Controlling a strong horse out hacking?

[Spirit3106]

Hiya! I posted a while ago about my loan horse who had very bad separation anxiety. The owner at the yard had another horse who I've started loaning. He's much more relaxed on his own, can be slightly pushy but easy to correct, and basically just not a massive headache to handle lol. He's very forward, which is something I normally find absolutely terrifying. But in the arena I've actually been finding him really fun! Which is something I'm very proud of because I can't even describe how scared forward horses usually make me I do lots of circles, changes of direction etc., when he starts getting strong, and I've also been practicing halting. Forward horses are a learning curve for me but in the arena I feel able to manage him safely.

I'd really like to be able to go out hacking with him once I get to know him better - the hacking is fabulous at the yard. However, him being strong is something I'd be concerned about. The routes for hacking include some steep hills, and generally are on narrow forest paths, so circles etc,. wouldn't really be an option. And most of the shorter routes involve turning around rather than looping, which I imagine would wind him up a lot coming home.
Today after riding him, I left the arena and planned to go left, to walk along the driveway/yard gate for a cool down. However, he started napping and really set his neck, pulling us right towards the yard and stables. He was difficult to slow down and jogged us all the way back, I couldn't circle him because he was just shuffling sideways.

I'm not expecting to go on any long solo hacks immediately but it's something I'd like to work on so we aren't limited to just arena work. Forwardness aside, he goes really nice in the arena, but I don't want to be out on a horse with no brakes! The yard also has lanes/tracks on the property so there are some safe areas to practice riding him outside the arena if needed. Does anyone have any suggestions on ways to practice handling him (groundwork or ridden) being so strong? Any safety tips or tricks? Thank
you!

 

[Babypony]

What bit is he ridden in?

 

[Spirit3106]

What bit is he ridden in?

He has an eggbutt lozenge snaffle.

 

[Babypony]

He has an eggbutt lozenge snaffle.

I’m probably old school, but depending on his head carriage I’d swap that for a Dutch gag or a kimblewick. See how you get on. Also lunge before hacking. If he’s still jogging he needs more lunging/schooling. You’ll probably get more up to date methods from other posters.

 

[Spirit3106]

I’m probably old school, but depending on his head carriage I’d swap that for a Dutch gag or a kimblewick. See how you get on. Also lunge before hacking. If he’s still jogging he needs more lunging/schooling. You’ll probably get more up to date methods from other posters.

Thanks for the suggestions! Since he's not my own horse I don't think I can switch his gear (plus I've never really used stronger bits on my own!), but the lunging and schooling is a good idea. He's been out of a regular work routine for a while.

 

[Jenko109]

Oh come on.

Nobody here has seen the OP ride and they sound reasonably novice.

Are we seriously suggesting that they change a bit of a horse that is not even theirs, from a simple snaffle to a bloody Dutch gag?



OP, do you have anyone that can accompany you on foot to begin with? The horse likely knows the hacking routes well and is probably used to only being able to go faster in certain places. You may find him no trouble at all and won't know unless you try. This is assuming he is already in work and hacked regularly.

 

[SOS]

Does his owner/someone else hack him regularly? If not he is going to find it exciting/scary as well as be forward, and may react very differently to in a school. Is he forward thinking or tense? If tense then I would be getting his owner or someone more experienced to be regularly hacking him before you do.

First I would make sure you have full control in the school. Can transition him up, down and within the paces with him listening. Make sure he’s not dictating the pace and that you’re not just telling him to slow down, you are in control at all times including moving forward as they can fool you into not riding upwards transitions. Start in walk, moving him into a more forward walk to a slower walk. You should be able to move from a tip toe to a march.

Being able to yield him also can be a very useful tool for managing a forward horse hacking. Some lessons might give you some really useful points to manage him.

Once you have full control find a steady, shock proof nanny horse and rider combo and start your hacking. I’d try your best to avoid turning back on yourself on this horse, as it can set even the quietest off.

Start small and build up as he’s probably lacking confidence at the moment. Remember riding across different terrains and down/up hill requires you to ride them differently, balance them appropriately and support the horse. An unsupported, unbalanced horse will rush and if they are forward thinking then this can end badly. They can also struggle if unfit so it’s a fine line between hacking them to the point they settle and over facing them.

Again if you’re not sure how to do this, get some lessons with an instructor potentially able to walk or ride out with you.

I would not put a stronger bit in unless recommended by a professional who has worked with you both and is happy this is the right choice.

Whilst I do agree in the concept of tiring a horse so they learn to settle, I would do it in a way that your hacks are purposeful walks which gradually get longer. Build in hills.

If you lunge your horse until it stops jogging everytime, particularly if they are forward as they are anxious, it will take sometime and you are going to have a much fitter horse to manage within a few weeks. In my experience, they can run on adrenaline for longer than their fitness and getting them wound up by smashing them round on the lunge isn’t going to improve their behaviour once on.

I personally don’t lunge in the traditional sense for freshness but would potentially work them on the ground moving with lots of quick transitions and get them thinking, yielding, moving backwards. But I needed teaching this, so again would recommend lessons.

 

[little_critter]

Just a question.
Does this horse look to get faster and faster (eg you want to walk, but he’s jogging and threatening to trot/ canter)
Or does he simply have a faster / more ground covering walk than the other horse?
If he’s simply a faster walker / trotter etc but is content to stay in the pace then I’d be less concerned.
If he’s looking to control the pace and if you did nothing then he’d get faster and faster then yes, that needs work.

 

[Spirit3106]

Just a question.
Does this horse look to get faster and faster (eg you want to walk, but he’s jogging and threatening to trot/ canter)
Or does he simply have a faster / more ground covering walk than the other horse?
If he’s simply a faster walker / trotter etc but is content to stay in the pace then I’d be less concerned.
If he’s looking to control the pace and if you did nothing then he’d get faster and faster then yes, that needs work.

No he's definitely trying to go faster, as in trying to go from walk>trot, occasionally trot>canter but trot definitely seems to be his favourite gait. I've only cantered him once so far and he came down to trot alright, but it can be hard to get him from trot down to walk. And he speeds up, if I keep him straight he absolutely shoots around.

 

[Spirit3106]

Oh come on.

Nobody here has seen the OP ride and they sound reasonably novice.

Are we seriously suggesting that they change a bit of a horse that is not even theirs, from a simple snaffle to a bloody Dutch gag?



OP, do you have anyone that can accompany you on foot to begin with? The horse likely knows the hacking routes well and is probably used to only being able to go faster in certain places. You may find him no trouble at all and won't know unless you try. This is assuming he is already in work and hacked regularly.

I might see if I can ask someone. Aside from trying (and failing) to get him to go down the lane I haven't tried hacking him at all, I don't know exactly what he's like other than that his owner has said "he wants to come home on the way back". He would definitely know the routes but hasn't had a consistent rider in a few months.

 

[Spirit3106]

Does his owner/someone else hack him regularly? If not he is going to find it exciting/scary as well as be forward, and may react very differently to in a school. Is he forward thinking or tense? If tense then I would be getting his owner or someone more experienced to be regularly hacking him before you do.

First I would make sure you have full control in the school. Can transition him up, down and within the paces with him listening. Make sure he’s not dictating the pace and that you’re not just telling him to slow down, you are in control at all times including moving forward as they can fool you into not riding upwards transitions. Start in walk, moving him into a more forward walk to a slower walk. You should be able to move from a tip toe to a march.

Being able to yield him also can be a very useful tool for managing a forward horse hacking. Some lessons might give you some really useful points to manage him.

Once you have full control find a steady, shock proof nanny horse and rider combo and start your hacking. I’d try your best to avoid turning back on yourself on this horse, as it can set even the quietest off.

Start small and build up as he’s probably lacking confidence at the moment. Remember riding across different terrains and down/up hill requires you to ride them differently, balance them appropriately and support the horse. An unsupported, unbalanced horse will rush and if they are forward thinking then this can end badly. They can also struggle if unfit so it’s a fine line between hacking them to the point they settle and over facing them.

Again if you’re not sure how to do this, get some lessons with an instructor potentially able to walk or ride out with you.

I would not put a stronger bit in unless recommended by a professional who has worked with you both and is happy this is the right choice.

Whilst I do agree in the concept of tiring a horse so they learn to settle, I would do it in a way that your hacks are purposeful walks which gradually get longer. Build in hills.

If you lunge your horse until it stops jogging everytime, particularly if they are forward as they are anxious, it will take sometime and you are going to have a much fitter horse to manage within a few weeks. In my experience, they can run on adrenaline for longer than their fitness and getting them wound up by smashing them round on the lunge isn’t going to improve their behaviour once on.

I personally don’t lunge in the traditional sense for freshness but would potentially work them on the ground moving with lots of quick transitions and get them thinking, yielding, moving backwards. But I needed teaching this, so again would recommend lessons.

Thank you for such a detailed response! In the school he does seem to be relaxed enough, he's responsive if I ask him to turn, ears flicking to me etc,.

Definitely, I am going to work more on pace and transitions with him. Also halting. One of my biggest concerns would be that to get to all the hacking routes there's a very steep track (and it's now muddy), and returning to the yard you come back downhill on it. It's definitely not the kind of footing you'd want to be on a joggy, out of control horse

Thank you for the lunging advice. If I do lunging work I will focus on transitions and responsiveness with him.

 

[Widgeon]

No he's definitely trying to go faster, as in trying to go from walk>trot, occasionally trot>canter but trot definitely seems to be his favourite gait. I've only cantered him once so far and he came down to trot alright, but it can be hard to get him from trot down to walk. And he speeds up, if I keep him straight he absolutely shoots around.

Do you have someone else on the yard with a calm (but not slow) horse who you can hack with? I would put plenty of time aside for a decent length circular hack in company, put him behind the other horse (assuming he doesn't get antsy behind) and trot on the flat and uphills and walk the downhills. You might find that once he realises he's in for a long haul he settles down a bit and stops pulling. If he's not calmer by the time you get back to the yard I'd be wondering what was wrong. Is he well behaved in-hand? If you're really worried about that last slippy hill I'd consider leading down it.

However that is all assuming that he is basically safe to hack and polite to handle, just a bit keen.

 

[Widgeon]

I might see if I can ask someone. Aside from trying (and failing) to get him to go down the lane I haven't tried hacking him at all, I don't know exactly what he's like other than that his owner has said "he wants to come home on the way back". He would definitely know the routes but hasn't had a consistent rider in a few months.

Hmm, sorry I'd missed that bit. I do think that asking him to go out on his own having not done it for ages was probably setting you both up to fail, but if he hasn't had a consistent rider in several months that's not an ideal situation to start hacking a horse who you're a bit anxious about anyway. I absolutely wouldn't go out alone to start with, as other have said a walker on foot or a mounted buddy would be the way to go to keep everyone safe.

 

[Exasperated]

Hmm, sorry I'd missed that bit. I do think that asking him to go out on his own having not done it for ages was probably setting you both up to fail, but if he hasn't had a consistent rider in several months that's not an ideal situation to start hacking a horse who you're a bit anxious about anyway. I absolutely wouldn't go out alone to start with, as other have said a walker on foot or a mounted buddy would be the way to go to keep everyone safe.

A lot of very valid safety concerns raised along this thread.
I’d second that OP does her hacking in company, ideally with an experienced horse/rider combo, but a foot follower would need to be a calibre fell runner to get in the work this horse clearly needs - maybe a keen mountain biker available?

 

[Lady Jane]

Re thge napping, sounds like you need to be much firmer with turning his neck, but you may not have the experience to see thris through. Lots of other good advice (except for changing his bit) so I will say no more. Good luck, he sounds fun

 

[Alibear]

If the owner hacks him, I'd find out when she does this, where do they go, what paces etc and replicate that to start with as he'll know the pattern so will be good if you follow it too. Once you're both confident and bored on pattern then try something new.

 

[Skib]

I couldn't circle him because he was just shuffling sideways.

But you should have been able to control both his speed and direction before hacking him out. Regardless of whether thehorse is shuffling sideways or not.

It all starts in the school. Cavalry horses were trained to obedience by riding dressage in the school. And if you havent got a school use the field or even a yard (halt walk and back up plus steering). As Richard Maxwell emphasised, a horse is like a car. Dont take it on the roads unless you have brakes and steering.
You need a reverse gear too. Make sure you can trot, halt, back up 4 paces and trot again before hacking out.
Download and buy some easy dressage tests and then ride them so both you and the horse have the discipline to change gait and directions at certain points.
Horses are herd animals so it makes sense to start by riding out with another horse, first following and eventually leading. If there isnt another horse, a friend walking by the horse.
If the horse is shuffling sideways, that is creating movement you dont want, Rashid used to explaijn that it may not be possibler to stop the movement but you can direct it,that is steer it. Forcer the horse's shuffle into walking a msall cirlce and continue circling untill the horse will halt for you. Then if you are not on a road, circle again a but in the other direction.
Circling in both directions and then backing up 4 steps is a good punishment for any horse.

 

[Widgeon]

a foot follower would need to be a calibre fell runner to get in the work this horse clearly needs - maybe a keen mountain biker available?

That is a very good point!

 

[Suechoccy]

Speak with the owner - do they hack him out? If so alone or in company? In same tack or different? What routes? What times of day?

If they don't, then why should you risk injuring yourself by trying to educate their horse in a potentially dangerous environment?

If you like riding him in the arena, then do so, and if you want to hack, ride a different horse. You'll find the skills you are learning in the arena on him will stand you well in hacking other other, trustworthy , quieter horses too. You can enjoy best of both worlds then in a safe way.

 

[Nari]

Seriously, it sounds to me like you're being taken advantage of. One unsuitable and unsafe horse has been replaced with another, you're paying to ride horses which are too much for you and that the owner should probably be paying to have reschooled. Please for your own safety find somewhere else to ride where you can progress on suitable and safe horses.

 

[AmyMay Again]

Seriously, it sounds to me like you're being taken advantage of. One unsuitable and unsafe horse has been replaced with another, you're paying to ride horses which are too much for you and that the owner should probably be paying to have reschooled. Please for your own safety find somewhere else to ride where you can progress on suitable and safe horses.

Such sound advice.

 

[Spirit3106]

Do you have someone else on the yard with a calm (but not slow) horse who you can hack with? I would put plenty of time aside for a decent length circular hack in company, put him behind the other horse (assuming he doesn't get antsy behind) and trot on the flat and uphills and walk the downhills. You might find that once he realises he's in for a long haul he settles down a bit and stops pulling. If he's not calmer by the time you get back to the yard I'd be wondering what was wrong. Is he well behaved in-hand? If you're really worried about that last slippy hill I'd consider leading down it.

However that is all assuming that he is basically safe to hack and polite to handle, just a bit keen.

Thank you. I think that might be a good idea, I might see if I can go hacking with the owner some weekend. I know it's practical to do a long haul hack to make it "boring" for him but I'd be nervous trying our first hack together as a long one

 

[Spirit3106]

Re thge napping, sounds like you need to be much firmer with turning his neck, but you may not have the experience to see thris through. Lots of other good advice (except for changing his bit) so I will say no more. Good luck, he sounds fun

Yeah that's definitely possible. I just wanted to try him up/down the lane to get an idea what he'd be like leaving the yard/arena, his strength took me by surprise but next time I attempt it I'll be firmer with him.

 

[Spirit3106]

Speak with the owner - do they hack him out? If so alone or in company? In same tack or different? What routes? What times of day?

If they don't, then why should you risk injuring yourself by trying to educate their horse in a potentially dangerous environment?

If you like riding him in the arena, then do so, and if you want to hack, ride a different horse. You'll find the skills you are learning in the arena on him will stand you well in hacking other other, trustworthy , quieter horses too. You can enjoy best of both worlds then in a safe way.

I'll ask the owner about it. Afaik she'd ride him in the same tack, he'd also have experience hacking out on his own on all the routes from what I'm aware. He's very fun in the arena and I think there's plenty we could work on so not hacking wouldn't be the end of the world but it would feel like a shame!

 

[Spirit3106]

Seriously, it sounds to me like you're being taken advantage of. One unsuitable and unsafe horse has been replaced with another, you're paying to ride horses which are too much for you and that the owner should probably be paying to have reschooled. Please for your own safety find somewhere else to ride where you can progress on suitable and safe horses.

Thank you for your concern and input! It's actually the best loan situation I've been able to find in my area and there's basically no riding schools close enough to go regularly anymore unfortunately.

I've yet to actually try this horse out on a hack, barring me testing him on the lane and being taken by surprise. I think I'm not ready to give up on him yet. I like this horse so far and I've found him manageable in the arena, so I'm hoping my fears/struggles are moreso just an issue with my own assertiveness rather than him being dangerous. The last one I tried and was getting absolutely nowhere with, but I do feel that this one has fewer quirks and seems to be more receptive to me.