Control Head Collars, Dually- causing unwanted bahaviour

[Horsekaren]

I am cI am curious to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.
I have been using a Dually head collar on my horse for about 3 months since I owned him. I chose to do this as he was a bit pully and ran away from me a few times when he arrived (I’m sure this was a trust issue and I don’t think he is 100% with me just yet but he is soooo much better with it on as he cannot get away so learns he is staying with me regardless if that bird in that bush wants to kill him)
Recently I have noticed when leading him the rope and metal bits around his nose seem to bother him, he tries to bite and nip at the rope, he has even nipped a bit towards me arm (nothing scary just a little nip on my coat)
If I lead him in a normal head collar he doesn’t bite or nip at all, I wonder if he is trying to tell me that he doesn’t need the dually any more (I know that sounds nuts)
He hasn’t been a bitey horse, he isn’t hand fed and I don’t play with his mouth (not sure if people maybe do when I am not looking)
I have lead him twice successfully in a normal head collar but the other day when there was a bit of excitement in the field he pulled away and ran off back to the herd. A second situation occurred when doing some ground work in the school, again he spooked 5 times and stayed with me then something else scared him, he pulled away ran up and down the school panicking, broke his head collar and had that flapping around his face for a few minutes until he stopped dead and walked strait to me for help.

I am hesitant to stop using the Dually because i don't want him to start running off again... but i really do think it is bothering him and he is trying to say i don't need this any more...

Are there any other head collars out there that are maybe less severe (a sort of in-between)?
Has anyone else had a similar experience with biting a nipping? He isn’t a bitey horse… well he hasn’t been, is there anything I can do to stop this?

Thanks in advance! I cant tell you how grateful I am for all the responses to my threads! Being a new owner it is invaluable help for me 

 

[Blackwijet]

I used to share a rather strong minded ID with a sense of humour! When he decided he was going to go he could move blinkin quick for a big beast and would drag me (or anyone else) up the drive doing 20 foot strides behind him until I gave up and let go (he couldn't go anywhere other than the yard). A simple wrapping of the leadrope round his nose and through the headcollar stopped him doing this - not painful and in most cases he didn't even try it once you did that. Anyone that forgot would find themselves doing the 100 metre sprint up the the drive either on the end of the leadrope or chasing him . Also make sure you have a long leadrope not a short one, gives you a bit more time to react and brace yourself if they do try it!

I've always done this since then with any horse that I thought might get a bit strong - always worked and easy to release when they are behaving themselves!

 

[supsup]

Before abandoning the Dually, I'd check a couple of things: Are you correctly fitting it every time you use it? You really have to undo/loosen the strap under the chin to get it high enough on the head (the fixed nose strap should be just under the prominent cheek bone), then tighten the chin strap again to keep the headcollar from twisting around the head. If you don't undo the chin strap each time, it's easy to fit the headcollar too low so that the rope is on the soft part of the nose, or the headcollar remains loose enough to swivel around the face when using the schooling rings on the rope.
You could also try to fit a (faux) sheepskin sleeve around the rope. It's the pressure on the nose that is giving the signal, but you don't want to cause discomfort because the rope is sliding across the bridge of the nose rubbing the skin.
Do you have a heavy clip on your leadrope that might be banging on the side of the face? Do you get the same reaction/biting from your horse if you lead on the "normal" ring under the chin? I think sometimes the rope over the nose is a bit long if the horse has a small head, meaning there is extra length on the side. If you then have a heavy metal clip on it, it may accidentally bang the horse in the face, or just irritate them by dangling close to the face. If the rope is very long, maybe you need to go a size down, or if the headcollar was fitted too low, more of the rope will be taken up if fitted correctly, higher up on the head.
I've also seen some people wrap the rings on the headcollar with duct tape to avoid any clanking noises.

Lastly, check that you are using the the headcollar correctly, always being quick to release again, so the horse only feels pressure when appropriate, not all the time.

I'd try some of these ideas first before giving up on the Dually, since it seems to be working well for you otherwise.

 

[Morgan123]

Well the dually works because it is at best uncomfortable and at worst painful, so it's not that surprising if he's made the connection - that's no different to a horse knowing it's going XC because it's got its XC bridle on (or whatever). Perhaps he is trying to tell you it's uncomfortable for him.

Have you considered clicker training? Really useful for keeping the interest of a horse that is bargey and wants to go elsewhere. I did it recently with one who was just vile if he was about 100ft away from his field mates, now he hacks around the village on his own - just changes how they interact with you.

If you're set on using a pressure halter you could try one of the over-head ones (where the loop goes behind the ears), as it may be that he particularly dislikes nose pressure. You could also lead in a bridle. However, working on the cause of the problem (making it nice to come into the yard) would be useful too and will solve your problem longer term than any pressure halter.

 

[JillA]

I like the American rope halters - they are thinner and designed to apply pressure to sensitive areas, but you have to learn to release that pressure as soon as the horse responds. I do find with the webbing (or leather) ones the width of the noseband almost invites them to push through it.
But in general it isn't the tool but the way you use it, so maybe if you still have the instructions you got with the dually go back and revise them (or check on line, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dually+headcollar)

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You need to forget this notion of him "trying to tell you he doesn't need it any more" - it's ridiculous. Look at the evidence in front of you, you have no real control over this horse, he runs off whenever he likes. How can you honestly think that's ok? If he's trying to tell you anything, it's that he doesn't like it when he can't break free and do as he likes. Don't let him nip your coat, it's bad behaviour and could progress to proper biting. As others have already said, I'd check the dually is fitted correctly. Then I'd carry on using it.

 

[Horsekaren]

Before abandoning the Dually, I'd check a couple of things: Are you correctly fitting it every time you use it? You really have to undo/loosen the strap under the chin to get it high enough on the head (the fixed nose strap should be just under the prominent cheek bone), then tighten the chin strap again to keep the headcollar from twisting around the head. If you don't undo the chin strap each time, it's easy to fit the headcollar too low so that the rope is on the soft part of the nose, or the headcollar remains loose enough to swivel around the face when using the schooling rings on the rope.
You could also try to fit a (faux) sheepskin sleeve around the rope. It's the pressure on the nose that is giving the signal, but you don't want to cause discomfort because the rope is sliding across the bridge of the nose rubbing the skin.
Do you have a heavy clip on your leadrope that might be banging on the side of the face? Do you get the same reaction/biting from your horse if you lead on the "normal" ring under the chin? I think sometimes the rope over the nose is a bit long if the horse has a small head, meaning there is extra length on the side. If you then have a heavy metal clip on it, it may accidentally bang the horse in the face, or just irritate them by dangling close to the face. If the rope is very long, maybe you need to go a size down, or if the headcollar was fitted too low, more of the rope will be taken up if fitted correctly, higher up on the head.
I've also seen some people wrap the rings on the headcollar with duct tape to avoid any clanking noises.

Lastly, check that you are using the the headcollar correctly, always being quick to release again, so the horse only feels pressure when appropriate, not all the time.

I'd try some of these ideas first before giving up on the Dually, since it seems to be working well for you otherwise.

This is great advice, I am now wondering if perhaps it is to low as I don't untie the nose strap every time... well i haven't since i purchased it and the metal bits to clink together so he tired to chew them.... first job tonight Dually check!
I know the rope part of the head collar isn't round the soft bit of his nose but as you said if it is to low i don't want to be hurting him.
I am using the pressure and release correctly, i rarely use pressure it is only as and when required, it is more a a safety net for me to be able to regain control of him before he runs off into the distance.

 

[Landcruiser]

Thin rope halters are light and as long as the horse isn't pulling there is no pressure at all. If the horse pulls, the pressure is equal to the pull. If the horse stops pulling there is instant and total release (as long as the handler uses it correctly). Used with a longer than normal leadrope, (about 8 ft min, preferably 10 ft), a horse won't get away from you. I have a Dually but find it heavy, clunky, and awkward, and in my experience the nose rope can fail to release pressure fully as well.

 

[ihatework]

This, in combination with your ridden problems, would make me think you do need to take a step back and bring in some experienced help both on the ground and under saddle. The 2 thinks will be linked, but are solveable once he trusts you and is happy to consider you the boss in the partnership!

 

[SEL]

My mare absolutely knows when she has the dually on instead of her normal headcollar. I agree about making sure it is adjusted properly - I had the nose strap too low for ages. I also agree with the poster above who said they are designed to be uncomfortable; that's kind of the point. Check that you are releasing quickly when you get the right behaviour, otherwise you aren't rewarding them and they will associate it with being uncomfortable all of the time.

The rope around nose when leading in a headcollar is a technique worth learning with a bolshy horse. Again my mare knows when that rope goes round - huffs, puffs and behaves herself!

 

[Cortez]

I wouldn't have this horse in a dually headcollar - I'd have a stud chain over his nose and I would USE it, hard, if he tried any of that stuff on. Trying to tell you something? Let me translate: he's saying "I couldn't give a stuff what you want, I'm just going to p*$$ off over here and there's nothing you could do to stop me if I didn't have this pesky thing on. Oh, and I'm strongly thinking of biting you too". Get some experienced help before he becomes even more rude and disrespectful and possibly hurts you.

 

[JillA]

Sorry but that is so dangerous. With the OPs level of experience and lack of timing what is she going to do when he rears in self defence? Someone on the Intelligent Horsemanship list of Recommended Associates should be able to help, most are not hugely expensive and there is one within reach of most parts of the country - they are generally very knowledgeable nice people too. http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-associates/

 

[Horsekaren]

I wouldn't have this horse in a dually headcollar - I'd have a stud chain over his nose and I would USE it, hard, if he tried any of that stuff on. Trying to tell you something? Let me translate: he's saying "I couldn't give a stuff what you want, I'm just going to p*$$ off over here and there's nothing you could do to stop me if I didn't have this pesky thing on. Oh, and I'm strongly thinking of biting you too". Get some experienced help before he becomes even more rude and disrespectful and possibly hurts you.

Maybe I have made him come across to strong. I absolutely do not think he requires a stud chain, he is very well behaved with the odd pull when he is genuinely frightened. As I said he is new and our relationship is still forming, he needs to trust me and need to trust him. I was curious regarding the nipping as I felt he was trying to tell me something... and from the suggestions I think it may be that the Dually isn't fitting him properly at the moment which would make sense why he doesn't do it in a normal head collar.

 

[LovesCobs]

I agree with looking at the fit. I had paddy from IHS come out as my horse was rearing to load. One of the issues was the dually was incorrectly fitted and was too low. Apart from that my lad has only ever nipped when frustrated and wound up. If he's bogging off in a normal head collar and then cannot when in the dually that may cause it. Having had one of the IHS guys out I really would recommend it. They will show you how to deal with it all

 

[Equi]

Solution, use two head collars on him. Use the "normal" one to lead when he is being good, and when he starts to act up use the control part. Sounds messy and complicated, but no worse than having to use two reins really lol

 

[Leo Walker]

I was curious regarding the nipping as I felt he was trying to tell me something... and from the suggestions I think it may be that the Dually isn't fitting him properly at the moment which would make sense why he doesn't do it in a normal head collar.

Hes trying to tell you that you are annoying him by preventing him from going and doing what he wants! It does sound like you could do with some help. Could you find an instructor that will do some ground work as well as ridden training?

 

[claret09]

definitely check the fit. my 17.2 has a black dually the blue one is far too big. Grant Bazin helped up - he is amazing. really recommend him. I only use the dually to load the rest of the time I use and American halter = it just give me a bit more control - although he is generally an angel now

 

[9tails]

The nipping means that he's being rude and disrespectful. A well timed "Oi" if he so much as thinks about it will help. As he still has a tendency to run off in a normal headcollar I'd say he still needs a control headcollar.

 

[Equi]

The nipping means that he's being rude and disrespectful. A well timed "Oi" if he so much as thinks about it will help. As he still has a tendency to run off in a normal headcollar I'd say he still needs a control headcollar.

I have to disagree with nipping meaning he is being rude and disrespectful. my horse can get anxious thus bolshy...but that was before i put the training into him and it was all anxiety. Now he is quite the opposite will will tolerate anything, but if he starts to give me "ears" and looking around to me when girthing or a sour face it means his saddle is a little too tight or his girth needs washed. If i change these factors, he goes back to normal. You do need to listen to the horse sometimes. The dually may really be bothering the horse in OP post, but if it works when they are being anxious its still worth while. Hence why i suggested use both....but then rope halter would help too as others said.

OP probably does need a few ground lessons though.

 

[FfionWinnie]

You need to forget this notion of him "trying to tell you he doesn't need it any more" - it's ridiculous. Look at the evidence in front of you, you have no real control over this horse, he runs off whenever he likes. How can you honestly think that's ok? If he's trying to tell you anything, it's that he doesn't like it when he can't break free and do as he likes. Don't let him nip your coat, it's bad behaviour and could progress to proper biting. As others have already said, I'd check the dually is fitted correctly. Then I'd carry on using it.

Totally agree I would also correct him for trying to bite the dually. Sorry but he sounds like he's walking all over you.

Incidentally horses that bog off in hand never stop doing it. They might go for years without doing it but they never forget they can once they've learnt to do it so I would not ever think you've cured him of this habit and never be complacent because that's when they do it!

 

[Regandal]

Sadly true FW, I have a wb who perfected the art of bogging off. Not frequently, but often enough. As I have knackered shoulders (match the rest of me) I bought an Eskadron control halter (chain). Best £25 I ever spent.

 

[Morgan123]

Well I've retrained them from doing it just by looking at the cause of the problem in the first place, and making it nicer to be with me, it's not rocket science.

 

[JillA]

Well I've retrained them from doing it just by looking at the cause of the problem in the first place, and making it nicer to be with me, it's not rocket science.

I have too, by having them learn to respect my space and so they follow behind. Where are you OP?

 

[Annagain]

You could also try leading him in a bridle - an old one without a noseband is much easier to get on in the field in a hurry. You could either have a set of reins or a lead rope attached to the furthest bit ring and threaded through the nearest one (or two leadropes - easier to attach then reins! My boy is pretty well mannered most of the time but has to have a bridle for loading and the vet so I have an old one with just a rubber snaffle and a lunge line attached. It's enough to make him realise he can't get away so he doesn't try.

 

[ester]

Maybe I have made him come across to strong. I absolutely do not think he requires a stud chain, he is very well behaved with the odd pull when he is genuinely frightened. As I said he is new and our relationship is still forming, he needs to trust me and need to trust him. I was curious regarding the nipping as I felt he was trying to tell me something... and from the suggestions I think it may be that the Dually isn't fitting him properly at the moment which would make sense why he doesn't do it in a normal head collar.

The odd pull? He is taking off without you!

He needs boundaries established at the moment trust will come later. Do you feel like that about the stud chain because it is a chain? Really the dually isn't much different and I have always found a chain quicker to release and reward though I have only needed to use either on other people's horses hence using their kit. The two worsely behaved I have known were led in duallys and they stayed the worse behaved!

 

[Horsekaren]

The odd pull? He is taking off without you!

He needs boundaries established at the moment trust will come later. Do you feel like that about the stud chain because it is a chain? Really the dually isn't much different and I have always found a chain quicker to release and reward though I have only needed to use either on other people's horses hence using their kit. The two worsely behaved I have known were led in duallys and they stayed the worse behaved!

It truly is the odd pull, he has boundaries and is respectful of them. I know he has it in him to pull but he choses not to and stays with me perfectly ...most of the time. This horse is a very nervy fellow, he will only run off if he genuinely is frightened for his life, he has never pulled away just because he wants to, there has always been a trigger, like a huge bang ect. I don't like the idea of a stud chain because the last thing he needs is pain, I don't want him to think if he is genuinely scared that scary stuff means pain... I know the dually can be painful but for me it is less harsh.
This horse is not a tear away dominant trouble maker, he is gentle, and needs a lot of guidance. He always wants to please and is extremely clever. I have had horsemanship lessons and they have advised me to take things slow and listen and watch for signals, she made a point of saying do not bully this horse... and that is how I would feel if I was yanking him with a chain
I adjusted the Dually yesterday and low and behold there was absolutely now nipping, he calmly walked with me with his head lowered

Thanks for the mixed advise it is great to hear different opinions and judge what may or may not help my boy.

 

[Horsekaren]

it truly is the odd pull, he has boundaries and is respectful of them. I know he has it in him to pull but he choses not to and stays with me perfectly ...most of the time. This horse is a very nervy fellow, he will only run off if he genuinely is frightened for his life, he has never pulled away just because he wants to, there has always been a trigger, like a huge bang ect. I don't like the idea of a stud chain because the last thing he needs is pain, i don't want him to think if he is genuinely scared that scary stuff means pain... I know the dually can be painful but for me it is less harsh.
This horse is not a tear away dominant trouble maker, he is gentle, and needs a lot of guidance. He always wants to please and is extremely clever. I have had horsemanship lessons and they have advised me to take things slow and listen and watch for signals, she made a point of saying do not bully this horse... And that is how i would feel if i was yanking him with a chain
i adjusted the dually yesterday and low and behold there was absolutely now nipping, he calmly walked with me with his head lowered

thanks for the mixed advise it is great to hear different opinions and judge what may or may not help my boy.

no nipping****

 

[little_critter]

It truly is the odd pull, he has boundaries and is respectful of them. I know he has it in him to pull but he choses not to and stays with me perfectly ...most of the time. This horse is a very nervy fellow, he will only run off if he genuinely is frightened for his life, he has never pulled away just because he wants to, there has always been a trigger, like a huge bang ect. I don't like the idea of a stud chain because the last thing he needs is pain, I don't want him to think if he is genuinely scared that scary stuff means pain... I know the dually can be painful but for me it is less harsh.
This horse is not a tear away dominant trouble maker, he is gentle, and needs a lot of guidance. He always wants to please and is extremely clever. I have had horsemanship lessons and they have advised me to take things slow and listen and watch for signals, she made a point of saying do not bully this horse... and that is how I would feel if I was yanking him with a chain
I adjusted the Dually yesterday and low and behold there was absolutely now nipping, he calmly walked with me with his head lowered

Thanks for the mixed advise it is great to hear different opinions and judge what may or may not help my boy.

If he is pulling away because he is 'genuinely frightened for his life' then I don't expect any sort of control headcollar / bridle / device will stop him. Like a true bolter won't stop.
If he is scared then he needs de-sensitising work.
If he's being a cheeky bu**er then dually's etc may work (along with training).

 

[Horsekaren]

If he is pulling away because he is 'genuinely frightened for his life' then I don't expect any sort of control headcollar / bridle / device will stop him. Like a true bolter won't stop.
If he is scared then he needs de-sensitising work.
If he's being a cheeky bu**er then dually's etc may work (along with training).

Exactly this is why I like the dually because I can tell when he is nervous, I see the signs and I can prepare for the moment as I can see it coming.
I have been thinking about de-sensitizing work, but I am going to leave it a few more months until he has had a good 5- 6 months to settle in his new home then we an tackle this

 

[Auslander]

Exactly this is why I like the dually because I can tell when he is nervous, I see the signs and I can prepare for the moment as I can see it coming.
I have been thinking about de-sensitizing work, but I am going to leave it a few more months until he has had a good 5- 6 months to settle in his new home then we an tackle this

The longer you leave it, the more of a problem it's going to become. I really think you need to get some help. It's not so much the horses behaviour that concerns me, but the way that you are thinking through problems. You are responsible for giving this horse boundaries, confidence and respect. At the moment, you seem to be trying to deal with the behaviour, which is commendable, but you're not doing the stuff that will set him up for a happy, confident future. You're waiting for the egg to break, then cleaning it up, rather than making sure the egg doesn't break in the first place.