Contact issues with horse- advice needed please- also in CR

[charlie76]

If anyone can offer any advice on my other halfs horse it would be greatfully appreciated. He has a 7 yr old hanovarian horse who is a super mover with very big paces. We have had him for about 6 months and he has always found canter difficult and seems to have issues with accepting a contact.
The canter gets to big (as does the trot sometimes) he gets unbalanced and runs through the hand. If you attempt to correct this he throws his head up and stops. Once he has done this in canter it continues on and off in the trot as well.
He is perfect on the lunge with or without side reins- balanced and in rythym. He is also perfect out hacking - walk, trot and canter. His jumping is good and for some wierd reason he has never done it at a show.Don;t get me wrong, the test is far from perfect but in 5 tests he has been 1st, 2nd twice and 2 3rds so not bad with over 67% but he would gain more but the canter is not good enough.
We also know he had similar issues before we bought him but felt we could work through and make progress which we have to some extent but its very frustrating.
We have had the saddle checked, teeth done by vet and dentist and had the chiropractor. They found no problems so I got the vet to give him an MOT. He felt he was sore in the sacroiliac area so we have had this treated- vet said we should have improvement if this is the issue, we have no improvement.
I believe it is an evasion , if you ask him to carry 'himself' he either pulls you forward and runs on his forehand or he becomes too light in front, feels like he pulls the bit back in his mouth, slams his head up and stops or runs backwards.
We have tried giving him a kick and sending him forward but this makes him run on again with his head stuck up in the air and no control so you have to pull him up and he slams his head up again- vicious circle springs to mind!
We have been working him in a very slow trot to enable him to find his own balance- this was good for a week but now he has started being naughty again.


He also has a tendancy to run into the canter rather than jump into the canter and swings his quaters out as you make the transtion.

I do not believe it is a rider issue as we have tried several different riders, one of which produced a horse for the Olympics so you would hope she could half ride! and he did it with her as well.

When he is not having a paddy he is better but still not to a consistant contact.

We have tried the following bits:
Nathe Snaffle straight bar with loose ring- he leans on this and pulls down
Hard rubber straight bar snaffle- as above
French link metal- eggbut and loose ring- he drops behind it and throws his head up
Fulmer pinchless, fulmer french link, Loose ring snaffle, Loose ring french link, Eggbut snaffle, hanging cheek snaffle, pinchless french link, straight bar metal eggbutt, 3 ring gag- jointed and straight bar happy mouth and metal, Rubber Loose ring, KK bit, Nueue Schule training bit- all of which he has done the above in!
We then tried a hackamore to elimate the mouth- he was ok for 2 or 3 days then did the head throwing thing.

Help!

Just to add, this horse is my other halfs, not mine!

 

[DottyConnection]

Maybe try and low ported Myler? Maybe a level 1 or 2, these have a rolling action through the middle so eliminate the nutcracker or any pinching. And if hes strong you can have hooks on the cheeks to add a little poll pressure x

 

[Flame_]

It sounds like you're doing everything right and from what you say and the pics in your siggy you can obviously ride. IMO if, given time and a competant rider, a horse fails to improve its because there's a physical problem somewhere. The dentist, back man and vet all giving the horse the thumbs up doesn't mean much IME. Does he generally have a bit of an attitude or is it just when it comes to maintaining canter he starts to say no?

 

[charlie76]

He is ok until you canter where he becomes naughty, then the naughtness continues in the trot.

However, he is never to a true contact, its either too light or leaning and on the forehand.

He has had his spine, neck, hocks and feet x rayed.

 

[Orangehorse]

How about a rubber pelham? Not vulcanite. Just to "show" him how to keep his head. See Heather Moffat website.

I had a lot of success using a rubber pelham for schooling my horse, and I have recently heard of someone else too; it just suits some horses. You can go back to "competition legal" bits when they have got the idea.

 

[AandK]

have replied to your post in CR..

 

[wattsy]

could it be he is just not strong enough yet in his back, loins, hindquarters, to carry himself and a rider? If this is the case, he would certainly find it less strenuous to run on, rather than carry himself.
I have a horse like this, super super horse but didn't naturally possess the strength and muscle power to hold himself while cantering in a collected frame. So we spent a lot of time doing lateral work, spiralling in and out of a circle, quarters in/out, short periods of canter held in frame whilst picking him up underneath, a lot of backing through changes of direction and backing through serpentines, all to round and strengthen the back. After a year or so, he is so much better, really muscled, and can go slow and collected with virtually no contact (I ride him western so you can understand how important it is to have him in self carriage!). Very pleased with the results - he will never be in the same league as the super slow lopers you see in the top pleasure classes, but he is cadenced and balanced and in frame, and moves well without resistance.