Confusion over full livery services.

Debz87

Debz87

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Hello everyone, I am exploring the idea of taking on a 10 box yard to start a livery and training business.

I have searched the forums and it seems a lot of people have different ideas on what is expected from part and full livery.

I would like to offer full livery which I would like to include:

Mucking out/skipping out twice after during the day
Haylage in weighed nets according to horse size twice a day
Basic feed twice a day
Either small group or individual turnout
Basic grooming, body brush and pick out feet, de tangle mane and tail etc
Rug changes
Holding for vet etc
Non ridden exercise of 45 mins on horse walker at least 5 times a week
24 hour supervision

There is a 40x20 floodlit school and nice hacking, there is a local RC venue within hacking distance

Also space for lorries and trailers

Does the above sound reasonable for full livery or does it seem more like part livery?

The training livery is different to this so not looking for advice on that.

I think the yard is in a nice area within Hampshire what do you all think re services.

Am just sorting out the insurance etc before I advertise, have written out a contract and a set of yard rules so getting there just seen conflicting reviews from other on what is expected on full and part, I personally would like my horse kept fit but would like to be solely riding it myself if it was on full livery hence the package I am thinking of offering.
 
I think of that as full but would expect haylage to be more individual than just going on the size of the horse some will be poor doers and require more other less and I think that adding extra to the bill to give some more starts to become difficult. I provide my liveries with pretty much ad lib and the ones that eat more balance out the others my charges vary depending on size so it is less messing about when billing, I would find it hard to add for any extra nets given if the weather is bad and they are in more, I gain when they are out longer.
I am also not sure about the horsewalker, if you are building that into the livery cost it may be best as an optional extra, some people would not want their horses on a walker 5 days a week preferring to ride them or have longer turnout each day as it will cut into their time out in some way.
 
That's part livery to me - I get all that minus grooming as part livery at my yard. Oh, and ours get 3 nets a day if they are in.

Full livery would include proper exercise to me - riding or lunging.

Sounds good though.
 
Yeah that's what I thought originally, what i struggle to get is that most literally just offer a bit of exercise and schooling is extra, just sounds like a recipe for disaster. I see some full livery packages offer 3 days ridden exercise and some offer more but not by anyone particularly qualified or anything so seems a lot out there.
How would you price
 
Totally depends on which part of the country you are in.

Here full livery does not include exercise. It is rugs changed, horses turned out/brought in, feet picked, legs hoses, hard feed, hay/halylage, stable mucked out etc. All the basic needs but no riding at all.

Way down south I have heard it being described as riding, and even bringing in-grooming and tacking up for owner!

Here if there is any exercise it is training/schooling livery.

Part livery is for example the owner mucking out a few days per week. Or doing the bringing in/ bedding down.

So I just guess it depends on what your target market think it is!
 
Thanks for your comments, my intention would be to turn out horses for most of the day but in an attempt to try and get the horses moving and a bit more chilled I thought the horse walker would be a good idea.

Another yard I went to have a look at were doing what I listed as full livery and charging more for haylage etc
 
I'm in Surrey and this would be part livery. Part livery here inc use of the walker, whereas ridden exercise or lunging would need to be included in full livery. Quite a few owners prefer not to use the walker so you wouldn't be able to rely on its use for exercise or to chill horses out.
Haylage sometimes has an additional charge ie £20pm but would be adlib as would hay when it's included in the livery.
 
Sounds like a reasonable package for part liver round here- but like others, I'd pick up on the haylage and walker. The only time I'd want my horse going round a walker 5 times a week would be if in the depths of winter turnout was impossible for some unusual reason - like the flooding this year or heavy snow. To me, the walker is to keep them occupied if turnout isn't possible..

Re the haylage, as another said, going by horse weight would be awkward. Are you planning on weigh taping? What if one is overweight? Going by pony/horse isn't uncommon, but it all depends on how the owner wants their horse Fed. My cob gets little hard feed but ad lib haylage, so I wouldn't be keen personally.
 
One thing I'd like to see from a livery yard is if I don't want to use the feed supplied, the deduction for this made from my bill and supply my own.
 
Well re the haylage, I had the idea of weight taping them and using that as a guide and monitoring the horses as I go, but I suppose it would be easier giving ab-lib, I just worry some horses would put on too much weight.
So how much would you pay for what I have offered?
I see what you mean re the horse walker taking over turnout etc, I'm not used to having them as an intergrel part of a yard but as it's there I thought it may as well be incorporated as I see a lot of people seem to want use of one.
It's really quite difficult trying to get the right mix for everyone!
 
I'm on "full" livery in the East Midlands and that doesn't include ridden exercise unless I pay extra for it. It does include use of the walker 3 times per week if I want/need it, but my horse is turned out daily and I ride him 5-6 times per week anyway. Also, includes feet picking when he comes in but not grooming.

What about provision of bedding. Are you going to charge extra for straw, shavings or whatever?
 
I want to use wood pellets on thick rubber matting, had this at a yard I worked at and it was really efficient and didn't smell etc, how much do you pay if you don't mind me asking Greylegs?
 
My unbacked 3yo is now on 5day full livery & I'm in Hampshire.

He gets mucked out, turned out, rugs changed, feet washed & picked out, ad lib hay, feed, groomed and will be 'worked with' 3 days a week. This will include lunging, long-reining and when backed, ridden. The weekends are assisted livery so he gets either t/o or b/i & I muck out.

Part livery is without the ridden work, everything else is included & this is what I would expect.
 
Weighing hay is fine you just need to allow for adlib in the cost. Most owners will be happy to feed by weight but would want adlib if required without having to pay extra.
For the type of livery you are planning to offer I would expect to pay from £560-750pm depending on facilities in Surrey/North Hampshire. For a 20x40 school with no xc fences, solarium, hot wash etc I would expect to pay the lower end of this price range. I would expect all feed, hay and two bales of shavings a week to be included.
 
To me full livery is full care of the horse 24/7 including muckout, grooming, walker, turnout, tack cleaning and all hay,feed, bedding. I would expect ad-lib hay/haylage /straw but normally a restriction on the amount of shavings. Training livery would include all of the above plus 4+ ridden session/lessons
 
Round here, two packages are generally offered - ridden, and non-ridden. From what I have seen, when I realised I was paying so much in fuel, that full livery was worth looking into. Very recently.
 
I've just seen you want to use wood pellets, on part livery I would prefer the option of shavings or would at least want a good deep bed with decent banks even with rubber matting. Not sure how many bags of pellets I'd expect included,as I've never used them or been offered them on part livery.
 
I completely agree it's all about the area and more specifically the yards in the locality. All the yards near where I am (Suffolk Essex border) that would be full/ training. If I wanted riding/ exercise as well I would have to pay a bomb more. I think that also (and here comes my degree) it's all about what people want in the area you're in. If there are loads of yards offering the same thing then make yourself stand out and go either side of it - IE offer something other yards aren't. That way whatever service you offer and whatever you call it you will have customers. If I were you if you haven't already research what your nearest 10/15/20 yards offer and for how much and place yourself accordingly. With money being tighter for everyone people want to go somewhere and get all their needs met for the right price - after all. you would have to really hate your yard to move to one that wasn't offering exactly what you wanted! Also with feed I think maybe a lot of owners would be precious about how much they have for their horse.. Might be worth playing it by ear and see what works best for everyone. Hope this makes sense :-)
 
I'm in the midlands and what you describe costs me £115 a week but we have an indoor school, when I lived in Herts it was £100 a week without indoor school but 2 maneges....

Hants is riding country though so you might have quite a bit of competition? I'd say about £120 a week and you wouldn't be too far off
 
See therein lies the confusion what the OP describes is what I used to offer for part livery, full livery was me lungeing or hacking the livery out 3 times a week, plus plaiting etc for shows and cleaning their tack, that was Hampshire. Whereas round here, Suffolk/Norfolk/Cambridgeshire that seems to describe full livery. It doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as you are clear on what is included.
On a side note, I included ad lib hay and by that I mean I would go out and replenish their hay at 10pm or later, not just put a massive pile in for them to trash into their beds. They never went without but there was little wastage or mess from liveries traipsing it across the yard. And those that has special feed requirements had to supply or pay me to get in the feed in addition to their livery, I don't see why there should be a discount, I fed a good quality diet and regularly had nutritionists in from various feed companies to advise in addition to my own knowledge.

Oh and I charged £90 a week for the type of livery you described, that was 8 years ago so with inflation etc I would say £120+ would be more reasonable now.
 
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That would be absolutely full livery to me! I guess it depends on local areas. I paid for full livery for 10 years. We were requested to use an outdoor rug so rug changes weren't required, and never once was my horse groomed! And this was in one of the most expensive yards in the area.
Also a there was no horse walker but horses were turned out daily
 
Providing the school surface is good and well maintained and the yard is reasonably smart and tidy I would say in the region of £120 per week. I'd call it part livery and not include the walker (that would be an added extra).
 
Part livery around here (Kent) is the basic care mon-Fri and diy at weekends. Full livery is the basic care all week. Adlib Hay/haylege and basic feed included but any exercise is extra on top.

I wouldn't be happy with my horse on a walker 5 times a week either!
 
Just a thought, a yard local to me has just started making individual packages for each livery. The YO starts with the basic stable, TO and muck out etc and adds things on top of this for each livery depending on their needs. From what I can gather they have a waiting list as long as my arm and it seems to be working really well.
 
I think the hugh range of replies indicates that everyone has a different view (just what I would expect from the horsey world)
My view Full Livery would be everything that needs to be done for the individual horse. Your way forward must be to decide what you can offer as a package, price it and then owners can accept or tweek the package as required. Personally I would not want my horses on the walker and believe in turnout as much as possible (subject to conditions of course). Go into it knowing that you will never please all of the people all of the time!
 
Debz87 said:
I want to use wood pellets on thick rubber matting, had this at a yard I worked at and it was really efficient and didn't smell etc, how much do you pay if you don't mind me asking Greylegs?
Click to expand...

I pay £425 plus bedding per month (shavings) That comes to around £460 per month. YO buys shavings by the truck load to keep costs down. My boy is only 14.2 so is a pony, but larger horses pay £455.Forgot to add, use of all facilities including large indoor, outdoor school, walker, trailer parking, wash box, jumps, cross country course, good storage, secure tack room etc is included. We have a solarium which is £1 to use and wormers are provided but charged at cost. There is also a nice, well equipped kitchen, loo and shower and access to hot water if we need it. My stable has a full rubber floor, but some don't. We have access to extensive private off road riding but have to pay a small annual permit charge to use it, but definitely worth it. Expensive, but lovely!! Oh .... And the people are lovely too (which, to me, is worth more than all of the above, because if the clients/staff/YO mix doesn't work it's awful ..... ) good luck with your plans.
 
Yes it's the exercise that always give the confusion. however this is what I am on and mine is on part livery. if the exercise was ridden or lunging it would be full livery and if it was schooling it would be schooling livery. That's because I don't thing horses walker really counts as exercise perse.
 
I would be looking for ad lib hay/haylage if it was full livery but no exercising (ridden work/lunging).

working/lunging would be an extra charge or schooling/competition livery.
 
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