Concern for barefoot horses

[cptrayes]

OK, this might be hijacking a bit, but this thread seems to be gathering together people who will know the answer to my question. My horse is shod with bar shoes in front and lateral extensions behind.
The farrier says she has thin soles but from reading some of the other threads that were linked to this one it seems that sole thickness is not a conformation thing so much as how much callus the farrier trims off in preparation for shoeing. Is that correct?
I am thinking about trying my horse without hind shoes this winter. Is there anything I can do to help her? She will be stabled at night and turned out and ridden every day (can't not move due to arthritis). She is already on a laminitic diet. I read in cptrayes' posts that magnesium helps which is in the balancer that I feed. Is there anything else that I should do? I figure if it doesn't work they can always go back on, but my shoeing is getting more and more remedial and ridiculous...

Can I suggest that you start another thread? You'll get lost in this one I think. There won't be 25 grams of magnesium oxide in your balancer and that's what you should feed. Your mare may have thin soles "naturally" but they are unlikely to get much thicker in bar shoes and they certainly will if you take the shoes off, but it will need care for her not to be sore. You need eyes on the ground, please try and find yourself someone who has rehabbed horses like yours to help you.

 

[YorksG]

But sadly the choice of 'barefoot' trimmers is even more of a lottery, as I have posted several times on this thiread, they are not regulated, their training is not regulated etc etc I feel that the effort used in promoting this type of hoof care would be better used in promoting the registration and regulation of the practitionors. I do still feel that the main issue with shod or unshod horses, whether with hoof care, tooth care, vetinary care, saddlery etc etc is the lack of knowlege and sadly the lack of interest taken by the owners in ensuring that the horse receives the best care available.

 

[cptrayes]

Barefoot trimmers may or may not be charlatans, they do not have to belong to any regulatory body, there is no one regulatory body, they do not have protected title, they do not have externaly vallidated training courses. I am not suggesting that they go into reverse, merely that they should be subjected to the above, thus providing a reasonably standardised service, with a properly published code of conduct across all their practitioners, protected title so that it is not possible for anyone without correct training being able to set up in business

Do you speak for the whole of Yorkshire? It's a big county!

Actually I think I probably was wrong, geography not being my strong point. The person who sold my friends a badly shod mare and apologised for not being able to get a decent farrier was possibly from Northumberland, now I come to think of it.

 

[cptrayes]

But sadly the choice of 'barefoot' trimmers is even more of a lottery, as I have posted several times on this thiread, they are not regulated, their training is not regulated etc etc I feel that the effort used in promoting this type of hoof care would be better used in promoting the registration and regulation of the practitionors. I do still feel that the main issue with shod or unshod horses, whether with hoof care, tooth care, vetinary care, saddlery etc etc is the lack of knowlege and sadly the lack of interest taken by the owners in ensuring that the horse receives the best care available.

You and I will have to disagree on that one. I see no more harm being done to horses by trimmers than is being done by farriers. And at least with a trimmer the horse has the chance to put his foot right for himself, as they often do within a day or two of anyone making a mistake with a trim. And I see owners of barefoot horses PASSIONATELY interested in the welfare of their horses to the extent that they are routinely abused for it in this forum.


We have already agreed that the regulation is not good enough and this is the third time on this thread alone that you have repeated it. WE AGREE, so can we stop banging on and on about it now? There is no solution because no-one will pay to regulate it. Actually there is a solution and that is to improve the training of farriers so that they can ALL be proactive about keeping horses out of shoes. As soon as that happens there will be no trimming "profession" left.

This is entirely in the hands of the Farriery profession. When the governing body shows an active interest in finding out why untrained numpties like me can

-take a horse who a newly qualified and a 30 year experienced farrier told me would NEVER work without shoes and event it affiliated nine months later and still have it sound after six years,
- take a navicular horse failed by remedial farriery and medication and due to be put to sleep 24 hours later and have it sound in 11 weeks and sound for a full year in full work since

THEN they can put what we know into their curriculum and THEN all their members will have the all-round training that they profess to have about hoof health (instead of the current minority) and THEN no-one will use an unregulated trimmer and this problem will disappear.

 

[YorksG]

Barefoot trimmers may or may not be charlatans, they do not have to belong to any regulatory body, there is no one regulatory body, they do not have protected title, they do not have externaly vallidated training courses. I am not suggesting that they go into reverse, merely that they should be subjected to the above, thus providing a reasonably standardised service, with a properly published code of conduct across all their practitioners, protected title so that it is not possible for anyone without correct training being able to set up in business

Do you speak for the whole of Yorkshire? It's a big county!

Actually I think I probably was wrong, geography not being my strong point. The person who sold my friends a badly shod mare and apologised for not being able to get a decent farrier was possibly from Northumberland, now I come to think of it.

How does this fit the post you quoted?
No I wasn't speaking for the whole of Yorkshire, you stated that it was difficult to get a good farrier in large parts of the county, it is not so in my part of the county, mind you I have absolutely no idea of how difficult it is to find a good farrier in Northumberlan, nor did I ever suggest I did!
__________________

 

[YorksG]

Most regulatory bodies are paid for by the people who belong to them, that is what the registration fees are for! That is why it is in the best interests of those who are registered that those who are not up to the mark are not allowed to remain registered. Agreeing with something, but then dismissing it as not possible amd the fault of others is a little dissengenuous imo

 

[Chestnuttymare]

Why would you bother going to another farrier when one has already told you to put your horse to sleep, and it is the trimming organisations who are proving how incredibly succesful barefoot rehabs are? Wouldn't you go to the people who have made the discovery and put it into practice?

Why would you risk another farrier when your current one takes off sole callous and leaves your horse sore every trim? The next one might do the same. Why not just go to the people, trimmers, who have been taught that sole callous should be removed only in very rare circumstances?

You are lucky with your farrier. Other people including me have different stories, and very recent ones including a farrier at a top equine hospital, who couldn't spot a poor (farrier) barefoot trim that was under his nose. Until more farrier apprentices train with masters who have hardworking barefoot horses on their books, the use of a farrier for trimming a barefoot horse will continue to be a lottery. The quality of the training to work barefoot is currently wholly dependent on what the master has on his books. That should change and trimming/nutrition/conditioning for barefoot work should be fully included in the curriculum instead a lottery of who you train with.

because if someone other than a vet tells me to pts then I am going to look for a second opinion and if it is a matter of life and death I would be going to someone with a professional qualification. i don't think there is enough regulation in place with trimmers for me to trust the life of my horse with one.

Because like in every profession, there are good and bad, just because this one is bad I wouldn't not go to another. Just like if my vet wasn't good, i would go to another and not go to someone who may only have a fraction of the training the original bad one had. What comeback would you have if if the trimmer got it wrong, like i said earlier, i don't think the police would be too interested.

I am lucky with my farrier, but so are most people I know. I saw the work of a supposedly well trained trimmer not too long ago and the poor pony was pretty lame afterwards. This is one who has been spoken about in a good light by other trimmers. I am not disputing all of what you say but as for the training being a lottery, how would i know if a 'trimmer' had been trained properly and not just been on a few courses. He doesn't have to be a member of a pro body and could be lying about his credentials. If it was a last resort and my horse was to be pts and no vet or farrier could save her then I wouldn't hesitate of course and would be happy to eat my words.

 

[cptrayes]

Oh gawd this is all such pointless repetition I'm losing the will to live

I couldn't personally give a damn what training a trimmer has. I have none myself and my horses are grand on their feet.

People just find yourself someone who has plenty of horses with no shoes on which are sound and happy on all surfaces in hard work and you've found a good trimmer, farrier or not. Treasure them, they are worth their weight in gold.

 

[intouch]

In fact the main UK barefoot trimming training groups have been working with LANTRA to have National Occupational Standards in place for their members, wheels move slowly but it is in their interests to make sure any "charlatans" out there have nowhere to hide.

I would also be very concerned about any horse who suffered at the hands of a trimmer - just as I am concerned about the bilaterly lame navicular horse we went to see recently who was shod with heartbar shoes by a renouned local farrier and pronounced ready for work.

 

[cptrayes]

because if someone other than a vet tells me to pts then I am going to look for a second opinion and if it is a matter of life and death I would be going to someone with a professional qualification. .

It is the vets and farriers telling people that these horses cannot be saved and recommending retirement or euthenasia.

It is the unregulated trimmers who are routinely returning them to full work after they have been condemned by the professionals.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

Oh gawd this is all such pointless repetition I'm losing the will to live

I couldn't personally give a damn what training a trimmer has. I have none myself and my horses are grand on their feet.

People just find yourself someone who has plenty of horses with no shoes on which are sound and happy on all surfaces in hard work and you've found a good trimmer, farrier or not. Treasure them, they are worth their weight in gold.

PMSL How can you not give a damn about the training a trimmer has or hasn't got, yet go on about farriers needing to be better trained. priceless.

How do you know that many vets or farriers haven't suggested removing shoes for treatment of navicular.

 

[YorksG]

PMSL How can you not give a damn about the training a trimmer has or hasn't got, yet go on about farriers needing to be better trained. priceless.

How do you know that many vets or farriers haven't suggested removing shoes for treatment of navicular.

Couldn't agree more chesnuttymare, talk about double standards! I have no issue with horses not wearing shoes (shock horror we have had horses with no shoes on, in work!) I do have an issue with people selling a service with no possible come back if they fail to do the job properly, and with none regulated training (yes I said it again! )

 

[Pale Rider]

It is the vets and farriers telling people that these horses cannot be saved and recommending retirement or euthenasia.

It is the unregulated trimmers who are routinely returning them to full work after they have been condemned by the professionals.

Couldn't agree more with this.

All this tosh about Regulatory Bodies, anyone ever tried reporting someone, they just don't want to know.

The BHS approve yards which are rubbish.

The Worshipful Company of Whatever, have their heads in the sand and won't drag themselves into the 21st C.

We go round and round on this forum, no matter how much sense it makes, or how much evidence you put up, how many navic. or chronically lame horses recover through getting rid of shoes and going properly barefoot, still these Luddite, ignoramuses trot out the same rubbish.

Rant over.

 

[cptrayes]

PMSL How can you not give a damn about the training a trimmer has or hasn't got, yet go on about farriers needing to be better trained. priceless.

So glad to have given you some amusement. I could not give a damn if a farrier has no training at all if the horses are sound. The problem is that they DO have training - to fit shoes. And then they fit shoes. And if they don't fit shoes, many of them trim barefoot horses as if they were about to fit a shoe, and sore it for several days. And very few of them know anything about how to adjust nutrition and management to bring a footie horse sound. They just shoe them. I would prefer farriers to have no trimmer training at all, than to think that their training equips them for managing hardworking barefoot horses when, unless they are lucky enough to train with a master who has them on his books, it does not.

How do you know that many vets or farriers haven't suggested removing shoes for treatment of navicular.

I don't. But I do know how many horses are being condemned to death or retirement by farriers and vets because they are still lame after meds and remedial shoes, without even thinking of a barefoot rehab - TOO MANY, including my friend's horse two weeks ago, by a top training equine hospital and their resident farrier, no less!

 

[Natch]

The professional organisation thing really fascinates me. I see the benefits of having one, and I see the drawbacks for this particular field, and why there currently isn't one (for barefoot trimmers). The simple fact as far as I understand it, is that different barefoot "gurus" have different opinions on how the foot should function and therefore how it should be trimmed. Farriery doesn't seem to have this problem to that extent, and when you look into why, the answer seems to be that we have hardly any real scientific knowledge of what is an incredibly complicated part of the horse's body. It is coming, but at the present moment to generalise enormously (sorry!), farriery appears to accept what has been known/believed over the long term, whereas different schools of barefoot forget that, and cling to different more recent studies. It is the marrying of the huge wealth of knowledge together which is hugely difficult but I believe should be done for our horses' benefit.

Throughout all of this and in times of great change, individuals just have to do what we (should!) have always done, and weigh it all up to make your own decision on who to use in the best interests of your horse.

 

[YorksG]

Couldn't agree more with this.

All this tosh about Regulatory Bodies, anyone ever tried reporting someone, they just don't want to know.

The BHS approve yards which are rubbish.

The Worshipful Company of Whatever, have their heads in the sand and won't drag themselves into the 21st C.

We go round and round on this forum, no matter how much sense it makes, or how much evidence you put up, how many navic. or chronically lame horses recover through getting rid of shoes and going properly barefoot, still these Luddite, ignoramuses trot out the same rubbish.

Rant over.

Regulatory bodies do sevre a purpose, including publishing the findings of their disciplinary hearings.
This thread has been running for some time, with disagreements, but until this point, no personal abuse, congratulations Palerider, you have managed to derail the thread and quite probably put off posters who do not wish to debate with people who cannot manage coherent argument without personal comments. Please do post the links to the peer reviewed published evidence, rather than the occasional annecdotes which we are regularly treated to.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I am unable to get a UK [Rockley] trained trimmer to do my horse.
The American organisation seems to have one person who does everything, mostly collecting money and training people to do something called "natural", apparently mustang horses running on the plains of the US are to be emulated by all other horses in the world. I contacted someone who does this type of trimming, but frankly I thought the website he directed me to consisted of waffle that I could have written myself, if only I could be bothered, there was no decent photos of the before and after type, and one that was shown, I felt that the trim consisted of removing the sole callus, and some of the surface of the frog, followed by an aggressive rasping round the edges [the horse needed trimmed like this every four weeks apparently].
I am forced to continue with my own farrier who has a rather fixed attitude, he prefers to do his own thing, and wait for the hoof to to grow long before trimming, which I feel is not logical, but he tells me he has been doing the job for 20 years, from that I assume he will not be changing, he refuses to read Feet First, as does my YO. I am now rasping the edges of my horse to prevent chipping, and hopefully this will also prevent long toe.
I seem to be in an impass, the only option is to do the UK course myself, but frankly I really don't particularly want to get so involved.

 

[Nocturnal]

I can see both sides to this, but for my part, I use a farrier (I have to as my horse is only unshod behind). But if I were to take his fronts off, I'd still use my farrier. The reason simply being that he's shown no inclination to trim the sole or frog of an unshod horse, and has never made a horse footy (that I'm aware of!). I think he's secretly a bit miffed that my horses bare feet seem to trim themselves though - all he has to do is smooth out chips. But hopefully seeing the change that's occurring in the unshod working feet will pique his interest... It certainly has mine .

 

[Tinypony]

I am unable to get a UK [Rockley] trained trimmer to do my horse.
The American organisation seems to have one person who does everything, mostly collecting money and training people to do something called "natural", apparently mustang horses running on the plains of the US are to be emulated by all other horses in the world. I contacted someone who does this type of trimming, but frankly I thought the website he directed me to consisted of waffle that I could have written myself, if only I could be bothered, there was no decent photos of the before and after type, and one that was shown, I felt that the trim consisted of removing the sole callus, and some of the surface of the frog, followed by an aggressive rasping round the edges [the horse needed trimmed like this every four weeks apparently].
I am forced to continue with my own farrier who has a rather fixed attitude, he prefers to do his own thing, and wait for the hoof to to grow long before trimming, which I feel is not logical, but he tells me he has been doing the job for 20 years, from that I assume he will not be changing, he refuses to read Feet First, as does my YO. I am now rasping the edges of my horse to prevent chipping, and hopefully this will also prevent long toe.
I seem to be in an impass, the only option is to do the UK course myself, but frankly I really don't particularly want to get so involved.

Mrs D, I've ended up involved, in spite of a bad back and RSI. I have my rasp and I just tidy one horse in a day, sometimes just two hooves at a time. I have found a fantastic trimmer, who has transformed not only all 3 sets of hooves, but also the way my lot are moving. One horse in particular looks like a different animal, so much improved. Unfortunately, the trimmer lives a long way from me so can't visit as regularly as I'd like. Therefore I've jumped in, put my money where my mouth is, and I'm religiously following her instructions and tidying between visits. If you make it a routine to always look at how the hooves are going when you have the horse in, it's not too bad. Just to odd swipe of the rasp keeps things tidy. I've heard nothing but good about Trevor Jones's introduction courses and plan to get on one when funds allow, but a good trimmer will be able to help owners to maintain under supervision.

 

[amandap]

You have different "schools" of training but I am sure someone else with more knowledge than me can tell you all about it even though I know some differences as my friend uses an EP (equine podiatric) and not a "barefoot trimmer"

Most of the modern 'schools' of trimming have as their motto 'Do no harm'.
My understanding is trimming should never invade live sole and certainly never remove enough sole to cause bleeding. I believe making a horse more sore is counter productive anyway, as good movement is vital in building a good strong hoof. Pads and or boots should be used on any surfaces where a horse may be sore, or horses should be in an environment where they are comfortable. Horses should not be left to hobble around. Of course horses in severe laminitis etc. may not get enough relief from good support in acute stages but generally all should be done to keep horses comfortable as far as possible all the time.

I've come to believe that trimming can only assist horses improve the real work is with the owners to look to management,exercise and diet etc. I also believe that trimming should also listen to the horse and trim according to that individual rather than trim to a model of what a hoof should be.

I witnessed an invasive trim recently and horses were made sore to achieve the desired shape that should produce the desired function to assist growth of a good hoof. This is a Vets teachings so not something dreamed up by a rogue trimmer. I expect some can guess who this might be.

Removing 'live' sole is it seems the one thing done by Trimmers and Farriers that makes horses sore along with imposing our idea of balance on a hoof when the horse has adjusted in it's body to the balance it has.

I believe all owners should learn all they can so they are in a better position to make informed choices and advice from experience peeps is to always get references and if possible speak to other clients before making a decision about employing anyone.

Pete Ramey is an easily accessible (and to understand) first port of call imo on the learning journey. His DVD series 'Under the horse' I highly recommend but it is pricey. His book 'Making Natural Hoof care work for you' is another goody but do look up the changes since publication in the articles section on his web site since he wrote the book.Do learn from many though.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/

Those with more engineering or mathematical minds might find K.C. La Pierre's work more attractive as a first post of call.

Also Jaime Jackson's book 'The Natural Horse' is still a good one for an understanding of where the modern B/F movement comes from fundamentally.

 

[Wagtail]

I don't know much about barefoot trimming but from what I have seen, I don't agree with it. I know somebody who uses one and their horses are very foot sore all of the time, barely able to walk across stones and yesterday the barefoot trimmer made one of them bleed. IMO this is barbaric and I feel sorry for the poor horses.

What is everybody else's opinion on barefoot trimming?

That is quite a sweeping statement to make. It all depends on the horse and the type of trimming. There are undoubtably some trimming methods that take far too much off IMO and often leave horses hopping lame. However, there are some very good BFTs around and they have very good results. I do think you should take the type of horse and their conformation/strength of hooves into account before embarking on bare foot trimming. Even with good candidates it often takes weeks or even months for the hooves to 'settle' and for the horse to be comfortable. It is not something I would choose myself as I have thoroughbreds and they usually have terrible feet (although we have one barefoot TB who copes brilliantly without a days lameness in the two years he has been barefoot). Trouble is, we have domesticated and bred horses with little regard for the strength of their feet, concentrating instead, on speed and movement. Now we have a whole load of horses that just cannot cope without the shoes we nail onto their feet.

 

[Hollyloveponies]

I have a farrier who does barefoot and normal trimming he's been doing it for 30 years and is very good at it and my horse is barefoot and perfectly fine she doesn't get footsie at all so i think it all depends on the pony sooooo if a pony is very footsie then maybe they should just have front's on.

 

[Pale Rider]

Wagtail, if you approach barefoot in the right way, and get all the different aspects right, you will see how far away you are from the truth.

Horses that do not benefit from barefoot are rare, owners who won't let them are numerous.

 

[amandap]

Trouble is, we have domesticated and bred horses with little regard for the strength of their feet, concentrating instead, on speed and movement. Now we have a whole load of horses that just cannot cope without the shoes we nail onto their feet.

I believe this is true. Horses are mollycoddled from birth and many not trimmed from an early age and they don't get the varied (or enough even) movement to develop strong hoof structure. Diets are hard to get right with hay grass and hay not tested or grown for low starch/sugar content, sugars and minerals added to feeds to balance but this doesn't necessarily balance to the grass and hay the horse is eating so horses are often deprived of vital minerals or getting too much of others. I had no idea what a healthy hoof looks like and I know I'm not alone but once I learned more I can see more clearly the weak infected frogs, poor hoof development, long heels, weak internal structures toe first landings etc. etc. that horses grow and prompt the need for protection and further mollycoddling and so it goes on until the horses hooves break down completely.
I believe we need to look at how to enable horses to grow truly healthy hooves from birth and all through their lives and change our practices, where necessary, accordingly. Slapping shoes on or trimming to make hooves 'right' is not imo the way to go, it's too 'small' an approach, we need to look at the whole picture, not just hope this or that will 'cure' a horses hoof problems.

mta. Here's some pics of healthy hooves. http://www.right2remainshoeless.com/html/pin_up_s.html

 

[rockysmum]

Personally I cant believe that someone hasn't taken a stand on who can and cant work with horses for money.

I have nothing against barefoot trimmers or any of the other people who advertise help with horses (not even the horse communicators) if that is how people choose to spend their money.

However nearly everything which is done to a horse can affect its general health and wellbeing and in some cases can cause permanent damage.

I personally wouldn't let anyone near my horse who is not trained (I work in Education so I would expect Level 3 or above) and registered with some sort of professional body.

It doesn't even have to be the government or horse charities, the insurance companies could specify who can work on horses insured by them, they are the ones who will end up standing the vets bills if things go wrong.

 

[Natch]

amandap, you've reminded me of an interesting school of thought that is out there currently, which reckons that perennial ryegrass, popular at present to grow on horse grazing because it's productive and durable, could be partially to blame for topday's cases of laminitis. PRG has grown in popularity of recent years for the above reasons, but people are only now starting to take into account the fact that its actually a) not very balanced vit and mineral-wise, and b) its reasonably high in starch, bad news for those sensitive to too much starch in the diet.

It's food for thought, if you'll pardon the pun.

I personally wouldn't let anyone near my horse who is not trained (I work in Education so I would expect Level 3 or above) and registered with some sort of professional body.

It doesn't even have to be the government or horse charities, the insurance companies could specify who can work on horses insured by them, they are the ones who will end up standing the vets bills if things go wrong.

One of the tired arguements which is always wheeled out on these threads, is lack of training for a trimmer vs farrier. So I investigated. All the modules that a farrier has to cover, which aren't directly related to shoeing, are covered by at least one barefoot training schedule. I suspect that they go into more detail on diet. They have to complete case studies/apprenticeships too (I'm talking about KC La Pierre's method if anyone's following). We aren't talking a weekend course here. I know this doesn't cover peer-approved or affiliated to any meaningful body, but I don't think its as simple as writing them off for this reason; The man at the top of this organisation is trying to push forward meaningful scientific knowledge of the hoof, and surely we would know about it by now if the horses he and his organisation trimmed were not being done so successfully; it didn't take long for the news on Strausser reaching the UK to be published everywhere.

This scheme in particular required you to "affiliate" to their register of approved and trained individuals. They take out insurance. etc etc. Now I'm not saying this is the same as being registered with the worshipful whotsit. But its an organisation they belong to, which will be highly keen to keep their PR positive, and I would think that anybody out there registered with them who is laming horses would soon be kicked off their books.

 

[spotty_pony]

Thank you for all of your replies.

The interesting thing about this particular barefoot trimmer is that he IS approved. (By the UKNHCP.) This, however, still does not make it acceptable for him to draw blood and make their horses more lame. One is now wearing a poultice and the other one needs hoof boots just to walk to the field! The owners do not believe in horses wearing shoes and don't seem to realise the damage they could be doing to their horses.

Yes, I understand than not all barefoot trimmers are bad, but after this experience I can say I will always be sticking with my reliable farrier and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

I am going to speak to the YO about this as really it is her job to sort it out, not me. If nothing is done then I will consider taking further action.

 

[amandap]

Thank you for all of your replies.

The interesting thing about this particular barefoot trimmer is that he IS approved. (By the UKNHCP.) This, however, still does not make it acceptable for him to draw blood and make their horses more lame. One is now wearing a poultice and the other one needs hoof boots just to walk to the field! The owners do not believe in horses wearing shoes and don't seem to realise the damage they could be doing to their horses.

This Trimmer should be reported to the UKNHCP immediately.

Grass is such a difficult one and I know very little. Some believe horses are best on old meadow and this may well be true but most of us don't have that and it takes many years for pasture to return if it ever can truely. At the moment I'm thinking caring for grass correctly is the way to go with appropriate care of the soil. That is having the soil tested and applying whatever is required to enable grass to grow well so starch, sugar content is lower over all. Cold, drought and over grazing will still be risk times of course. Just applying a nitrate fertilizer is imo not the way to go.
I have a friend who has gone this way and in three years has totally changed her soil profile for the better even very high levels of aluminum that were present have dropped to low levels in forage from those fields. No idea how this works but it has.

 

[Natch]

Thank you for all of your replies.

The interesting thing about this particular barefoot trimmer is that he IS approved. (By the UKNHCP.) This, however, still does not make it acceptable for him to draw blood and make their horses more lame. One is now wearing a poultice and the other one needs hoof boots just to walk to the field! The owners do not believe in horses wearing shoes and don't seem to realise the damage they could be doing to their horses.

Yes, I understand than not all barefoot trimmers are bad, but after this experience I can say I will always be sticking with my reliable farrier and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

I am going to speak to the YO about this as really it is her job to sort it out, not me. If nothing is done then I will consider taking further action.

UKNHCP has a website. You can contact them from there. I know a couple of people in the organisation and they would be VERY keen to hear from you. Why wait for your YO to do it, when he could be going around laming other horses in the meantime? Contact them this morning (I'm sure you could remain anonymous if requested) and if you can please take some photos or videos of the horses in question to send in to them.

Your judgement of all trimmers based on this one is just the same as barefoot enthusiasts judging all farrier based on one bad one

Please, regardless of what you think about barefoot trimmers, its important to local people's horses that you raise any concerns you have with somebody who can deal with it - if not UKNHCP then a local welfare group.

 

[competitiondiva]

OK I've not kept up over night with all the recent replies but I think YorksG has some very valid points, until barefoot trimming has a professional/outside regulated qualification it will be open for cowboys to mock... yes i'm sure there are as many bad trimmers as bad farriers, the difference being that one can be held accountable for what they do and the other not! Now with regard to shoes/no shoes surely everyone can judge for themselves as to what works for your horse. My horse was pretty much 15 months ago declared lame for life due to damage to her collateral ligament in her coffin, working with vet and farrier, she's now sound again and this is with shoes. Shoes are not the big bad as CPtrayes seems to suggest. But likewise they are not always necessary. My farrier is more than happy to do full set, half set or just trimming.