Conformation for an eventer

H

horse-lover

Member
Joined
18 January 2016
Messages
23
Visit site
Hello this is my first post here, been lurking for a while! I'm in the process of buying my first horse so am very excited but also don't want to make a mistake as I would like a horse for life. I'm looking for an eventer and have whittled it down to two horses. They are very far away from me so only want to see them if there is a great possibility. Would any one be willing to look at a couple of photos of them and give me some opinions on their conformation in terms of being good for eventing? Thank you!
 
Confirmation isn't the be and end all though. Are both these horses proven? I have had horses who were picture perfect for eventing and weren't great and my best horse to date who really took me places was a TB x Cob.
 
Thank you kassieg, I will pm you :)
Luci07, they are young so have only just started their training but their parents are extremely succesful and from what the breeder has described their characters very suited (brave, huge stamina, energy, love moving, highly intelligent and independent thinking....) however this still doesn't prove anything I know so am a bit unsure...
 
It doesn't. I had a Primitive Rising gelding so on paper, I was well away. However he was very opinionated and lacked the courage you want in an event horse. I had him in a clinic with Lucinda Green who was initially very taken with him, by the end, she wasn't sure a pro would be successful with him. If your babies have already started training over fixed and coloured fences and are looking to be bold than that would go a long way - obviously you can't be sure how far they will go but at least you will know you can get started. I do now place a lot of reliance on breeding lines - there are certain traits which really do seem to swing through. A friend bought a 4 year old of Donal Barnwell who of course knows his stuff and that horse at 11 is now intermediate so it does work!
 
When looking at a horse to event the last thing you ever look at is the passport. If its not correct in its build and temperament nothing in its breeding will change that.
If you are looking to buy for keeps conformation is the important first requirement why take risks with injuries etc further down the line ,I know its not foolproof but poorly put together horses on the whole have more issues.
 
I would also recommend that you see more than 2 horses. You don't say how experienced you are but you do say this will be your first horse which leads me to think you are perhaps not that experienced? There is nothing wrong with that, but I think you should see as many as possible, taking along an experienced instructor or friend, because there are many more aspects to a horse that makes them wrong or right for you than just conformation. Don't be in a hurry to choose - the right horse will come along at the right time.
 
In terms of experience I actually wouldn't know what to say! I used to be... I spent my whole childhood and teenagehood competing with my pony very seriously in eventing. It was my life.. And he was on diy so I did everything myself. But then I left the horse world as i went to 6th form and took a break for many years. Last year i got back into it having private lessons 4 times a week so have been riding intensely but this really does feel like a new door opening again.. And this will be my first horse as an adult after all this time... Im just desperate to get back that beautiful life I had years ago... I just turned 30 and am in a financial and stable place so thought it could be good timing! But yes i agree, i need to see so many more, i'm just eager to get going :)
 
I will happily take a look for you horselover. I would not get caught up in the pedigree too much, although I would be interested in the horse's siblings and damline, in terms of producing competitors. There's a saying 'a passport never jumped a pole' and it's very true.

Then it depends on what level you aspire to go to, a huge number of horses will do BE100 competently but if you're looking to go upper level that will narrow the field. Send me on a link, I'd be interested in seeing what you have found.
 
The other caveat if you ar really keen to get going is that you are going to be on a go slow with a 4 year old for a year or so. I was at an event yard with a lot of 4 year olds coming through and there was the hope/expectation that they would get to BYEH as 4 or 5 year olds but in reality, most weren't ready for it physically. I also found that there would often be another attack of the Kevin's often at 4!. I know others are saying ignore the breeding but if you do your research, you will find which lines are more suitable for pro's. Of course there will be the odd exception but as a 1 horse owner, you don't have the luxury of running a few to see what happens. Also, don't assume an Irish bred horse is automatically straightforward, they are as diverse as any other breed!
 
Last edited:
I have seen a fair few 3 day eventers with unknown parents and that was at the international horse trials at Blair last year.

But breeding can matter. I doubt my horse would be as talented as he is with a regular sire. He needed a bit extra since his dam is nothing special. His sire is wow in comparison. He also looks the part as his conformation is fairly ok. Could do eventing if his rider wasn't a coward. :p
 
I think my point is being misunderstood. Good breeding does not automatically make a top horse. My point is that if you do a bit of research, you will find out which lines you would to avoid if you are an amateur. So as an eg, everything I have ever come across with Animo in its breeding is very very sharp. Talented, yet, jumps, yes. Straightforward, no. Jazz is another one. He is reknown for producing great moving horses but they are very rarely easy and can seriously test their riders. I know I haven't necessarily picked event lines, I was trying to show examples.
 
If it's your first horse, buy something established who knows his job. you may have ridden competitively on a pony but horses are a different ballgame and school horses don't prepare you for bringing on a youngster. You'll probably disagree but I've seen too many people struggle, unless you have lots of money to pay for professionals to sort things out when they go wrong, don't buy a young horse, especially something that is well bred for eventing!
 
Luci07 said:
I think my point is being misunderstood. Good
breeding does not automatically make a top horse. My point is that if you do a bit of research, you will find out which lines you would to avoid if you are an amateur. So as an eg, everything I have ever come across with Animo in its breeding is very very sharp. Talented, yet, jumps, yes. Straightforward, no. Jazz is another one. He is reknown for producing great moving horses but they are very rarely easy and can seriously test their riders. I know I haven't necessarily picked event lines, I was trying to show examples.
Click to expand...

No definitely not. The sire of my horse is rubin star n who I have found is like his sire rubinstein and produces nice calm but talented horses. Just luck really i got that as I didn't check his passport before buying. Can get some dodgy horses though seen some spirited and badly behaved horses that were not cheap and have good lines apparently.

Like i say though seen top horses with unknown breeding. God knows what they have but it didn't stop them being great horses.
 
Illusion100 said:
I'm going to agree with oldie48.

A first Event horse should be one for you to learn on, not to teach.

Happy shopping! :)
Click to expand...

Exactly .my point was the last thing you ever look at is the breeding and that can be the bonus . I have seen far to many people get carried away by whats in the passport and miss the obvious.
 
Luci07 said:
It doesn't. I had a Primitive Rising gelding so on paper, I was well away. However he was very opinionated and lacked the courage you want in an event horse. I had him in a clinic with Lucinda Green who was initially very taken with him, by the end, she wasn't sure a pro would be successful with him. If your babies have already started training over fixed and coloured fences and are looking to be bold than that would go a long way - obviously you can't be sure how far they will go but at least you will know you can get started. I do now place a lot of reliance on breeding lines - there are certain traits which really do seem to swing through. A friend bought a 4 year old of Donal Barnwell who of course knows his stuff and that horse at 11 is now intermediate so it does work!
Click to expand...

See this is typical of looking at what you think is good breeding for eventing. Most people who know much about event breeding will tell you what you had in your Primitive rising was what you would expect. They were in general opinionated and sulky however very talented in professional hands . The problem is unless you actually can get deep down into pedigrees what is perceived as great breeding because a sire has lots of offspring at top level,more often than not the average rider can never cope with that sires offspring. I breed the majority of my mares to good performing stallions that may be unfashionable but I know the run of the mill rider can handle them and go on to maybe int if they want to but will also behave well enough for somebody who is happy to stick at 90. One or two top mares each year go to the top sires however these are never destned to go into the general market,they will be produced with a buyer in mind as they need the right home.
 
I had an Interesting and frank conversation with the dealer I bought my horse off. He sees a lot of people whose opinion of their ability is not reflected in their riding. Maybe it's my age but I had no problem with being extremely specific about what I could cope with and my ability. On paper I am an experienced amateur but owning your own horses for years and sometimes riding friends horses does not give you the experience and breadth of a pro. This might seem obvious but it would appear most people don't think like that. I spent a lot of time looking at breeding of the "lower level" eventers ridden successfully by amateurs although I ended up buying a horse with nothing I recognised. He did, however, exactly what I wanted and passed myself, my pro event and vet. Breeding for amateurs is a great idea and one I would embrace. Trouble is a lot of people would think that would be below their ability. If we as a one horse shop make an error buying a horse it takes us a while to understand, pick up an try again. Plus we get fiercely attached and keep trying..
 
Luci07 said:
I had an Interesting and frank conversation with the dealer I bought my horse off. He sees a lot of people whose opinion of their ability is not reflected in their riding. Maybe it's my age but I had no problem with being extremely specific about what I could cope with and my ability. On paper I am an experienced amateur but owning your own horses for years and sometimes riding friends horses does not give you the experience and breadth of a pro. This might seem obvious but it would appear most people don't think like that. I spent a lot of time looking at breeding of the "lower level" eventers ridden successfully by amateurs although I ended up buying a horse with nothing I recognised. He did, however, exactly what I wanted and passed myself, my pro event and vet. Breeding for amateurs is a great idea and one I would embrace. Trouble is a lot of people would think that would be below their ability. If we as a one horse shop make an error buying a horse it takes us a while to understand, pick up an try again. Plus we get fiercely attached and keep trying..
Click to expand...

That is very true ! Pro riders are very quick to let a horse go if they dont feel its right,they cannot afford to be sentimental. Lets just say some are not always careful about the other persons ability when they sell the horse on. When buying to event it is very helpful to have somebody who knows what they are doing to help in choice for a one horse buyer.
There are lots of horses I would not take people to see because of the breeding which sounds unfair but why waste your time trasvelling however I like to think I would never buy a horse because of its breeding. Nearly did once with a youngster that had top marks in eventing futurity nationally full sibling was int at six and successful. Decided to go and look(rather than unseen) because honestly it was cheap for what it was,saw an issue . long story short somebody paid a lot of money for something that has never competed and last I saw advertised as a broodmare. That was a near miss for me but a disater to the person who bought her.
 
Unfortunately, I think a lot of amateurs are unwittingly looking for the same things as the professional eventers and that can cause problems. No doubt many are following pros on social media etc and naturally absorb their opinions on buying a horse. Then they too want to opt for something similar and can end up over horsing themselves. For instance pros want a lot of blood, maybe 80%, but this is totally uneccessary for novices. Even at the pro end, take a look at the pedigrees of 3* and 4* horses and many have only about 50%, but they may have inherited a lot of athleticism.

It's the same with the breeding lines, some that are known for being sharp aren't always that way. Each horse is an individual as we all know and some will defy their breeding. Then there's backbreeding, that so informs what the horse is beyond his dam and sire.

As an agent it can be a little frustrating to have someone tell you they will not look at any Cruising horses as they are meant to be sharp and you happen to know of a brilliant, quiet one who would suit them down to the ground! Last week I had some lovely riders over looking for sensible all-rounders. They tried an event bred Harlequin X Cruising, who was so good natured and kind that he could almost have done RDA. He was streets ahead of the full draught they also tried, in terms of temperament and rideability. Yet on paper you would expect the opposite result.

I was chatting about this recently with the man who stood Stan the Man, sire of La Biosthetique Sam, arguably the best eventer in the world. He's bred a lot of TBs and remarked how you can come across Connemaras that are whole lot sharper than them! So when people adopt a one size fits all mentality, often unwittingly, they can be complicating and obstructing their own search for the right horse.
 
Firstly, to the OP I would definitely suggest looking for a horse who is up and running and doing the job you want already, rather than an unproven youngster. I would also look carefully at who you buy from. There are some pro or semi-pro riders who have the knack of getting the best out of any horse, and then sell them on to amateur homes. However, the new rider often lacks the skill and experience in both riding and management to get similar results from the horse. Often a better bet is the horse who has been ridden by a run of the mill amateur, even if the results on paper are not so good. Another option you could consider is having an older eventing schoolmaster on loan for a year or so, this would give you valuable experience and set you up to buy an event youngster in the future.

On the question of breeding, I think the younger and more unproven the horse the more breeding matters. If you buy something unbroken, you can make an assessment of basic conformation, paces and general temperament, but the breeding can help give you a bit more of a clue whether it might be the type to do the job you want. On the other hand, if you are looking at 10yo who has been there, seen it, done it, you are unlikely to really care much about breeding because you already know it is up to the job!
 
Last edited:
Irish gal said:
Unfortunately, I think a lot of amateurs are unwittingly looking for the same things as the professional eventers and that can cause problems. No doubt many are following pros on social media etc and naturally absorb their opinions on buying a horse. Then they too want to opt for something similar and can end up over horsing themselves. For instance pros want a lot of blood, maybe 80%, but this is totally uneccessary for novices. Even at the pro end, take a look at the pedigrees of 3* and 4* horses and many have only about 50%, but they may have inherited a lot of athleticism.

It's the same with the breeding lines, some that are known for being sharp aren't always that way. Each horse is an individual as we all know and some will defy their breeding. Then there's backbreeding, that so informs what the horse is beyond his dam and sire.

As an agent it can be a little frustrating to have someone tell you they will not look at any Cruising horses as they are meant to be sharp and you happen to know of a brilliant, quiet one who would suit them down to the ground! Last week I had some lovely riders over looking for sensible all-rounders. They tried an event bred Harlequin X Cruising, who was so good natured and kind that he could almost have done RDA. He was streets ahead of the full draught they also tried, in terms of temperament and rideability. Yet on paper you would expect the opposite result.

I was chatting about this recently with the man who stood Stan the Man, sire of La Biosthetique Sam, arguably the best eventer in the world. He's bred a lot of TBs and remarked how you can come across Connemaras that are whole lot sharper than them! So when people adopt a one size fits all mentality, often unwittingly, they can be complicating and obstructing their own search for the right horse.
Click to expand...

I would have looked at the Harlequin X Cruising! Yes Cruising tends to throw sharp horses but Harlequin seems to throw really laid back and nice horses.
 
Luci07 said:
I had an Interesting and frank conversation
with the dealer I bought my horse off. He sees a lot of people whose opinion of their ability is not reflected in their riding. Maybe it's my age but I had no problem with being extremely specific about what I could cope with and my ability. On paper I am an experienced amateur but owning your own horses for years and sometimes riding friends horses does not give you the experience and breadth of a pro. This might seem obvious but it would appear most people don't think like that. I spent a lot of time looking at breeding of the "lower level" eventers ridden successfully by amateurs although I ended up buying a horse with nothing I recognised. He did, however, exactly what I wanted and passed myself, my pro event and vet. Breeding for amateurs is a great idea and one I would embrace. Trouble is a lot of people would think that would be below their ability. If we as a one horse shop make an error buying a horse it takes us a while to understand, pick up an try again. Plus we get fiercely attached and keep trying..
Click to expand...

I did the same with everyone I contacted about a horse. A lot of people were honest and said the it horse wasn't suitable for me. Just wanted a horse that would help me get my confidence back and not frighten me so nothing that bolted or spooked badly. I can ride well but back then I was a mess. No point in trying to buy a difficult horse that would have terrified me into never riding again.
 
TGM said:
Firstly, to the OP I would definitely suggest looking for a horse who is up and running and doing the job you want already, rather than an unproven youngster. I would also look carefully at who you buy from. There are some pro or semi-pro riders who have the knack of getting the best out of any horse, and then sell them on to amateur homes. However, the new rider often lacks the skill and experience in both riding and management to get similar results from the horse. Often a better bet is the horse who has been ridden by a run of the mill amateur, even if the results on paper are not so good. Another option you could consider is having an older eventing schoolmaster on loan for a year or so, this would give you valuable experience and set you up to buy an event youngster in the future.

On the question of breeding, I think the younger and more unproven the horse the more breeding matters. If you buy something unbroken, you can make an assessment of basic conformation, paces and general temperament, but the breeding can help give you a bit more of a clue whether it might be the type to do the job you want. On the other hand, if you are looking at 10yo who has been there, seen it, done it, you are unlikely to really care much about breeding because you already know it is up to the job!
Click to expand...

100% agree with the above. Are you looking for a potential Badminton horse, or something to take out and about and have fun? Bringing on a young horse is HARD work and there are numerous setbacks and disappointments, although it is also rewarding. Maybe find a schoolmaster type and have fun for a couple of years and then look for a youngster to bring on. When you have a young horse it is such a relief to be able to climb on board your old faithfull that you can enjoy a ride/competition without having to be 6 steps ahead all the time.
 
Hello, just want to say thank you all for your opinions! Really, really helpful. I wasn't planning on looking for a youngster, I was sort of thinking the 7/8 year old mark.. No way any younger than 6... I understand what you are saying about getting an older one but I really want a horse for life and don't want to think about selling on so wouldn't really want to get anything too old.. I think the best thing for me to do now is view as many horses as possible to get an idea. I've asked my trainer to come along to the promising ones so hopefully will get some guidance there. Your posts have all been very informative and made me re-think some important stuff! :) x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top