Completely traumatised, someone help

[My equine life]

My very elderly 11hh pony was pts yesturday with the injection as she’d gone very wobbly in the back end- neurological we think and the situation has traumatised me.

She was given sedation first (I didn’t think she was that sleepy)

Then a clear syringe which took her ages to go down after which she got back up. He followed back up with 3 more yellow syringes

We had flipping over, trying to get back up and all sorts and I am severely traumatised.

He then left when he thought she’d gone but we felt a heart beat and blinking.

I sat with her till the vet got back and told her to let go and she did just as he was arriving but he put some more straught into her heart to be sure.

I think my main questions are what solutions was she administered and was this a really stressful painful situation or was she fairly unaware of what was going on. I feel like she lost all trust in me in those final moments and must hate me- I’m severely traumatised.

Someone please help

 

[My equine life]

She even remained standing for a while whilst he went to get another syringe and pricked her ears when one of the other horses called

 

[Clodagh]

With the injection, if their circulatory system is closing down it doesn’t get taken round the body so efficiently.
I’m sorry you had to witness that. All I can say is, with the amount she had in her, she would not have been suffering. Truly horrible for you though.

 

[Rowreach]

Unfortunately this is why I recommend that owners are not present when horses are pts by injection, as it is not uncommon for this to happen.

I am very sorry that you had this experience though, it is not nice to witness and the vet should not have left without ensuring she had gone. However as Clodagh says, your pony won't have known much about it once she was down.

 

[Fanatical]

Horses with neurological issues can always be a bit more unpredictable when PTS by injection. I was not allowed to hold one of mine who had suspected neurological issues for this reason.
Sorry you had to go through witnessing it but well done for doing the right thing by your pony. I am sure it was more traumatic for you than the pony.

 

[ycbm]

I'm so sorry, I have had one similar experience when a horse got up after dropping. I have to be honest here and say this will never leave you.

But you MUST understand that this is not your fault, that you did nothing wrong, that you made the right decision, that it was probably the fact that she was so ill that made the drugs inefficient and console yourself with believing that she will have known little of what was going on, and nothing after she was down and not getting up.

Please be gentle with yourself.
.

 

[dorsetladette]

I'm really sorry to hear you had to witness that.

I have had a little welsh mare do similar. Her back end was starting to go and she wobbled every now and then walking across the field. We gave her the summer and PTS in the autumn. All planned as best we could etc etc. I spoke with the vet before the event and told them she often needed 2 or 3 lots of sedation to do her teeth so please be generous with it so she is very sleepy.
Little mare didn't drop easily and tried to get up after she was down. It's not nice to watch even when you know you have made the right decision.

Be kind to your self! As others have said she wouldn't have known much of what was going on due to all the drugs in her system.

 

[SEL]

I'm so sorry that happened to you - I've had / seen many PTS by lethal injection and only one took a while (colic) but the vet was all over that and didn't leave until she was absolutely sure the mare had gone.

I echo YCBM in that your pony wouldn't have known what was happening and is now thankfully at peace.

**hugs**

 

[Fjord]

I am so, so sorry you had to witness this. No useful comment from me, just a big hug.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have seen three very difficult PTS by injection the first was totally traumatic by childhood horse it was terrible .
The second was up and over backwards and as was the third .
H went by injection it was very gentle , sedation a little more sedation then the nasty stuff and he just sank to the ground I left at that point .
It’s a risk with injections I have seen loads of Pts , both ways I would chose shooting every time .

 

[Goldenstar]

The first one I saw affected me really badly .
I could not get it out of my head .
When I read this I remembered it but have not thought of it for years but I remember the horse often and fondly .
I think you need time don’t dwell on it .
Hard I know but have a huge hug .

 

[Rumtytum]

Nothing to offer, just a big virtual hug

 

[scats]

I’m so sorry that you had to experience this. But remember that you were doing what you thought best. The vet really shouldn’t have left until they were sure the heart had stopped but I think neurological problem horses can be a bit trickier with regards the reaction to the drugs.

I’ve had 5 put to sleep via injection and all were absolutely fine, so my experience has been very different. One ‘ran’ on the floor, but you could tell he had no awareness of what was going on. The others went very quickly.

Big hugs x

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I am so sorry you had to witness that. I understand that it is fairly common and cannot be predicted, but the times I have used that method it has been without incident thankfully. I have witnessed a friend's one that was similar to how you describe your experience, but I doubt very much her horse or yours would have been as aware as you might fear. You have obviously done the right thing by your pony and please try not to beat yourself up.

 

[My equine life]

Thank you so much for your kind messages and hugs everyone. All ponies are so precious but especially our childhood ones. I have had her since I was 4 (I’m 20 now) and she has been with me through all my exams, boy problems, parents divorce… EVERYTHING. Saying goodbye is hard enough- it didn’t need to go like that.

I hope you are all right in that she wasn’t aware as it’s really haunting me.

Side note- my grandparents are furious with the situation (this was done at uni so they weren’t with me but they are aware of what happened). But they are also furious as the vet left the glass vile of lethal injection in a feild with horses (she was pts in the feild so my tb could say goodbye). We returned it when he came back.

 

[paddi22]

I had the exact same thing happen with a mini. it was horrific to watch and very traumatic, but time makes it easier and you eventually process it. the vet said she had so much stuff in her she wouldn't have felt/been aware of what was going on at all. a lot of the reactions are the body reacting automatically and that the pony isn't aware/in control of them. what you were watching was happening to the body and was involuntary movement. your much-loved pony wasn't 'there'. another time, we also had a horse that we thought had passed, and it managed to stand up and walk a few steps, but there was no version of my 'horse' left, it was just involuntary automatic movement. the body can do strange things at times. You did the best you could, sometimes things just don't go the way they should, but your pony would have known it was loved and cared for until the the end of its consciousness.

 

[94lunagem]

She was totally unaware what was happening, her reactions were involuntary and what she would have known is that you were with her in her final moments. Which is a credit to you in difficult circumstances. Injection isn’t fool proof, I still prefer it over other methods but that isn’t what this thread is about.

I have had two PTS by injection, both big lads and my horse of a lifetime who had been with me 22 years and I’d grown up with too needed more “topping up” once down than I’d expected. I found it traumatising at the time, and for a good time after, but what stays with me a few years on isn’t the act itself anymore but the overall hole left behind. My first one went peacefully but I remember asking the vet if he could close his eye, I didn’t know beforehand they stay open. It sounds trivial but I found that really difficult.

You’ll always carry yesterday with you but I promise it does ease. Be kind to yourself, let yourself be sad, and angry, but be proud of how much love you had to give.

I hope you don’t have to go through anything similar again but if it were me I would also want a different vet if there were a next time. Rationally your little mares response was nothing to do with him personally, but irrationally I still wouldn’t want him back.

 

[meandmyself]

Please talk to someone in real life. You did nothing wrong and it would have been much worse for you than her - any horse can have a paradoxical reaction to sedation which is what it would have been. I doubt very much she would have known anything about it.

 

[BMA2]

I have seen three very difficult PTS by injection the first was totally traumatic by childhood horse it was terrible .
The second was up and over backwards and as was the third .
H went by injection it was very gentle , sedation a little more sedation then the nasty stuff and he just sank to the ground I left at that point .
It’s a risk with injections I have seen loads of Pts , both ways I would chose shooting every time .

I am also 100% shooting

So sorry you had to see that...but like the others say it will gave been so stressful for you but her body was doing things that I'm sure her head was unaware off xx

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am sorry that you had to witness that. I certainly wouldn't have that vet again for any reason. But your pony wouldn't be aware of what was going on. Like GS, after a couple of 'unfortunate' pts by injection, I always prefer to have them shot

 

[Clodagh]

I’m not sure that this is the thread for alternatives.
No I’m not forum God , just being thoughtful.

 

[southerncomfort]

Another huge hug from me.

I've had a few PTS, and all were textbook apart from the last one. She took a few minutes to go, vet was just getting a second lot when she finally passed.

It was very upsetting at the time. I did a lot of beating myself up thinking that she hadn't been ready to go.

But looking back it was absolutely the only kind option, and the vet was 100% in agreement.

It's true what everyone else says above, they really won't know anything about it, it's just us owners that are left traumatised.

 

[ycbm]

I’m not sure that this is the thread for alternatives.
No I’m not forum God , just being thoughtful.

I agree and I'll add to this, my dreadful experience WAS the alternative, I can still see that horse stand back up on his front legs now, years and years later.
.

 

[mle22]

I have experienced similar, OP, and it is very traumatising. It was years ago now and it is still very painful to think about. It never totally goes away. I was never able to ‘forgive’ the vet, even though I do realise it probably wasn’t her fault. I haven’t used her for a horse since. All I can say is be kind to yourself and know that it was not your fault and would have been much worse for you to watch than for your much loved pony who would have been unaware.

 

[honetpot]

Thinking about it I wonder if sedation is useful, if the horse is relaxed the heart beat would be slower. My TB was PTS by injection, via a long catheter, one huge injection, and he droped like he had been shot. The last one had colic and was obviously in shock and staggered, but again just one large injection, the one before a neuro issue so it took a while to work, but he just laid down.
I am really sorry for you it is hard to get over that is why I prefer them being shot, but I am sure they will have known nothing about it.

 

[Orangehorse]

OP, please accept a big hug. I am nearly in tears over that, what a terrible experience. But I don't expect you pony was aware, and she passed peacefully in the end.

I wouldn't have that vet back again, he should have listened for the heartbeat, that was definitely a mistake.

I thought long and hard about mine, having always had ponies shot, but he was inclined to throw his head up sometimes so I opted for the injection. It was still very upsetting and you have to wait for them to go down, so it is still awful. My vet closed his eyes and listened to the heartbeat to make sure he had gone.

Look after yourself, you certainly did all you could to let your pony go peacefully.

 

[Birker2020]

I had a 10yr old horse put down with lethal injection -I was not present as the horse had wobblers and it was considered too dangerous as he was totally uncoordinated in his movements although I was in the waiting room at the hospital whilst it was carried out. I elected to see his body after he was put down but was not warned about any reflex movements or sounds and I found the whole experience terribly distressing to the point that it plunged me into a depression and took me a long time to get over his death. I was assured that the animal was dead but it was horrific seeing his tummy and flank flickering and hear him grunting. The first grunt coincided with my hand touching his neck as I crouched down to stroke him and this totally freaked me out as I believed he knew I was there and he was trying to communicate with me. In the end I wrote to Horse & Rider magazine and they did a massive three page reply to me about this and explained that this grunting is called agonal gasping and is nothing to do with 'agony' in the sense we know it. It is merely a reflex action of the body shutting down and the air releasing from the lungs and vocal cords. The horse is unconscious and out of pain and totally unaware of what has happened to it. Sometimes the horse will make paddling movements with its legs.

Apparently this can take place up to ten minutes after death. I would never ever see my horse again so soon after death, I would wait for a while until any danger of agonal reflexes had stopped. This is what we did with Bailey who I lost after 17yrs.

Apparently it can (in some circumstances) take up to 30 seconds for a horse to sink to the floor when injected, and can take up to two minutes for its heart to stop beating.

Please don't beat yourself up about what you saw. Your girl wasn't suffering; like others have said it's likely to be due to a sluggish circulatory system. I'm sorry you had to witness this. It's bizarre that when you lose an animal despite having years and years of cherished happy memories, we often torture ourselves with the last few minutes but in time that will be replaced with happier memories. Take care x

Edited to say when you get the invoice from the vet it will itemise the drugs used. It is normally somulose I think that they use.

 

[My equine life]

I had a 10yr old horse put down with lethal injection -I was not present as the horse had wobblers and it was considered too dangerous as he was totally uncoordinated in his movements although I was in the waiting room at the hospital whilst it was carried out. I elected to see his body after he was put down but was not warned about any reflex movements or sounds and I found the whole experience terribly distressing to the point that it plunged me into a depression and took me a long time to get over his death. I was assured that the animal was dead but it was horrific seeing his tummy and flank flickering and hear him grunting. The first grunt coincided with my hand touching his neck as I crouched down to stroke him and this totally freaked me out as I believed he knew I was there and he was trying to communicate with me. In the end I wrote to Horse & Rider magazine and they did a massive three page reply to me about this and explained that this grunting is called agonal gasping and is nothing to do with 'agony' in the sense we know it. It is merely a reflex action of the body shutting down and the air releasing from the lungs and vocal cords. The horse is unconscious and out of pain and totally unaware of what has happened to it. Sometimes the horse will make paddling movements with its legs.

Apparently this can take place up to ten minutes after death. I would never ever see my horse again so soon after death, I would wait for a while until any danger of agonal reflexes had stopped. This is what we did with Bailey who I lost after 17yrs.

Apparently it can (in some circumstances) take up to 30 seconds for a horse to sink to the floor when injected, and can take up to two minutes for its heart to stop beating.

Please don't beat yourself up about what you saw. Your girl wasn't suffering; like others have said it's likely to be due to a sluggish circulatory system. I'm sorry you had to witness this. It's bizarre that when you lose an animal despite having years and years of cherished happy memories, we often torture ourselves with the last few minutes but in time that will be replaced with happier memories. Take care x

Edited to say when you get the invoice from the vet it will itemise the drugs used. It is normally somulose I think that they use.

It took her ages to go down. The rearing over backwards, standing back up, ears forward when other horses called. I find it all so horrific. Maybe it’s the case more often than we realise because many of us understandably can’t be there to witness it. But it just seems such a cruel ending and I am really terrorising myself for it. Xxxx

 

[BBP]

I’m so sorry OP. Both for your loss and for what you had to experience. I can’t even imagine what you are going through.

My vet told me that if their cardiovascular system is compromised such as through heart disease it can take them longer to respond to the medication. The drug given after the sedative is a major overdose of anaesthetic. It causes a loss of consciousness first by shutting down the cerebral cortex and then as the overdose effect hits rather than just an anaesthetic effect it will shut down the respiratory system and then cause cardiac arrest and death (if I am wrong I hope someone will correct me). In some cases a second dose is required e.g if the circulation is sluggish or sedation has caused a drop in blood pressure as the drug has to travel through the vein back to the heart and on to the brain. So like at a hospital you can have anaesthetic but your heart is still beating, you don’t feel anything, your consciousness has gone. I would hazard a guess that your lovely pony’s circulation was poor so she didn’t get the full ‘hit’ of anaesthetic immediately but slowly and so the vet had to push more through to get the right effect. But because her neurological system was starting to shut down it was sending all sorts of weird signals to her body, without her conscious mind giving it permission. We had similar with an elderly cat needed a second dose and took probably 10mins, but the vet assured me that it was all unconscious rather than conscious movement. In human lethal injections it can take 10 minutes for the subject to finally pass away, but loss of consciousness should be immediate.

Your vet leaving whilst there was still a blink reflex and heartbeat was horrendous of them.

I don’t know whether I should write the next bit as I’m not sure if it will be helpful or not, but for me it helps me to sometimes remind themselves of what death is like in the wild. It isn’t peaceful or dignified, it is often brutal and prolonged, with no anaesthetic or sedative. Even what happened to your pony whilst appearing horrific for you would have been merciful compared to what a wild horse would have to endure. I am sure she wouldn’t have felt any pain or had awareness. You did what was right for her, especially if her cardiovascular system was poor.

Please look after yourself and make sure you have people with you at your uni that you can really turn to. The BHS Friends at the End can also support you.

 

[My equine life]

Forgot to say - it was about 30 mins for her to go. And like I said in one of my reply’s - standing and pricking her ears to other horses calling. Surely she was in agony or do you guys still think not? It’s so unbelievably traumatising to think she was in so much agony and fear x