Confidence and 'forwardness'?

Sol

Sol

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*random musing*

Does a horses confidence have an effect on how willing it is to go forward, even in an environment where it should be relatively comfortable? ie. the arena. Also, do you think that horses can actually lack confidence in themselves, as well as their handlers/riders? I'm not just talking about a horse spooking so refusing to go towards something 'scary', more if the horse can actually lack the confidence to move forward freely, without it being related to pain.

Sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever.... :o

Sol x.
 
I agree with your random musing :)

The Welsh Cob is very confident at home, he is schooling at a reasonable level, we're trying to create more cadence and expression in his work which he is taking to quite well...however you get out to a competition and he's just not the same.

Its very hard to explain, he doesn't do anything wrong, in fact he is perfect. He goes in the warm up does everything he's asked, never steps out of line. But he just doesn't give you 100%, over time I have come to think that he is lacking confidence when he's out.
 
TBC you are spot on there, my welsh D is exactly the same ! He can work beautifully at home, but in public just - not the same. We say it is him being shy because thats what it feels like! You can get him more forward by cantering in the warm up before the bell and making him go on but he still lacks some of the expression he can show at home.
 
more if the horse can actually lack the confidence to move forward freely, without it being related to pain.


Absolutely! If a horse has experienced pain when being ridden, you can remove the pain, but sometimes the horse still anticipates it and so consequently will not move optimally. It can sometimes take quite a forceful jockey to ride the horse through such a barrier.......hence suggesting on a different thread in New Lounge that all horses should have back/teeth checked before being backed.
 
yes, definitely. i think it's pretty much innate too, i've known horses that were bold fearless foals that turned into bold fearless adult horses, happy to march out alone as a 4yr old, and a mare who was the most timid youngster i've ever known (honestly like having a deer in the field, not a horse) who is only just starting to get brave at 5 1/2 years old.
this has nothing to do with pain in these cases, the brave 4 yr old actually has some issues, the wimpy other one hasn't...
of course, really smart brave horses will go towards something they are afraid of, and usually want to trot. i've had a couple like that, they're interesting to ride.
 
Interesting post :D

kerilli said:
of course, really smart brave horses will go towards something they are afraid of, and usually want to trot. i've had a couple like that, they're interesting to ride.
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Kerrilli, Mick does this, he will speed up to scarey things while out on a hack, almost runs towards them, and if I trot he seems to grow a hand, head up snorting etc. I love it as it improves my position and stickability :)

He must be brave, he will pass everything out hacking, and never turns and runs.:)
 
I think it's quite interesting that 2 people with Welshies know what I'm on about, because I'm quite sure that Dan might be part welsh :)

I think Dan is quite a wimp in general - but also very clever. So part of the time he will stop, heart thudding (usually hacking, in the school he'll either be backwards and nervy or tank off...) and seem to just stand and work it out, and then will go forwards. However, it also seems to depend on his mood - he will usually prefer to spin and disappear although I stuck it out for 10-15 mins the other day at some roadworks, and he eventually plucked up the courage to speed walk/trot past of his own accord, which I was very happy about :)
I think if I can get around the confidence barrier, he could make quite a smart little horse for XC because this is something he loves, and he's so clever, but when I have tried he can be a bit quick to throw the breaks on so he can work something out! :o It will also help his dressage I think, which is why we've taken to hacking more, we WILL get used to scary things!!
 
It could well be a Welsh thing, but generally for showing Welshies need to be more like fire breathing dragons...going round all flashy shouting look at me, this is why I get so confused with Shadow...I know he loves to show off (at home) so can't understand why he becomes a shrinking violet out and about.

I'm always on top of his teeth, back, saddle etc so can pretty much rule that out...I showed him when he was first backed and always found the initial ride round with others was fine but come his individual show he just wasn't forward...so why I ever changed to dressage?!?! Who knows :p

He's not a fizzy or spooky horse by nature, very level headed infact. He will hack alone brilliantly, he will grow a hand if he doesn't like something and has been known to snort but is generally an angel out, I often go off hacking alone to places he's never been as I think its important he is brave on his own.

In the end I have accepted to a degree that this is just his character, you can't fire him up with oats (lord knows I've tried!), you can only get after him to a degree before it just looks like you a horrid rider trying to beat you r horse round the test :o I try to work with him, I know he's not as flashy as he can be but he is still very correct, has a good rhythm and is very consistent, also I'd rather have a level headed cob I can take anywhere and do anything with than a some of the WBs I see coming off lorries at dressage comps :)
 
trendybraincell said:
It could well be a Welsh thing, but generally for showing Welshies need to be more like fire breathing dragons...going round all flashy shouting look at me, this is why I get so confused with Shadow...I know he loves to show off (at home) so can't understand why he becomes a shrinking violet out and about.

I'm always on top of his teeth, back, saddle etc so can pretty much rule that out...I showed him when he was first backed and always found the initial ride round with others was fine but come his individual show he just wasn't forward...so why I ever changed to dressage?!?! Who knows :p

He's not a fizzy or spooky horse by nature, very level headed infact. He will hack alone brilliantly, he will grow a hand if he doesn't like something and has been known to snort but is generally an angel out, I often go off hacking alone to places he's never been as I think its important he is brave on his own.

In the end I have accepted to a degree that this is just his character, you can't fire him up with oats (lord knows I've tried!), you can only get after him to a degree before it just looks like you a horrid rider trying to beat you r horse round the test :o I try to work with him, I know he's not as flashy as he can be but he is still very correct, has a good rhythm and is very consistent, also I'd rather have a level headed cob I can take anywhere and do anything with than a some of the WBs I see coming off lorries at dressage comps :)
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Bless, he is lovely though :p (all of the lovely Welshies on this forum are making me want a BIG one though - I already have a Sec A! xD) And you never know, he might find his 'sparkle' at comps yet :) And I understand what you mean about the level-headedness...I thought I'd found a level headed one, but then he got a bit older and lost the plot :eek: I'm hoping normality will return as he matures?? He's getting towards 7 though now and well, the penny is yet to drop that it's perfectly ok to be calm!
 
Sol said:
Bless, he is lovely though :p
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Yes I wouldn't swap him for the world...they are such a fab breed I don't think I could have anything else now. He does his moment mind you, on thursday he ate his light switch and left us in darkness for 2 days and today he went under the electric tape and into the lush green grazing...bad pony!
 
I ride a warmblood that has come with issues. At some point in her past someone has tried to back her and has seriously scared her. She is the sweetest creature and easy to do now but lacks confidence. In her own environment at home, where she is confident, she is becoming more forward and working well. However this is a different scenario once at a show. Once she is somewhere unfamiliar she looses all forwardness and reverts into herself - it is the strangest feeling, like she literally has lead boots on. Now, we are just going to take her out as much as possible until she feels confident and happy and hopefully then goes forward like she can. She is a super honest horse, who never spooks or is silly just genuinely lacking in confindence.
 
trendybraincell said:
Yes I wouldn't swap him for the world...they are such a fab breed I don't think I could have anything else now. He does his moment mind you, on thursday he ate his light switch and left us in darkness for 2 days and today he went under the electric tape and into the lush green grazing...bad pony!
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haha, I'm sure all was forgiven though ;) Dante flooded his stable during the snow, and also spent a fortnight jumping out of his field/killing the electric fence. He now has his own field on a hill, and spends his day being 'king of the castle' which his is very happy about :p
 
Jackpotsstud said:
I ride a warmblood that has come with issues. At some point in her past someone has tried to back her and has seriously scared her. She is the sweetest creature and easy to do now but lacks confidence. In her own environment at home, where she is confident, she is becoming more forward and working well. However this is a different scenario once at a show. Once she is somewhere unfamiliar she looses all forwardness and reverts into herself - it is the strangest feeling, like she literally has lead boots on. Now, we are just going to take her out as much as possible until she feels confident and happy and hopefully then goes forward like she can. She is a super honest horse, who never spooks or is silly just genuinely lacking in confindence.
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Shame, I hope you can get there with her :) Confidence seems to be such a fragile thing :/
 
I know from experience with my old pony he was the most confident thing around. He did what he wanted when he wanted, I never knew him shy at thing and anything that might be interesting he always went up to and sussed out what was going on :)

My current boy is very. Before we got him he had a pretty awful time, he was abused and mistreated and as a result of that he uses people as a safety blanket, however it doesn't always work. If he is being lead he wanders along and doesn't bat an eyelid however the second the person on the ground gets on him he forgets he actually still has someone to trust :( We have really worked hard on this though. We found the way to help this was food :rolleyes: he is a native pony and he loves his food. We found that everytime he was ridden as long as you had a pack of polo's with you so if he got upset rather than getting off and leading him you could get them out, rustle the packet abit and then when he payed attention he was allowed one. It really isn't the most orthodox way of horse training I know :o but we were at a loss and 3 and 1/2 years on I still hack and compete with something in my pocekt incase we get in a muddle :) :p
 
Sol said:
Bless, he is lovely though :p (all of the lovely Welshies on this forum are making me want a BIG one though - I already have a Sec A! xD) And you never know, he might find his 'sparkle' at comps yet :) And I understand what you mean about the level-headedness...I thought I'd found a level headed one, but then he got a bit older and lost the plot :eek: I'm hoping normality will return as he matures?? He's getting towards 7 though now and well, the penny is yet to drop that it's perfectly ok to be calm!
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Welshies are very often good from 1 to 5 then turn into kevin or the spook monster in their late 5th and all the 6th year. Then once they turn 7 change back again. My friend thought I was nuts until her WC mare followed the same path :D

My WB certainly lacks confidence when anyone else rides him, he makes me look like I have an electric bum (which I don't) he just goes all scared and won't go forward. Which it totally opposite of what I have.

So there is no reason why they can't be the same in different places
 
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