Confused, any ideas?

Serenity087

Serenity087

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Dorey has for the last couple of months been working funny on one leg.

I've had physio out and a blockage was found (in reiki terms) but otherwise she is fine. Bute hasn't made an iota of difference so it's not pain!

She has a slightly twisted pelvis which is too old an injury to sort out and two physios have confirmed this.
The idea is that because her pelvis is slightly out, the leg she isn't using right has to work harder so she finds it hard.

The thing is, she has been using it fine, over compensating for months without problem.

And to top it off, she's picking and choosing when to use it. The other day she was borderline lame on the lunge because she didn't want to use it (mud fever isn't helping) but was then fine on a hack, perfectly balanced. Today she was a witch on a hack and worked fine on the lunge.

I'm pinning it on the fact her workload has cut back and she has gotton lazy and is evading, so I'm upping her lunging and pole work again. She also has mud fever which is problematic so I'm going to sedate her, cut her feathers off and give them a good look at (she won't let me touch her heels atm!)

Anyone else think I'm barking up the right tree? Any other ideas? We have a bucketload of stretches from both physios which don't seem to make a difference (one of them she won't do due to mud fever... which says a lot imo!). However, when she decides to work fine she works fine!!!

Can I illiterate, she is not lame, she is not in pain and the physio can't find anything physically wrong with her legs or back. Does anyone else have any more suggestions?
 
Have you had a chiropractor out? They work differently to a physio. My horse has a pelvis issue - basically one side gets stuck upright and he keeps the leg on that side straight and swings his other leg around to protect it. He isn't lame either unless he does very hard work (endurance rides) and not everytime. However the chiro can manipulate it and restore function (unlike physio), they will also advise what work to do after and will need more than one session. Worth a try :D
 
Not getting a chiropractor out at all. There is too much wrong with the bones and a chiro would only make her worse.

This is on the advice of not one but TWO seperate physios!!!!!!

She has never had a serious accident with me which puts her 10 years with the bones out. Can of hugely ginormous flesh eating horse destroying worms in there!!!!!
 
Load of tosh! A chiro will not treat the horse if they think they will make anything worse! If she has bone issues then they need addressing. A physio is not the same as a chiro so how can they advise on a chiropractic issue?! Without one you will still have the pelvis issue and the problems you have now so either treat the horse as it requires or carry on but expect further problems as you go.
 
and if a chiro agrees they will mimic what she said so whats the fear? have one of the top chiro's the top physio works with.
 
one presumes you've consulted a veterinary professional... physiotherapists are all very well, but if you're looking for a diagnosis, you really should consult the appropriately trained folk...
 
Do you think that it might just be the mud fever causing it? If the skin is sore and tight that could alter her movement a bit. Could exacerbate the compensating movement if you know what I mean?

I agree that after such a longstanding injury a chiro might not do much good but would doubt that they would worsen the problem. I think physio is the way forward for most things, horse and human.
 
Im confused that you are confused... surely only thing to do is get the chiropractor out.

otherwise its like going to an optometrist for toothache.
 
Kirstie, I do think it's the mud fever (although it has outlasted the problem...) as she won't stretch because of it!! Now if she won't stretch, she probably won't use it properly!

I suspect it may have caused the reiki block too!

A chiro would work if I wanted to sort the bone problem. But she has worked fine for months with the same bone problem and despite some balanace issues when she was younger she has never had these problems before. Despite the bone problems her muscle is sound.

JFTD - I can't see the point in calling a vet to examine a horse who has nothing physically wrong apart from the fact she no longer stretches a back leg. If after sedation I find the mud fever is worse than I thought I will get her on antibiotics but other than that there's little wrong a vet can do without referring a physio...
 
sounds like the mud fever is making her lame. if you have ever had a deep heel crack on your foot you know THAT hurts like hell let alone a big animal with sores all over her heels. must be agony! she wont even let you near them!? that speeks volumes to me plus she will try and compensate for pain relief leaving other joints sore. my thoughts.. get that mud fever sorted get her skellington seen to and start again! slowly!
 
ThePinkPony said:
Im confused that you are confused... surely only thing to do is get the chiropractor out.

otherwise its like going to an optometrist for toothache.
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Why do I want to pay for someone to tell me her pelvis is slightly rotated so that the left hand side is slightly more forward than the right and that the vertebrae between her pelvis and her tail aren't exactly in line?

If she was a competition horse, yes, straighten it, get it all sorted, get months of chiro work to keep putting bones back in place, physio work to keep changing the muscle, lots of pain for poor Dorey.

Or.

I could just keep working on building up the right muscles so that she can work right around a problem she's had for a very very long time?

I mean, I can certainly sort out a chiro, against two professionals advice, but it'd only be to prove myself right on this one.
 
binkymerlin said:
sounds like the mud fever is making her lame. if you have ever had a deep heel crack on your foot you know THAT hurts like hell let alone a big animal with sores all over her heels. must be agony! she wont even let you near them!? that speeks volumes to me plus she will try and compensate for pain relief leaving other joints sore. my thoughts.. get that mud fever sorted get her skellington seen to and start again! slowly!
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Binkymerlin, you've just made me feel horrifically guilty... of course if her heels are sore she'll over compensate and it will only make other joints sore!! I completely missed that one!!!!

Heavy duty mudfever treatment it is then, then we'll see how she goes. Thank you for you opinion!!!
 
Serenity087 said:
JFTD - I can't see the point in calling a vet to examine a horse who has nothing physically wrong apart from the fact she no longer stretches a back leg. If after sedation I find the mud fever is worse than I thought I will get her on antibiotics but other than that there's little wrong a vet can do without referring a physio...
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Nonsense, that is what lameness work ups are for - you described her as "practically lame" at points - any gait abnormality is a form of lameness, and whether than lameness is intermittent or not, a diagnosis should be sought. re-reading your op, I tend to agree with the consensus regarding the mud fever. I can't think why you have allowed the mud fever to become so bad that you can't check her feathers and be aware of her condition, though.
 
Is is definitely mud fever? I only say because it's been so dry. She could have that other thing, forget what it's called that looks like mud fever but is a real pain in the backside to get rid of. V sore as well.
Very common in greys.

Would get those feathers off asap and if it doesn't start clearing soon after you've started treating it, it might be worth having a word with the vet to treat it more aggressively.
 
Serenity087 said:
Ps. she isn't lame. She has gone from perfect tracking up to stopping a few inches short on one leg, which is making her very uncomfortable to trot on one diagonal as the other leg is still working fine!
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Fits my definition of lameness...

the aaep lameness scale:
Grade 1: Difficult to observe; not consistently apparent regardless of circumstances (weight carrying, circling, inclines, hard surfaces, etc.)

Grade 2: Difficult to observe at the walk or trotting a straight line; consistently apparent under certain circumstances (weight carrying, circling, inclines, hard surfaces, etc.)

Grade 3: Consistently observable at a trot under all circumstances

Grade 4: Obvious lameness; marked nodding, hitching or shortened stride

Grade 5: Minimal weight bearing in motion and/or at rest; inability to move


1: just because it is intermittent, doesn't mean it isn't there.
2: "shortened stride" is a form of lameness.

What was it you were saying about her not being lame? :p
 
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Well, it acts and looks like mud fever and she's only had it since the winter?

It's not horrific, I've been treating it since.. oooh, december? It just won't shift. I'm concerned the bugs may be antibiotic resistant as I've been cycling between two brands of antibiotic powder, sudacrem and purple spray and they're still not shifting.

If I treat it it gets sore but if I leave it she settles, but it doesn't heal. I've tended towards leaving it because I do not like causing her pain.

If not tracking up properly makes her lame now, then she's been lame for most of her life... and still managed to be a successful show horse despite her constant lameness... :rolleyes:
 
Serenity087 said:
Why do I want to pay for someone to tell me her pelvis is slightly rotated so that the left hand side is slightly more forward than the right and that the vertebrae between her pelvis and her tail aren't exactly in line?

If she was a competition horse, yes, straighten it, get it all sorted, get months of chiro work to keep putting bones back in place, physio work to keep changing the muscle, lots of pain for poor Dorey.

Or.

I could just keep working on building up the right muscles so that she can work right around a problem she's had for a very very long time?

I mean, I can certainly sort out a chiro, against two professionals advice, but it'd only be to prove myself right on this one.
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Serenity, sometimes a temporary issue can aggravate one that has previoulsy been hidden. We had a livery who got an abcess, and her lameness superceded the healing.

The lameness had caused strain to be exerted on another joint on hjer opposite side, i left during her treatment but i do know that the vet said it could have shown up at any time but the extra stress made it more apparent.

If it were my horse i would get an expert out for a consultation. if you think they arent going to help then make that decision afterwards.

It seems unfair to keep something potentially overlooked just because of your own pig headedness.

P.S. ive had deep cracks in my feet from being in wet shoes for 24 hours and its absolute agony.
 
We had one like that at work a few years ago, had the vet up a few times, it really just would not shift.

She may need oral antibiotics to help kick it. We used betnovate, cling film and bandages on for a few hours, warm salty water, gently dry, betnovate again and leave til the next day. After months of trying every other cream under the sun, this worked within days.
 
Serenity087 said:
I'm concerned the bugs may be antibiotic resistant as I've been cycling between two brands of antibiotic powder, sudacrem and purple spray and they're still not shifting.

If not tracking up properly makes her lame now, then she's been lame for most of her life... and still managed to be a successful show horse despite her constant lameness... :rolleyes:
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Yes, low level lameness is very common in a lot of disciplines. Especially at lower levels, though I've seen many a lame animal at county level shows. It doesn't make it acceptable.

If you are concerned about antibiotic resistance you definitely should have it investigated by a vet. However, two brands or two active ingredients? Are you complying fully with the usage instructions, any deviation may select for resistance. Purple spray is not an antibiotic... sudocream won't help while it is stil infected. If it has lingered since december and has not resolved now there is no mud, you need a vet, either to prescribe an im or oral ab, a different form of antibiotic, or to identify if it is not mud fever at all. hairies are prone to very persistent arthropod infestations, which require ivermectin washing, i/m ivermectin etc.
 
Well, yes, if anything I've shaved the backs of my ankles enough time to know it's absolute agony to try and walk in!

Okay, so we've worked out that Dorey is actually grade 1 lame (which makes me sad :( ) and that whilst the mud fever is a good potential cause, it might have inflamed the pelvis issues.

My plan is then collect a couple of tubes of sedalin from vet (because, seriously, I ended up in hospital for taking scissors to her feathers last week... I am NOT attempting clipping without help!), remove feathers, have a really good go at mud fever (hibiscrub, wound powder, the LOT!). Without feathers will be able to keep feet clean/dry/treated.

Once scabs gone will reaccess. If she still struggles then will call chiro, against better judgement (and I've known one of the physio's my entire life, so it's not just pigheadedness that I don't think she needs one, I trust him totally!) and get an OPINION!

I know I've been argumentative, but I assure you, this thread HAS been productive. Dorey is my baby and I wouldn't hurt her (maybe wash her ears, which is akin to beating her within an inch of her life in her books!!!) or cause her to be in pain.

for the mud fever - I've seen it bad and it really doesn't look bad - a couple of scabs which are mostly just blood scabs and don't ouze. Of course, it might look worse without feathers but at the moment it's certainly not the worse case I've ever seen so please don't think I've just ignored it until she became crippled!
 
I don't think you've been cruel, but please try and soften the scabs before just scrubbing them off!!

It sounds as though it is pretty sore if you can't touch it, not saying it's worse case ever but it can't be great if it is impeding her movement.
 
but do you not realise that by procrastinating, or not getting the experts in straight away you could be prolonging her pain and actually making it worse.

You arent a vet, you arent a chiro or physio, however much you think you know, they know tonnes more and have the ways and means to do the best for your horse.

Anyone can say 'why didnt you take proper action on the mud fever when it started, prevention is better than cure' but if you arent going to listen and think you know it all then you wont get anywhere and Dorey will be the one suffering.
 
Serenity087 said:
My plan is then collect a couple of tubes of sedalin from vet
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word of warning, sedalin won't make much difference if she is in pain - try if you wish, but make sure she's well under before taking any chances with the clippers (for her safety as well as your own). You may need the vet out for full sedation, in which case you would be as well to get them to look at her while they are there.

(I speak from experience, clipping my old beast's feathers when I got him and he had problems. Now he's a lamb, but then it was full sedation or smashed clippers. If he were less considerate, it would have been smashed handler too.)
 
We are taught that lameness on a soft circle is soft tissue whereas lameness on hard is more skeleltal - Could be that her muscles are not working as they should be or else twice as hard which in turn makes them worse- like a vicious circle.

It could be that the sand is also irritating the mud fever which makes her more unlevel whereas on a hack nothing to irritate so more "comfort" as such :)
 
Poor horse :( If she has had mud fever for six months why haven't you called the vet? I couldn't let one of mine suffer like that. Mud fever is painful and no horse deserves to have it drag on for this long.
 
baked bean, I presume a truck drove into its hind end and its pelvis is now in a ditch or something :P I hate that expression, it's so inaccurate...
 
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