Concerns about a livery...

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Gf5871

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Hi, haven’t posted for a long time but hope everyone’s well & I just need some advice.
I have my ponies at home and I have some liveries. The most part of these are retirement liveries as I have no facilities just lots of grass, but I have 1 happy hacker livery & a grass livery. Although I’m on site, unless specified in livery contracts liveries are expected to come and check their own horses daily. The grass livery is causing me some cause for concern.
He was moved here in June, & I’ve seen the owner once in that period, but she’s been on site twice (1 x for farrier, 1 x when I saw her) other than that- nothing. I text her and ask if she’s been up and she tells me she has although no one has seen her, & I’m aware if people then go in the yard as the dogs let me know instantly, so unless she can creep past dogs and people, i’m guessing she’s not been up! His feet where done shortly after he arrived, but nothing since. I’ve spoken to her on several occasions and I’m told she’s arranging the farrier but as yet nothing, but what’s really worrying me at the moment is that this horse presented with a cough about 6 weeks ago which coincided when the hay went out. I’ve spoken to her on several occasions about his cough but it’s fallen very much on deaf ears. This cough has progressively got worse since it started & in the last 10 days he’s started to drop some weight. Ive now noticed his breathing seemed heavy, as if in some discomfort. I’m 99% sure this horse has a severe hay allergy. I sent the livery a text stating my concerns and that I felt she needed to contact a vet but no reply. I’ve text her again this morning asking if she’d got my text and to get in contact with me, but again, nothing. So what do I do? She does pay her livery every month but unlike the others it’s a diy contract- she’s expected to come and check her horse. I can’t claim he’s been abandoned because I have receipt of her paying livery by bank transfer but I do not wish to watch this horse rot in my field any longer. He honestly looks like a rescue case. He’s un-rugged, which is ok but he’s not the “type” of horse I’d personally leave un-rugged & is now dropping weight, his feet as absolutely horrendous & standing at the best part of 18hh & built like a tank they don’t look like they’ll carry his weight much more, plus the cough which is day and night.
Do i just call the vet myself & loose the money but piece of mind? Do I go to the extra expense myself of fencing this horse off and feeding him haylage when this horse has gone through 4 fences since being here & not even an apology or an offer to help recifty or pay for damages. Do I ask her to leave? What? I’m at such a loss! T.I.A
 
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Either ask her to leave or get the horse seen to and bill her for it, knowing that you might have to take action to get the money... as far as I'm aware you have a legal responsibility towards the horse and its welfare because it is on your land? I might be wrong there though. If that is the case though it is time to take action. Either seeing to the horse's welfare or getting the horse off your land. If she is registered with a vet they should come out and bill her themselves? Suppose it depends if she's paid up at the vets in the past there though.
 
Give her notice. It will inspire her to do something - even if it's just getting in touch with you, which gives you the opportunity to discuss the horses care with you.
I have it written into my contracts that if I have a concern about a horse, and cannot contact the owner, that I will call the vet. If you don't have contracts, it really would be a good idea.
Personally, I won't have a horse on my yard that isn't cared for the way I want horses cared for. I only have a couple of DIY's, so limited chance of a horse not being looked after properly, and they are both carefully chosen/lovely. If I had concerns, and the owner didn't listen/take action, I'd have no hesitation in showing them where the door is!
 
I think you have allowed this to go on for far too long, if she is supposed to come every day and has not been seen regularly then you have taken responsibility for his care by default, as Aus has just said give notice and speak to her, not by text.
I would have kicked her off my yard months ago, I also have agreement to call a vet as and when required, it is why I avoid DIY liveries unless I feel I can really trust them, if they fail to care for their horse they are given notice.
 
You could try seeking legal advice on where you stand at evicting her. Can you give her notice and if she is not off say within 30 days you will report the horse as abandoned? I think that abandoned horses ownership can transfer to the land owner if i'm not mistaken?

It really depends how you feel and if you could consciously just pass this problem onto another YM/YO, if she isn't looking after the horse whilst it is at your yard then what is to say she will once it's moved?

Do you have her address? Could you go and speak to her in person?

At the yard where my two mares and my parent's gelding is kept the YO makes it clear that if she has concerns/if there is an emergency about a horse she will call the vet in herself without consulting the owner, which suits me (I'd hate for any of mine to suffer because i was not contactable).

I'm sorry to answer your questions with a question but i'm just brainstorming here as i hate the thought of that horse just being left to, in your words, rot.
 
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/what-do-if-you-find-abandoned-or-fly-grazing-horse

"Abandoned horses
Abandoned horses are those that have been left somewhere deliberately by their owner, either permanently or for a long enough period of time that has led to unnecessary suffering or the risk of unnecessary suffering.
Section 9 of the Animal Welfare Act (2006) makes a person guilty of an offence if they fail in their legal duty of care to provide for their horse’s needs.
Fly grazing horses
Fly grazing horses are those that have been deliberately allowed to graze on land without the occupier’s permission.
This includes horses belonging to owners who had been given permission to keep their horse(s) there at first, but the agreement with the landowner has come to an end."
 
I agree I'd give her notice but I would also be inclined to get a vet out and bill her, if she is paying livery you would assume the horse hasn't been abandoned... maybe she's just in experienced?

PapaverFollis I believe you are right regarding having the legal responsibility as the horse is on your land (I recall reading another thread with a similar issue) - Something to bare in mind!
 
Thank you all for your replies. On my way back from the school run I passed her in the lane however she looked the other way & didn’t want to stop.
Got back to the yard to discover she’s fed her horse, great you’d think? Although she’s fed him with my feed so he’s had a large dose of mare & youngstock mix & an even larger dose of my chaff with some “home remedies”....horse still stood in field coughing it’s guts up.
Safe to say this is the last straw and I will be typing her notice while the children eat their dinner and it will be sent recorded delivery tomorrow.
 
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Antw23uk said:
Whats with all the texting? What happened to good old fashioned phone calls and if that didnt work a text saying pop into the house tomorrow i need to speak with you. I'd give her notice.
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Texting because I’ve phoned and left several voicemails to no response, I’ve been to her house and no answer. At least in text I have it in writing
 
Send her 1 more text.
Say: Please contact me by return. I need to know what time you are coming up to see your horse within the next 24 hours. There is a urgent matter to be discussed. I must see you.

If you are really narked, then add: Fail to reply to this message and I will have no choice but to call in a vet and farrier immediately to your horse, you also forfeit any notice period previously agreed and your horse must be removed from my property by xyz date.
 
Give her notice.

I had this sadly. I couldn't prove the livery was coming up but I knew she wasn't. I ended up treating her horses mud fever with my Horses things and also wormed her Horse several times. She started to moan about the cost of hay and how much i was putting out and in the end stopped paying or paid late. The horse was well cared for by myself and another lady. After all we couldn't feed our 2 hay and watch hers go without. In the end I gave her notice and when she turned up to collect the Horse (I made sure I was there) she asked me where the gate was, she clearly hadn't been up to see Horse in ages!)
 
Poor horse, what is wrong with people like this livery? Really feel for you OP. I've been in your position but only for 3 weeks as I refused to allow it to continue any longer and gave 1 weeks' notice, then had to get the police to help me evict them as they threatened me and refused to leave, lovely people indeed! Giving your livery a months' notice may not be necessary, a week would be sufficient under the circumstances as she has not met her responsibility to fulfill her side of the contract by neglecting this poor horse. Give these people an inch, they take a mile, so please be on your guard and be assertive that you will not allow the neglect of animals on your premises, no matter what this woman says. Good luck to you and this poor horse.
 
How frustrating.
My friend has a grass livery who barely touches her horses, but does at least turn up every day! but her oldest desperately needed feeding due to practically no teeth and they regularly seem to run out of food, despite knowing how much he needs. she also has someone who comes once a week, but this is an agreement and he pays on time and extra for her to feed his horse, who is perfectly well.

sadly it is not your problem
if they agreed to get vet out and pay you grass livery care etc I would want them to stay simply as I would feel worried for the horses welfare elsewhere. however, it is not really your problem and they sound like someone who would be a nightmare to ever get any extras from, even if they do pay the current bill on time. they would probably never want to pay enough
 
Husband was here when she arrived and apparently she asked him to bring her horse as she has issues with him and the gate. Husband declined as he was upto his shoulders in a tractor but watched her bring him in and apparently she only opened the gate the tiniest amount causing him to get caught on the gate latch and rush through.
I know I let it go on but in all honesty he’s a lovely chap. It wasn’t such an issue during the summer, grass was good, he was low maintenance and bar from him escaping on a few occasions he was ok, but now winters here, I’m heavily pregnant, trudging around in 8 inches of mud doing my own horses plus paying liveries horses it’s very wearing. Then to take your kindness for granted on top of that really takes the biscuit.
She’s going to be hard pushed to find anywhere local now to put him. No one offers grass livery round here and a lot of the livery yards are on wonter routines with limited turnout meaning she’d have to visit 2 x daily and muck out. Good luck to her although I’ll be sorry to see the horse go!
 
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She used your feed?! You must be the most kindest soft yard owner I've heard of, all my previous yard owners would of kicked off by now.

I think i'd tell her as she doesn't visit often enough she now has to pay X amount from X date for full grass/retirement livery so you can help do her horse and she needs to get the vet to look at his cough
Be strict, explain how it is. Some people just don't care for their horses, i don't understand why they have them!

I'm soft like you and would want to help, had a similar situation at my previous yard. You ONLY saw the owners in winter every 2 days when they'd muck out poorly/feed their horses (stabled 24/7 mostly) they gave them 5 haylage nets each, mind the stables full of crap on the last day and no attention. One was a 17h gelding in a 12 x 10 box. if we got to turn out for a odd day they'd message around 'can someone turn out my horses n put them in 2day?' a few of us did, as we felt so bad for them and they were nut jobs, one nearly kicked me in the head once. The owners simply didn't care then in summer they didn't come up for 6 months.
 
It does make you wonder why some people have horses doesn't it? Couple on grass livery at the last yard never saw their owners either. Owners came to the yard religiously to pay but never went out to the field, just posted payment through YOs letterbox and went. YO had to intervene for vet treatment and wormed at his own expense. It was different though cos they were on part (well full, but basic) livery and old but still it seemed odd to not pay them the occasional visit for a scratch and a carrot or something.
 
Your alternative if you like the horse and can cope with the extra work is effectively offer her assisted livery but increase the weekly price.

If you increase it by say £40 per week to include you checking him and throwing feed in for him and for calling vet and farrier as required. With her to pay the farrier and vet and for her to come down at least once a week to ensure that he is groomed etc (unless holiday agreed) Her visit should be to include meeting up with you to make sure that any issues can be discussed in person. If she comes down and you are not there then she should text you to confirm she has been.
 
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