Condition - Running out of ideas!

WelshD

WelshD

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I have a small section A pony who came to me with severe sweet itch. He was on steroids for a while and had to be kept on the skinny side for some time after to minimise the chances of laminitis, that took us to the beginning of the year

Now I am finding it tricky to get the condition on him and he looks far younger than his 4 years. I have stepped things up in the last couple of months but he still has a tiny skinny neck and angular quarters

I'm not sure whether to get him backed in the hope that regular sympathetic ridden work will improve things or leave it till he looks more muscled

His feed: Pure Feeds Pure Easy (chaff type feed), Baileys Topline cubes, Speedybeet, Baileys lo-cal balancer, veg oil and Outshine - this amounts to just over a kilo of feed twice a day (mostly fibre and oil). He gets overnight on good grazing alone (or comes in with ad lib hay) and is on poor grazing during the day with my other pony as that paddock has shade as well as company

His usual exercise per week - 2 days lunge or longreining (30 mins) and 3 days walked out (40 mins) he seems to have reasonable fitness and works happily - perhaps I need to invest in a Pessoa and up the lunging but the ground has been so hard

I took him to a show today as part of his education and although he was clean and tidy he was placed low and two judges commented on his condition - I expected this but it did make me feel a bit useless!

I've had him a year now so am beginning to worry things will never change. the vets only view is that its good he is on the poor side in case he has to go back on steroids but the sweetitch is pretty much under control
 
I'm no feeding expert, but I feed D&H ERS Pellets, which were recommended me by this forum, which could be worth a try. They are designed for racehorses that tie up, so are low starch/sugar, high fibre and oil and are designed for horses in hard work so have high energy levels! Made a huge difference to my boy, whom I was shovelling with feed and have now cut back to Alfa-A Oil and the pellets, much better!!

However, if you're really having trouble getting weight on, it may be worth veterinary investigation. Inability to put weight on is symptomatic of many things, and it could be worth it. I got my boy checked out, and so glad I did, as he has pssm so needed a diet overhaul to put the weight on!!!

Edit: have reread your post and am a moron - you've already had him under the vet. Excuse my second para...
 
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I found my standie hard to put weight on this spring as little grazing, and he came to me with encysted small redworms. You might want to try worming him for those? They wont show up on a worm count. Otherwise as prev mentioned it might be something else internal causing him to drop the weight, so vet would be your best option
 
Are you sure he's 4 yrs old and not younger or older? With that amount of feed he should be a fattie, I'd get a blood test done to see if there's something else going on and maybe check for a stomach ulcer after the steroids or liver damage, have his teeth been checked? I'd slack off the work for the mo until you can find out what's going on as natives shouldn't be that hard to keep weight on at all - it's usually the other way around so somethings up, no amount of work and feed is going to build topline if he can't absorb what he's being fed.
 
WelshD said:
His feed: Pure Feeds Pure Easy (chaff type feed), Baileys Topline cubes, Speedybeet, Baileys lo-cal balancer, veg oil and Outshine - this amounts to just over a kilo of feed twice a day (mostly fibre and oil). He gets overnight on good grazing alone (or comes in with ad lib hay) and is on poor grazing during the day with my other pony as that paddock has shade as well as company
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This seems a very odd mix of feed. Pure Easy is low calorie, so if you want weight on, why are you using it? Outshine is oil anyway, but your feeding veg oil on top of it?

Personally I'd switch him to the Pure Condition feed, and sugarbeet, and probably top this up with outshine if needed. Feed the recommended amount for his size to ensure that he is getting all he needs
 
One of my horses was struggling with condition over the winter, remedy I found was brewers yeast & Fenugreek seeds. Builds condition without pileing on the calories. Also consider adding more oil, like Linseed & Cod Liver, calories without sugar/starch which could aggrevate his laminitis. Have you looked at Simple systems Enduro Complete feed?
 
Thank you all for your replies. Apologies if I dont mention all of your questions/suggestions below..

Brewers yeast he gets for his sweet itch - 50g a day, I guess I could up this?

Fenugreek - he wont touch - he kicks over his bucket and picks through the feed if I put any in there

Teeth - were done a few months ago, wolf teeth removed and the rest checked and filed

Worms - last worm count about 10 weeks ago ish said 'moderate' redworms and he was wormed with Equest, the time before that he had the Panacur 5 day wormer to get rid of pinworms - I will get another count done though

Pure Easy - Is given to my other pony so I have it on site and just used it to stop this pony bolting his food (when he bolts his feed he gets mild choke) There is no reason I couldnt swap this to another chaff though

Grazing - night grazing is an area with grass 4ft long, he eats the greener grass at the base of this. Day grazing is literally a bare field but it does have shade and his companion which the night field doesnt. Both ponies poo plenty so I would imagine even the bare field is yeilding grass. If he comes in for any reason he gets this years fresh hay.

Outshine and oil - he already gets the full recommended amount of outshine so I added the extra oil as a desperation measure

His age - this is correct, I have his full family tree but he does looks less mature than my two year old so can see why someone would question it

Damage done by the steroids - this isnt out of the possibilities, he hates the girth being done up but I just put that down to him being young and still getting to grips with a saddle

The vet seems unconcerned and is happy with him being on the poor side in case he has to go back on steroids

He has had muscle tone before, he was never a beefcake but was shown in hand sucessfully as a yearling and looked almost bulkier than he does now!
 
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Baileys topline conditioning mix (along with correct work) has done wonders for two of mine. Beau was rather skinny and he had rather bony hindquarters when I got him last summer. He's been getting 3 scoops of Baileys and sugar beet with Alfa A oil for the last year and he looks like a different horse.
 
Do you have a photo of him standing sideways square up if possible. He needs a high protein high fibre, high oil diet with little or no sugar and carbs.
My youngsters always have good topline and are fed alfa oil base with micronised linseed, calm and condition, grass nuts and topspec balancer a mug of each soaked together with salt a teaspoon full and a tablespoon of brewers yeast. Sounds to me like he may need worming again and turning away for a week or two to pick up and relax
 
I agree with Wench that you seem to have him on a rather odd mix of feed. Personally I don't rate the Pure feed and would choose something like Alfa A Oil instead to stop him bolting his feed. What about Blue Chip instead of the Lo-Cal balancer or something? Its worked miracles for mine in the past. Maybe ring one of the feed companies for advice? As he's a youngster there might be something more specific for him.

Having said that though for a small pony this does seem a lot of feed for him still not to be putting weight on...
 
this is him, he doesnt look as bad in this pic as he does close up!

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This was him when he first arrived, ravaged by sweetitch but a bit more rounded and with definite muscle in his neck

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This was him while on the steroids

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He does look immature but not particularly thin He needs a high protein diet and some walking exercise preferably up and down dale. His diet is not nutritious enough for muscle development so he needs topline as opposed to a huge amount more weight so it is what you feed that counts not the quantity. Topspec would be my first port of call as it does seem to help topline but no doubt others would have different ideas. I do like him a lot there are lots of treatments for sweetitch too but again lots will have their own views
 
Thank you. He was on TopSpec stud balancer for a while which made no difference but perhaps he wasnt on it long enough! I guess I see him as really thin as from the front and the back he looks non existent!

The sweetitch is pretty much under control just a tiny rub at the top of his tail so I am pleased that is so much better than it was and no need for steroids this year

I also like him a lot - he has a great pedigree so I would love to get him straight and to some shows really
 
I use top spec comprehensive but I do combine it with alfa oil condition cubes grass nuts and linseed a coffee mug of each all soaked together for about 10 minutes with salt and brewers yeast it is a high protein high oil diet that has worked for all mine
 
On balance - with all that you are feeding him, vets etc... Can I say, been there, done that...

I have a pony who was under the vet, looked like a walking anatomy lesson (dropped weight VERY quickly for no known reason) was being fed every fattening feed, herbs, supplements under the sun, contacted nutritionists etc. I was just about to call the vet out again - even though after a £900 vet bill they had found nothing remarkable... Someone gave me some Alltech Life Force to try. My pony has never looked back. He now looks like a proper Connemara should do.
I can honestly say that I was very worried about losing him, he was that bad!

Re the sweet itch, I have another pony who has suffered badly with this. After my experience with Mr T I tried him on the supplement. It hasn't totally fixed it - ideally I should have started it earlier in the year, but it has made a significant difference to the quality of his skin. I would expect that by next year / SI season I will see an even better improvement.

In terms of feed - from spending A FORTUNE (!!!) on feeds, supplements, herbs, lotions and potions... I am down to 2 bags of nuts and 2 bags of Top Chop - per month, between 6 horses / ponies. The nuts are more to keep one horse amused while he is in and when I am doing training sessions with them. Mr T is having half a scoop of chop just to give him his supplement.

A humongous saving on my part and relief beyond relief that all of my horses look good and feel good. So much less of a headache than it was at the beginning of the year..

FWIW - I don't see that you have anything to lose. :-/
 
I'd be inclined to get him on some better grazing, have another worm count done, and perhaps a blood test for tapeworm.
 
You say he's out on his own on the richer grazing at night - I'm sure you would have considered this but just in case... any chance he's stressing about that and not eating at night?
 
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