Condition Scoring - How Is She Looking?

[EquiEquestrian556]

Just wondering what people's views are on how Sunny's looking. Personally, I think she looks spot on, but I may well be wrong. I'm well aware that she's lacking top line though, which we're working on.

Some photos I took of her today.

Sorry, she wasn't standing straight, hence she looks crooked.

She looks fat here, but in reality she isn't - again she's not standing straight though.

Final photo, her ribs are just visible.

To me, I'd score her at a 3. She's in moderate work, for 2.5 hours a day, including 45 mins schooling, 15 - 20 mins galloping, 45 mins jumping 1m+ (small course), and then normally 10 more mins schooling to finish off.

This is what she's fed. 0.1 kg of Baileys Lo-Cal Balancer, 0.3kg of Dengie Hi Fi Light Chaff, small coffee mug of Baileys All-Round Competition Mix, 50ml of Benevit Advance & 50ml of dried mint. She's on restricted grazing & has a small 24-hour soaked net when she comes in (she's in at night).

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Would nobody like to tell me what they think of her?

 

[JillA]

It's always difficult to tell from photographs, you need to be hands on to check for muscle vs fat. Are you using the 9 point scale or the 5 point one? Just test her against this http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF Documents/Condition Scoring Leaflet.ashx

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

It's always difficult to tell from photographs, you need to be hands on to check for muscle vs fat. Are you using the 9 point scale or the 5 point one? Just test her against this http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF Documents/Condition Scoring Leaflet.ashx

I'm using the 5 point one. This is her score when I condition scored her yesterday.

Pelvis: Easily felt & seen, nicely rounded, no gutter.
Back and Ribs: Ribs just visible and can be felt using only very light finger pressure. No gutter along her back.
Backbone slightly covered, spine can be easily
felt. Neck & Shoulder: No fatty deposits on shoulder, shoulder blade easy to feel & locate. No crest or fatty deposits on neck, just lacking topline.

So to me, she's a 3 (on the 5 point scale). I was just wondering if anyone thought she could have a bit more off? I think she could, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[SpringArising]

I like her a lot! She's super cute.

I would say she could do with losing a few pounds, but I wouldn't be overly worried either.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

I like her a lot! She's super cute.

I would say she could do with losing a few pounds, but I wouldn't be overly worried either.

Ah, thank you, she is cute isn't she!
Yep, I agree with you there. Would you say it's her belly or hindquarters that need to lose a bit, or both?

Also, not related, but would you say she's chestnut or roan (I know Faracat is the probably best person to ask though).

 

[splashgirl45]

I think she looks about right, looks in really good condition but doesn't need any more weight...

 

[Palindrome]

She looks good to me too. I think she is a chestnut as roans have darker head and legs but her coat do looks speckled with white, has she got some appaloosa ancestry may be?

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

She looks good to me too. I think she is a chestnut as roans have darker head and legs but her coat do looks speckled with white, has she got some appaloosa ancestry may be?

Thank you. No, she's a pure bred & registered NF, so no Appaloosa in there. Interesting, must just be her coat colour.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

This photo shows her white hairs quite well.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

What you describe, to me, is hard work, twice as much as most horses get, but she does not look particularly fit............
I like to see a few ribs, which are visible in one photo, other than that I think she needs to lose a good 10kgs, and build some muscle to get to competition fitness. Its probably the photos. Also your idea of galloping is probably a good fast canter on the bridle. We canter racehorses maybe 3 x 7 furlongs four times a week, maybe gallop 8 furlongs once a week. They are getting an hour and a half to two hours exercise six days a week and that is hard work it is about the same amount that an eventer gets.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

What you describe, to me, is hard work, twice as much as most horses get, but she does not look particularly fit............
I like to see a few ribs, which are visible in one photo, other than that I think she needs to lose a good 10kgs, and build some muscle to get to competition fitness. Its probably the photos. Also your idea of galloping is probably a good fast canter on the bridle. We canter racehorses maybe 3 x 7 furlongs four times a week, maybe gallop 8 furlongs once a week. They are getting an hour and a half to two hours exercise six days a week and that is hard work it is about the same amount that an eventer gets.

Oh trust me, photos can be deceptive. She's very fit, just lacking muscle tone, the vet & farrier - even saddle fitter kept going on at how fit she was & looked (in the flesh). The 2.5 hours is absolutelynothing to her, she comes back with a slightly sweaty area under saddle and warm - that's it. Even hunting, at the end when all the other horses are slowing down, puffing & dripping with sweat, she's just there like she just started, hardly any sweat visible. The vet has said what an incredibly fit horse she is.

OK, maybe she doesn't gallop as far or long as a racehorse, but she isn't one and I don't want to be one (she gladly would be though!) She is definitely galloping, I do 35/ 40 laps (not entirely sure just how many, but that's normally my aim) of galloping round our 4.5 acre field (not sure how many furlongs that would be if you were to correctly measure it). Maybe she is doing hard work, to me, she's not doing much, as she could do a lot more. But obviously TBs who are racing & 4* (I take it that's what you're referring to) are not the same as a NF pony who is very much used for leisure riding activities, and racers & eventers are normally kept at a condition score of 2, which unless it's a laminitic leisure type horse you wouldn't want to see.

ETA, her ribs are actually always visible in the flesh, but unfortunately the photos don't seem to show that.

 

[SpringArising]

Ah, thank you, she is cute isn't she!
Yep, I agree with you there. Would you say it's her belly or hindquarters that need to lose a bit, or both?

Also, not related, but would you say she's chestnut or roan (I know Faracat is the probably best person to ask though).

She's chestnut. Red roans are far more 'pink' looking and have a much darker head & legs than they do body.

I think her hindquarters are fine fat-wise (but lacking in muscle). It's her barrel that could lose a tiny bit.

This is a very good example of a red/chestnut/strawberry roan, btw:

Note how the body is a mix of chestnut and white hairs (usually far more white in the winter), and that the head and legs are completely chestnut.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

If you could do more slow uphill work you might get a different muscle pattern. I was not suggesting you train like a racehorse though point to pointers are, but it is for comparison.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

If you could do more slow uphill work you might get a different muscle pattern. I was not suggesting you train like a racehorse though point to pointers are, but it is for comparison.

Sorry, should of been more clear with her workload. She also does lots of hacking, with lots of steep hills, walking & trotting up them.
I'm well aware that she's lacking muscle tone though, which as I said in my original post we're working on. Thanks for your input!

 

[TGM]

To me she looks like a very 'well' condition score 3 - ie not actually overweight but at that stage where you have to be careful not to let them put any more on. She looks a very similar type to my pony who is one of those 'live on fresh air' types, always looking well covered on minimum feed whilst hunting and competing. The only time she really looked lean and fit was when she did some pony racing. As for colour, I wonder how old she is? Our pony was definitely chestnut when we bought her, but has a lot more white hair now she is 18, giving a more roan like appearance.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

To me she looks like a very 'well' condition score 3 - ie not actually overweight but at that stage where you have to be careful not to let them put any more on. She looks a very similar type to my pony who is one of those 'live on fresh air' types, always looking well covered on minimum feed whilst hunting and competing. The only time she really looked lean and fit was when she did some pony racing. As for colour, I wonder how old she is? Our pony was definitely chestnut when we bought her, but has a lot more white hair now she is 18, giving a more roan like appearance.

Agree with you there. A lot of people out hunting have told me to do pony races with her, but I think that may just blow her brain and she may never walk (only gallop or jog!) again! - She's definitely fast enough though. She's 9 next week

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Wow, that's a lot of work! Wish I could give mine that amount. They'd drop dead with the shock of it all though, I'm sure! 40 laps round a 4.5 acre field, in gallop??? Flippin heck. I'd fall off with sheer exhaustion at that! Anyway, I think she looks just a shade overweight and you'd never know she was doing that amount of work either, with the lack of muscle tone.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Wow, that's a lot of work! Wish I could give mine that amount. They'd drop dead with the shock of it all though, I'm sure! 40 laps round a 4.5 acre field, in gallop??? Flippin heck. I'd fall off with sheer exhaustion at that! Anyway, I think she looks just a shade overweight and you'd never know she was doing that amount of work either, with the lack of muscle tone.

Yep, well, perhaps 35 laps, but I do try & aim for 40. She is very fit, just lacking muscle tone. I personally find it very tiring, hence why we often only do 35 laps (miss on the other hand, well she'd do far more if you let her!) OK then, looks like the verdict is still too fat, more exercise & even less food for her then (she's really going to love me isn't she!!).

 

[PoppyAnderson]

I'd change her feed too. There's a fair bit of 'filler' and sugar in what you're giving her. I'd swap to speedibeet, oats, a chaff with no alfalfa or mollases (not many about but pure easy is one - there are others) and salt.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I am pretty sure OP will not agree but apart from the fact that I don't have the time, I only want a horse to be as fit as he needs to be, and I would have got the horse slim before fittening, once the muscles are built in this way it is almost impossible to alter them without letting a horse down for six weeks and starting again with walking.
I don't see OPs diet, but I had a NF which was very "small TB" type and so I fed him and treated him like a TB, it seemed to work, he won a few rosettes, a judge of TBs was very taken with him. He was more an all rounder though, not built like a racing pony.
I'd expect OP to feed a plain fibre based diet with oats for energy as the only cereal , no molasses for any horse, esp a pony.

 

[Nudibranch]

Im surprised she doesn't have more muscle with all that work.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

I'm quite happy with what she's on feed-wise, so I'm not going to change that - it's the tiniest feed in the world if you see it, it just sounds like a lot. Plus it's the only thing she really eats, other than mud & a tiny 24 hour soaked haynet. Oats send her loopy, so no to that.

Again though, I was just asking how people thought her weight looked, not to tell me what to feed my horse or how to exercise her. Yes, you all have different opinions on what she should be fed or how she should be worked etc, but at the end of the day she is my horse, and I will do with her/ feed her what I want to feed her. Although I should know posting a question on here - you always get someone's opinion on a different matter when you didn't ask for it as such on HHO.

 

[be positive]

Im surprised she doesn't have more muscle with all that work.

She should look like a racehorse in her muscle tone from working that hard if she is working correctly, I think her weight looks fine but does not really reflect the work she is doing, you will get a wide range of responses in the same way as almost everyone does on HHO and in RL.
It may be that she actually requires a slightly higher protein diet to build the muscles correctly, I would try her on micronised linseed, high in oil and protein but non heating, but then again you may not want any suggestions on what to feed, out of interest why the mint?

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

She should look like a racehorse in her muscle tone from working that hard if she is working correctly, I think her weight looks fine but does not really reflect the work she is doing, you will get a wide range of responses in the same way as almost everyone does on HHO and in RL.
It may be that she actually requires a slightly higher protein diet to build the muscles correctly, I would try her on micronised linseed, high in oil and protein but non heating, but then again you may not want any suggestions on what to feed, out of interest why the mint?

I was thinking of giving her micronised linseed for muscle tone, so may give that a go. The mint is purely because she's 'Miss Fuss Pot' and is very picky on what she eats, and the sprinkle of mint makes it more appetizing for her.

 

[Goldenstar]

Im surprised she doesn't have more muscle with all that work.

Me too.
Horse is too fat for me ,it would be on to diet if it was getting that much work and was that size here .

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Diet and exercise go hand in hand. You can't divorce one from the other. Why so defensive? There's a lot of knowledge on here that's worth listening to. If you're not prepared for people to speak their mind, don't ask the question in the first place. Something is not quite right. That much work should produce a hard, fit, muscled horse, so something needs looking at. I stand by my point about diet. Have you ever properly looked into what's in those feeds? There's a lot of molasses and empty calories. Maybe if you fed a higher spec of food, a diet more akin to a horses natural diet, you wouldn't have to add mint to tempt her to eat it. Micronised linseed is also a great feed but its very high in calories, which is the only reason I didn't suggest it.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Diet and exercise go hand in hand. You can't divorce one from the other. Why so defensive? There's a lot of knowledge on here that's worth listening to. If you're not prepared for people to speak their mind, don't ask the question in the first place. Something is not quite right. That much work should produce a hard, fit, muscled horse, so something needs looking at. I stand by my point about diet. Have you ever properly looked into what's in those feeds? There's a lot of molasses and empty calories. Maybe if you fed a higher spec of food, a diet more akin to a horses natural diet, you wouldn't have to add mint to tempt her to eat it. Micronised linseed is also a great feed but its very high in calories, which is the only reason I didn't suggest it.

Sorry, again, should of been more clear in the original post. She's only just started doing the 2.5 hours, she's been doing that much work for about a week, so not long. Before that she was being worked for an hour, jumping 1m courses and 30 mins very low level schooling, with 10 - 20 mins cantering, hence why I said she was in medium work, as to me she still was, as she'd only been doing the 2.5 hours for a week. I've upped her work load as I wanted to get her that bit fitter for ODEs later this year. She is just a very fussy eater naturally, only eating nice grass, and she's particular about her hay too, as well as treats. I personally prefer it if she's picky, as opposed to one pony we have, how'd eat a yew tree or old shoe if you let her.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Me too.
Horse is too fat for me ,it would be on to diet if it was getting that much work and was that size here .

She was & still is on a diet, I was just asking if people on here thought she was OK or needed to lose more.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes she needs to lose more wieght to safely work that much .