Confidence Crisis - Sorry a tad lengthy

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Winklepoker

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I have a young (5) Irish bred TB mare who was pretty much unbroken when I bought her a year ago. She is a little quirky on the ground when turning out/in but other than that, very passive and easy to do. I feel that I have missed out some of the fundamental training in her program that is now coming back to bite me on the ar*e! I am now questioning my ability to be able to take this mare on to the next stage. She is the boldest horse I have ever sat on and will take any fences regardless of height (wire/walls/ditches/fillers/water trays/etc) that you put her at. However, she is convinced that her way is best and as long as you let her work it out she is happy, mess with her stride/speed/head into a fence and she gets cross! On the flat, she works well can do shoulder in/leg yeild/travers/renvers/half-pirouettes etc in walk and some in trot but canter is a total an utter mess. She goes disunited and rushes, legs flalling all over the shop. I have just learned how to stop her leaning on the right rein creating slight counter flexion but I just cant seem to feel any progress in other areas. I think because the progression was so obvious in the beginning, now they are baby steps and most backward ones, I feel I am a hindrence rather than the teacher!

I am considering looking into schooling livery or similar, as my head hurts from constant ramming on the brick wall!! Also, I feel very unsupported and under-estimated by a few people around me and doubt my ability so very much, which does not help one jot! I have no real aim to look to which is maybe an answer, one day she is going to be a dressage horse, climbing the BD levels, the next its BS or BE and other days a good looking field ornament seem apt! Maybe if I had a focus it would be easier? Please help me work out what to do for the best. My mare is so talented I want to do her justice.


All I have is diet coke and a free manicure to offer those who have read this (I have a rather tiny dress to pour myself into tonight so food is banned!!!).
 
Well she sounds like an eventer in the making if she is that bold!

So firstly, well done on how far you have come. Secondly - no big deal about making a decision about the path to tread - see which you prefer.

Couple of things jump out at me, being a mare, they often to be opinated and think they know best so you need to try to work with her not against her. I think the idea of a schooling livery is a good one and one where you can then come up and work with your mare as she progresses. The yard I am at will be taking in schooling liveries, albeit with an eventing slant - the first couple have gone on to do very well and the one that went locally is still having lessons with the original rider to keep all on track. We are in Surrey so not a million miles away if you are interested.
 
IP, just give her and yourself a bit of time, take it one small step at a time and most of all - relax.
She's doing well, she has come on miles.
As to a goal... think what you A) really want to do and B) what you can realistically afford to do (both money and time wise). There is nothing stopping you dipping your toes in all disciplines:)
Balanced canter takes time to establish, and a lot of effort, but it will all come together eventually.
If you want schooling livery - go for it, it can't do any harm and it might not necessarily solve all the problems, but at least send you on the right road. You're welcome to bring her here, you know that :)... OR you could get F to school her for you, you'll soon be going to Olympics :p ;)
 
She sounds like a lovely mare :)

I would perhaps go back to basics with the schooling and just get her really really on the aids and then once she is consistently working in to the contact and not leaning on you at all - I would start all the lateral work and work on collecting and lengthening stride etc again!

This back to basics schooling and getting her perfect in certain areas before advancing to more difficult ones should in the end introduce some more manners when she is jumping!!

Alternatively, try and find a new/better instructor and just concentrate on flat work for a while - after all, no one can run before they can walk - as it were!!

Pole work will also help and will eventually teach her not to rush - you can use it to lengthen and shorten strides and making her do what you want between the poles - not what she wants! Once the flatwork is mannerly and consistent I would introduce grid work - again this will stop her rushing!

Above all else - believe in yourself and don't let negative comments get to you. Only constructive comments are useful, especially with a young horse!!

She is your horse so you should be the one benefitting from her talent - not a schooling yard!!

You CAN do it so keep on if I were you!! :)
 
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IP - have you had a mare before? You can't 'tell them what to do' you have to 'ask them nicey' :p If you've got a good one, she'll be worth her weight in gold and you will get a lot of enjoyment out of her.

Keeping yourself motivated is hard at the best of times; if you also have 'oxygen thieves' who are undermining your efforts as well, you need to move on and ignore - easily said, difficult done. Get a good, supportive trainer who you can use as a sounding board. If she's [your mare] is as promising and she sounds - enjoy :)
 
Sounds like you've done brilliantly so far!!

I agree that taking her flat work back a notch will help with the balance she needs in canter.
Transitions, transitions, transitions...

My lad sounds very similar. Although he is older, he is bred the same, has the 'leave it to me and we'll both be fine' attitude and gets highly annoyed with anyone trying to tell him different.

Grids may help her slow up in her jumping - at least they will get her thinking about placing her feet.

Also, I hope I'm not teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but a lot of trainers advocate adopting a very light seat in canter with horses that are a bit unbalanced. Getting off their backs helps them sort themselves out.

Good luck. She sounds like a fab horse and well done for getting as far as you have with her. We all have down days when we doubt our ability (I'm having one today :() but they pass and it will all be worth it in the end.
 
Luci07 - Thanks, I will have a think, I have a flat lesson with Sarah Loveday Lovell tomorrow so I will reassess then and hopefully she will have a sit on and we can take it from there.

martlin - re;canter, you are right re; F, you couldnt be further from it!! :D I'll PM you the latest! Thanks for the boost :)


Jess1 - She really is a lovely mare, and running before we can walk is where I have gone wrong. My building blocks are all in the wrong order! Lateral work before we can even canter a 20m!! What was I thinking, back to school for us I think :) Very very helpful thanks so much.

Foxy53 - No, never had much to do with mares if Im honest. She is my first. I am constantly reminding myself that I need to be more patient and she will become more loyal. Re; oxygen thieves, unfortunately I try waaaaaay to hard to please everyone and be nice that I have made myself look a blithering idiot when infact I am more than capable :D (trumpet... blowing it before it rusts!)
 
If you do decide to go down the schooling livery route, can I offer you some advice.Make sure you know EXACTLY who is going to do the schooling.Many places will tell you of the wunderkind they employ who has trained with this person, competed at that level etc.It may not be him/her doing the schooling on your horse though.Might be the girl who you see sweeping up.She may be decent, maybe not.Ask how many times a week your horse will be schooled and what sort of things they will be doing.Try and go down regularly to watch.
 
Grrr I just wrote you a really long reply and I lost it!

Basically I said that I feel the same way about J. But I think you (and I) just need to relax and be proud of what we have achieved. Look at all the things India can now do because of you that she couldnt do a year ago! Shes only bold jumping because you have taught her properly and she trusts you. The flatwork will come with lessons and once her canter is better, Jumping will be easier.

I dont think anyone else schooling her will help as it wont be working on your partnership like lessons do.

Also she is only 5. You potentially have another 20 years of being together and think of all the things you will do in that time! It doesn't all need to happen now, the journey is part of the fun :)

Im bad for discipline hopping. I like doing different things and it does make it harder to progress in one discipline but i'm just trying to give my horse an allround education and theres bits about dressage/showjumping (even showing!!) that I enjoy!

J's backman came the other day, he's very good and went to the WEG with the british event team. He said that J was something really special and that I should event him as he would go far. I was happy but also a bit sad because to me Intro looks huge and if I even did that it would be an achievement! J is never going to set the world alight with me. I'm doing the 70cm tomorrow when I know he could walk round the BN with his eyes closed, were jumping 1m at home but I don't want my nerves to affect him.

I think with horses you just need to concentrate on yourself and your horse and don't listen to those people who try and put you down or make you feel like you aren't doing what you should be doing.

I try and remember that iv'e achieved a lot more with J then a lot of other people may have done and he's my horse and I will have fun on him and do what I want to do with him! Iv'e made mistakes that I could have kicked myself about afterwards but thats life, its how we learn and as long as we learn and don't repeat the mistake, horses will adapt.

I think you should just be really proud of how far you have come and all the work you have put in. Try and focus on all the good things :)
 
I don't agree that someone else benefits when you put your horse onto a schooling livery - crikey what sort of schooling did you guys get? A proper schooling livery is when the horse is worked out WITH the owner being involved AND getting on themselves once the horse has had some training. It can save a huge amount of time in ensuring that communications for horse and rider are going on the right lines.

As for the oxygen thieves... I have no idea who they are/never met them but I would be willing to put money on the fact that they themselves have not actually competed to any great level or achieved a lot on their horses. I have yet to find any horseperson who has actually "been there" who sees the need to brag. Doesn't ring true though for a lot of other basic riders who think they do know it all and feel compelled to spread their knowledge around. Next time you are offered "advice" just smile sweetly and point out you pay for a professionial opinion from some one you respect (your trainer) and are therefore choosing to work on her recommendations and no longer muddy the water. They can hardly argue with that!
 
IP you have done a brilliant job so far - you are always in such a rush to progress you just forget to look back and recognise how far you have come!! India is not an easy mare but like some of the other posters point out thats because she could be brilliant - and I personally would bet money on it if you carry on with the same dedication and skills you have invested so far. Don't give up on yourself or the mare, you know you can do this but you are so right in that you have to remain a little more aloof from those who think they know better (for sure they don't!!). Bottom line keep believing in yourself, lean on the one who will always support you!!, keep your own counsel a bit more or you end up confused and above all "have a little patience" as those boys would say, you will succeed and big time xx
 
greymare said:
IP you have done a brilliant job so far - you are always in such a rush to progress you just forget to look back and recognise how far you have come!! India is not an easy mare but like some of the other posters point out thats because she could be brilliant - and I personally would bet money on it if you carry on with the same dedication and skills you have invested so far. Don't give up on yourself or the mare, you know you can do this but you are so right in that you have to remain a little more aloof from those who think they know better (for sure they don't!!). Bottom line keep believing in yourself, lean on the one who will always support you!!, keep your own counsel a bit more or you end up confused and above all "have a little patience" as those boys would say, you will succeed and big time xx
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I LOVE YOU GM :D tee hee hee... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! xxx
 
Firewell - Thanks for the confidence boost, you know as well as I do how it feels! Thanks everyone for all the comments, I really need to just focus on the now and stop feeling so pressured into getting it 100% right, 100% of the time. It really isnt going to happen and the poor mare is a saint to put up with me bobbling about on top (usually with my girth half undone, hey GM!! ;) )
 
Indiapony, No worries and you will get there :), it just takes time!! :)

If she is a difficult mare you need to consider that she might not fully appreciate the change of home and rider if you did decide to send her away for schooling!

She'll come good and if she is half as good as you say - see you at Badminton in a few years :) ;)

Good Luck!!
 
Jess1 said:
Indiapony, No worries and you will get there :), it just takes time!! :)

If she is a difficult mare you need to consider that she might not fully appreciate the change of home and rider if you did decide to send her away for schooling!

She'll come good and if she is half as good as you say - see you at Badminton in a few years :) ;)

Good Luck!!
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Badders??!! - You're bl**dy taking her round then!! I'll stand at the finish with the rug!!
 
my first thought is keep doing what you are doing and dont let it get you down! Horses are designed to make us feel useless most of the time! Just give her more time and im sure she'll get there evebtually. if at any time you do hit a brick wall though, maybe a couple of weeks livery would do good, for a fresh set of eyes on the problems. They can hopefully get her going and then you come in to ride her there with them instructing after a couple of weeks. We get a few people coming to us for exactly this - got a problem with their horse and have got as afr as they can on their own. they bring them in, we work through the problems then instruct the owners in the school as to how to avoid and overcome them in the future. It can be quite hard to teach someone how to overcome something unless you have experienced it yourself and know exactly how it feels.

Hang in there first though!
 
Indiapony said:
Firewell - Thanks for the confidence boost, you know as well as I do how it feels! Thanks everyone for all the comments, I really need to just focus on the now and stop feeling so pressured into getting it 100% right, 100% of the time. It really isnt going to happen and the poor mare is a saint to put up with me bobbling about on top (usually with my girth half undone, hey GM!! ;) )
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Ha ha!! Bobbling your not, as for the girth ..... well just proves you have a secure seat or you would have been hanging off the side after she shot off following each jump!!!!
 
baby steps and patience ? ask a mare,tell a gelding talk it over with a stallion dont let the oxygen thieves interfere if theres no panic as you havent decided a career for her yet why not have some fun? do something a bit different- bit of le trec for example an hour or twos hunting in good company take the pressure off enjoy and if you do have to take a baby step backwards its only a baby step find something she really enjoys or can do very well to end schooling sessions so you always end on a good note (i taught billy to turn on the forehand now he just does it to show off even without being asked because he knows he'l get a reward and praise not always at the most convienent times!!!)
 
Can I join you in the Sport Horse baby steps clique? Due to start riding our ISH mare again early next year. Tried last year but she said no (I fell off over the back when she went vertical), since found out the saddle was an issue, hoping it was 'the' issue. Not in this mares nature to be naughty, usually very honest & brave. Just a bit nervous as I am used to 15.1hh arabs, 16.3 ISH (7/8 tb, 1/8 ID) means long way up & long way down...Very used to mares (never owned a gelding, also used to ride a stallion), fingers crossed can gain her confidence & she will start to work for me, absolutely gorgeous mare, paces to die for.
 
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