Confused doesnt even come close! :'(

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Sameru

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Start from the top-

Horse - young, green but lovely temp, slightly explosive/nervous disposition - nothing unmanageable though. Good genuine sort and trainable.

First assesment - Dropped BTV, not off my leg but carry himself albeit the wrong way, very nice basic paces with great potential to be unlocked.

Trainer No.1 - absolutely brilliant, recognised greenness and worked him with a steady consistant contact with no restriction to go forward, taught him to lengthen his neck, work long and low, move off my leg and push into the contact. Trainer not available regularly and now not at all unless i take him to her.

Next came my own work on the basis of previous trainer, lots of working over his back, long, stretchy work. Leg yeilding nicely, developing good muscle tone. I felt the need for guidance to the next stage -

Trainer No.2 - Wants him in a more upright shape (more 'advanced' shape) as she thinks he was on the forehand and not at all off my leg (truthful to some extent). She rode my horse in a very restricted way. Explaining that I shoud keep a closed hand until he softens whilst thinking Forwards (a lot more forwards than normal). This 'lots of leg into a fixed hand' created unhappiness, napping, and a short choppy walk, not tracking up in trot and refusing to canter. She rode him a second time last week and worked on Walk/Halt and W/T/W trans - REARING ... a lot! The work in between the rearing was more advanced/up in front and powerful from behind but horse was not happy about it. Lunged since and going nicely back down long and low.

Rode last night, and me and horse are beyond confused so after 20 mins of settling him and stretching, produced so okay work, reverting back to previous lighter contact, and less restriction. He and I were much happier.

Really not sure what I should be doing now. Do I explain to Trainer No.2 that I think her method does not suit my horse or just abandon lessons with her?

How would you define the correct way of working into a contact? Any words of advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much
 
Too useles to talk about contacts etc. but I'd stick to one trainer. Number 1 sounds to suit you and your horse at his level atm. :)
 
IMO Stop using trainer number 2. There is a requirement for youngsters to start working in a rounder frame with no resistance in all paces & in transitions but it is a gradual ask. I would ask for a few minutes, here and there, especially on hacks. If you are getting real resistance and unhappiness then I would say it's too much too soon.
Mine resists because he is unbalanced and because he is wilful, the trick is to keep consistently asking until they find it easy, the wilfulness will dissappear as they mature.
Box to trainer no. 1, or find someone a bit more sympathetic. i love RC for this kind of stuff, you can try out a few trainers and extract what you want.
 
i'm no expert but i would be thinking that he is not ready for trainer 2 yet, he's getting used to using himself and asking him to step up to an 'advanced' shape so soon is just not working. Stick with trainer 1 if you can, sounds like it's working for both of you where trainer 2 isn't:)
 
siennamum said:
IMO Stop using trainer number 2. There is a requirement for youngsters to start working in a rounder frame with no resistance in all paces & in transitions but it is a gradual ask. I would ask for a few minutes, here and there, especially on hacks. If you are getting real resistance and unhappiness then I would say it's too much too soon.
Mine resists because he is unbalanced and because he is wilful, the trick is to keep consistently asking until they find it easy, the wilfulness will dissappear as they mature.
Box to trainer no. 1, or find someone a bit more sympathetic. i love RC for this kind of stuff, you can try out a few trainers and extract what you want.
Click to expand...

^^^^^Agree with this completely :)
 
WOW.. thanks for all the responses - so helpful. I also think binning No.2 is the best option but I she has been very kind to me with other things and perhaps deserves an explanation as to why I am not happy. He is ready to progress but I agree 90/10 (stretchy/upright) to begin to forced into an unhappy shape and told to accept it.

Riding tonight - what would your plan be?

Thanks again everyone - unbelievably grateful
 
lostmybottle said:
WOW.. thanks for all the responses - so helpful. I also think binning No.2 is the best option but I she has been very kind to me with other things and perhaps deserves an explanation as to why I am not happy. He is ready to progress but I agree 90/10 (stretchy/upright) to begin to forced into an unhappy shape and told to accept it.

Riding tonight - what would your plan be?

Thanks again everyone - unbelievably grateful
Click to expand...

A friend went through this with her new instructor, exactly the same as you. Had her docile lovely horse rearing within 3 lessons. It may help to explain to her what your concerns are but I think you may possibly find that she'll change her style of teaching for a few lessons but then revert back to her usual style. Make the effort if possible to go to trainer 1.
 
I absolutely hate the trainer no. 2 method of training. It is all too common though unfortunately and produces horses with hardened mouths that fix against you. Cruel, and ruins good horses IMO.
 
it sounds so awful!

you already are learning to listen to your horse and your own feelings and sensations when you say how you are not happy with all this.

ride him with his head where he needs to put it, riding on a very light contact, when he is warmed up and suppled he will show you that he can stretch by offering to stretch forwards, you can then by regulating the pace and using transitions allow him to come up and off the forehand and become lighter and balanced, all totally without force or strong aids.

why are 'riding instructors' so forceful, who is training these people?
 
tristar said:
it sounds so awful!

you already are learning to listen to your horse and your own feelings and sensations when you say how you are not happy with all this.

ride him with his head where he needs to put it, riding on a very light contact, when he is warmed up and suppled he will show you that he can stretch by offering to stretch forwards, you can then by regulating the pace and using transitions allow him to come up and off the forehand and become lighter and balanced, all totally without force or strong aids.

why are 'riding instructors' so forceful, who is training these people?
Click to expand...

Wasn't there a discussion here the other day about how when sitting the BHS exams all you needed was the age, height and weight? So others were sitting the exams in place of the entrant? Not saying that this is the case in this scenario but could explain why some are like that!

Agreed with the others...trainer no. 1 :), IMO better to have not as frequent lessons but with a good trainer than regular ones with a bad one. :)
 
Not all instructors are forceful :)

I'd ditch instructor number two and find someone who works on promoting sensitivity and softness, it will be much better for you and your horse in the long run.

I think some instructors feel that they have to make an impression on the owner by showing a transformation in how the horse goes, there are still people who think forcing a horse into an outline and riding aggressively achieves this.

Plus some owners want a quick 'result' and are impressed by a horse that 'looks' flashy, even though it may be stiff, forced and uncomfortable.

Heavy hands can never produce a light horse.
 
I agree bin trainer 2 your horse is unhappy and this may lead to many more dangerous problems long term. Perhaps someone could recommend a trainer number 3 if going to number 1 is too difficult? Where abouts are you? Apologies if it says under your name am on my phone and can't see that bit!
 
Sure fire way to ruin your young horse would be to continue with trainer number 2. Have to agree with everybody else on this one. What is the hurry? Your horse will let you know when he is ready to move up a gear. Too many people want quick results. Let your horse enjoy his work and gain some strenght before asking more. :-)
 
Thank you all so so much! Pressure completely off tonight and did some loose jumping (which he loves) start in the school again tomorrow am - thanks again!
 
I was always taught to work any young horse long and low. As the animal strengthens and is truly going forward so the head will rise and you can take a more positive outline.

Bin trainer 2. Ask her why she does not believe in long and low.
 
Not sure that sure doesnt 'not' believe in it, I think she sees him ready to move on from it and he is absolutely telling us he is NOT!

I am much clearer what to do now though thanks everyone.
 
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