselves) then they are not emotionally mature enough to be competing. And harsh as it may sound, if it was my child I would say no more competing until they were old enough to behave when things went wrong. I could understand a few tears if they fell off, or got eliminated at the first fence, but a 'total fit' for just having one stop would be unacceptable in my book.
Click to expand...

I haven't had to do it this year, but he has been taken off his pony before now, and once removed from an XC lesson for having a cross strop.....

The most recent example I gave of having a stop at a show he was 'just' in floods of tears for the rest of the round.....

FIona
 
JFTD said:
For me it would depend on the form of the "fit". Angry with the pony? Child needs to remember how to behave and that ponies are a privilege not a right. Upset with himself? Child needs to be supported to develop emotional maturity and understand that sometimes you have to work to get that win (even if someone else doesn't). Not competing is just avoiding the problem, really.

I would always focus on the positives, rather than trying to minimise the negatives - the rest of that round was lovely, didn't pony jump well over fence 7, you had a really nice position there! People - even adults - don't always hear the "negative" in "don't worry" - they focus on the "worry", not the "don't" - or "it doesn't matter" is often heard as "it does matter (but I'm trying to stop you crying)". Re-framing these things into positives can help.

Can you do more than one round, clear round or jump again H/C? That might help him if he can go clear second time (once pony has seen the fences and he's already done it once) to focus on the positives and how well he's training his pony?
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

In the past he's been angry with pony (and hence pony has been put away), but most recent example he was just so upset as in lots of tears....

Another example a couple of months back (because in this case it was a dirty stop) he was squealing as well as crying, but that was understandable because he was frightened....
 
TGM said:
The thing is that children will repeat behaviour that benefits them. So if sobbing and having a fit get him a rosette that he otherwise wouldn't have got, he is in effect being rewarded for his behaviour (however well-meaning it was of the lady). However, if he knows that certain behaviour is likely to result in a temporary break from competitions, then there is more motivation to behave acceptably (assuming he is actually very keen to compete). As he is an intelligent lad, if he was my child, I would be telling him that competitions are a privilege that involve parents putting in a lot of time and money and should be fun for all concerned. If it stops being fun then competitions stop for a while. When they do resume, then he must behave if he wants them to continue.

But agree that concentrating on things like clear round where he can have another go, is probably a better option than competitive jumping at the moment.
Click to expand...

I didn't expect him to get a rosette, but as the ring was being run by a local PC and it was the first and smallest class, they had obviously decided that a special rosette for everyone was a good idea.

We don't have any clear round locally, but some of the local SJ will allow a second round HC I'm sure....

He has done well on occasion too, even doing against the clock when we ended up at a local venue on their finals night, and he accepted that the kids who went faster than he did were better placed..... Its not all refusals, and crying thankfully....

Fiona
 
Not a parent, but I definitely have experienced the frustration/beating myself up mucking it up on the "big day" and he sounds like the sort of kid who finds stuff easy at school, so when theres something he isn't doing so well at it can be a bit of a shock finding out that maybe he might have to work harder at something!
Equally when it came to horses, Im not hugely competitive when it comes to horses, but I show my dog, and if i get the handling wrong or she's excitable I know I'm beating myself up because I'm not doing the dog justice.
I agree with those saying treat it as he's developing the pony, maybe take a step down, do clinics and dressage and such so that he can see improvement in himself and the pony overall and one little stop at a show doesn't seem like a big deal when they've made progress outside of the show. The youtuber Olivia Towers Dressage has this attitude, she has a good attitude, im not sure how well it will work on a young kid though!
Alternatively, perhaps competing LOADS ( if you can afford) like little shows will make it seem like run of the mill so that he doesn't take it so hard when one day he might be having an off day because he knows he'll have another chance shortly?
 
I will say in response to some comments that stopping me doing things because I got upset about them only ever made me feel a sense of deep injustice.
I quite rapidly stopped being upset about as much as I could because being upset was deemed wrong, and really that's not such a great method either :p.

Which is I guess why I asked what the source of the tears were.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top