controversial Post people who can’t afford their horse

[HopOnTrot]

When I bought my first horse my rent was £525, 14 years later a similar flat is over £1000 a month. That’s a 2 bed flat in a converted town house, no garden or parking, only slightly less than my mortgage on a cottage with an acre of garden!

 

[Abacus]

The true cost of land is something that doesn’t feature in most evaluations here. The posts I am reading are from a horse owner’s perspective of the sum of horse ownership costs, and to be honest they are cheap considering the investment and time needed to keep land.

If I were to look at what my little yard (10 acres, expensive area) really costs… I probably spend £5k plus on maintenance and improvements per year. Insurance is over £700. And it cost £220k to buy, and if it were a livery yard (it isn’t) I would want a return on that investment of at least 5% (which I can get in a savings account). So if I ran it as a livery yard I’d need to get back £16.5k per year.

It would support 6 liveries if I didn’t have my own horses, and so each should pay £2.8k per year for being there - just to break even. So that would be £230 per month for DIY livery. Actually for the one livery I have, she pays £150 - nowhere close to the real financial value.

 

[HopOnTrot]

Also cars! Insurance, fuel and the lack of “cheap” cars means being mobile is much more expensive than it was before.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I read threads like this and thank my lucky stars I am ok with affording mine generally.
That’s solely down to luck though. The fact i got with a farmer I guess
I do work every weekend, not big hours but every weekend none the less to make sure they get everything they need. sadly Mr P isn’t able to shoe or provide vet treatment, physio, dentistry etc (annoyingly!)
I absolutely couldn’t do it without him (eugh I hope he never reads this!)
I’d manage my one at a DIY yard. The ponies and second/first horse are a luxury to be able to give them a nice life/retirement

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I was always on a tight budget, and it definitely delayed me having enough to have a deposit on a house, if I hadn't met OH I think I'd still be living at home

When they announced the cost of living increase, I made the decision to pts (I couldn't pass him on as he was 24 with Cushing's and didn't cope well with change) because I wanted to help out more with the house costs which would increase. The COL increase tipped me over, and as in the last few months of having him in the lead up a family member who helped me out a lot with him was already having to help me financially with bulk costs (e.g bedding or his prascend) I absolutely couldn't justify it anymore. I knew I'd have struggled too much, and didn't want to get to that point where it was impacting on our ability to cover home costs

OH didn't pressure me at all, I made the decision, and I don't miss the financial stress of having a horse. The extra I'm able to put into household costs doesn't scratch the surface of what I was having to pay for horse costs, despite having very reasonable livery. I wouldn't have been able to put in any extra of I had the horse costs. OH already covers more than me due to earning more, I couldn't justify asking him to carry the load even further

That said I eventually want children and I think childcare is the only thing that makes horses look cheap!!

 

[shanti]

I have my own property so no livery fees but, out of the 36 animals I currently have, the horses cost me more than the rest put together. I am on a very good salary, and I am always broke.
They also take up more of my time and are the worst for my mental health due to the constant stress. I don't know why I have them if I'm honest, I just can't seem to do without them.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Mine are kept basic in a local field so are relatively cheap to keep to be honest. Most stuff is bought second hand, no fancy feeds or supplements etc. They have the basics such as dentist, farrier, saddle fitter, physio regularly with no skimping there but that's about it.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but I still believe alot of people over complicate horse ownership, it doesn't need to be as hard as it seems for some.

 

[Denali]

I put my horse down in November. Affordability was in question and she would be a pasture puff. Vet bills for said pasture puff life and her age led me to make that decision.

 

[pistolpete]

The laws in Spain have been changed so vets have to argue to keep animals alive unless they’re are in pain so our convenience euthanasias are not an option there. Wonder if that will ever happen here?

 

[ycbm]

The laws in Spain have been changed so vets have to argue to keep animals alive unless they’re are in pain so our convenience euthanasias are not an option there. Wonder if that will ever happen here?

What kind of animal welfare issues is that going to cause?

They still bullfight in some areas and eat factory farmed meat, I guess?
.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I'm very lucky now as I don't work Mr P pays for everything and the horses are at home, they are fairly cheap to keep as mainly live out don't have shoes, don't need much hard feed my biggest expense is hay in winter really I like to feed ad lib.

Years ago when I had a job and a horse I did struggle a bit I mainly worked or ran yards so I had to do alot of mucking out to pay for my own.

 

[pistolpete]

What kind of animal welfare issues is that going to cause?

They still bullfight in some areas and eat factory farmed meat, I guess?
.

I don’t have all the details but a horse with a tendon injury no longer rideable but field sound could not be euthanised. That’s where the discussion came from. I am not saying I agree with it. Far from it.

 

[Ceifer]

The laws in Spain have been changed so vets have to argue to keep animals alive unless they’re are in pain so our convenience euthanasias are not an option there. Wonder if that will ever happen here?

I think something similar applies in Portugal. A friend had an elderly horse that had numerous teeth problems and really needed to be pts but the vet wanted her to get him referred for an extraction which would have been stressful for him. In the end the vet did pts but was worried about his license.

 

[ihatework]

There are plenty of people who can’t afford their horses.

Yes they can afford the day to day basics and all is fine. Until it’s not.
Until there is a massive vet bill that the insurance doesn’t cover.
Until that cheap rented field they have had for years is no longer available.
Until their cheap livery yard calls it a day and gives notice.

We are accelerating towards these scenarios alarmingly quickly I’m afraid.

 

[marmalade76]

I don’t have all the details but a horse with a tendon injury no longer rideable but field sound could not be euthanised. That’s where the discussion came from. I am not saying I agree with it. Far from it.

They'll end up inflicting injuries to get round that

 

[marmalade76]

There are plenty of people who can’t afford their horses.

Yes they can afford the day to day basics and all is fine. Until it’s not.
Until there is a massive vet bill that the insurance doesn’t cover.
Until that cheap rented field they have had for years is no longer available.
Until their cheap livery yard calls it a day and gives notice.

We are accelerating towards these scenarios alarmingly quickly I’m afraid.

This may well happen to me, I've always had cheap livery/never kept my horse on a proper livery yard. I've had to move in thr past due to properties being sold and I expect that will happen to the one I'm at now eventually. But as I've said before, I could easily give up horse owning now, at this point in my life it really wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[palo1]

There are plenty of people who can’t afford their horses.

Yes they can afford the day to day basics and all is fine. Until it’s not.
Until there is a massive vet bill that the insurance doesn’t cover.
Until that cheap rented field they have had for years is no longer available.
Until their cheap livery yard calls it a day and gives notice.

We are accelerating towards these scenarios alarmingly quickly I’m afraid.

This! There is far less resilience too in every area of equestrian life: individually for owners and across the industry, in part because of long term financial trends where, for example, a riding school could afford to operate AND offer a way for people to get into equestrianism without taking on all the jeopardy of owning a horse; but regulations, and the increase of relatively cheap and basic DIY livery meant that for many people, buying a horse seemed better than using a RS. Now, however that has become difficult for people in lots of ways, especially because poor quality land management around horses and the drive for landowners to maximise any income they can just makes keeping horses harder and actually more expensive! There is no safety net in that system either. The COL crisis has just highlighted and exacerbated those existing holes in equine management and the real costs of horse ownership.

In personal human terms, we are, I think, less knowledgeable, less skilled and far more fragile in horsemanship than we ever have been; the loss of riding schools and cohesive equestrian education as standard has meant that many, many people don't know how a saddle should fit, how to feed a horse simply, how to have an appropriate programme of fittening and work, how to assess musculature, soundness and what appropriate ambition may be for any particular horse. Instead we have delegated much to niche experts (many of whom are excellent), some of whom have to capitalise their expertise and who don't always get the chance to work in sync with other experts where that is needed. Horse owners can end up in a horrible cycle of needing several expensive experts to keep a horse going. Potentially, that could be avoided with a different knowledge base and approaches at an earlier stage. The insurance and veterinary costs issue has also made the cost of 'normal' horse keeping quite difficult for many people. It is sad. However, it really is possible for us to develop skills and knowledge to make it easier and better, though that is not so much in the interest of the 'industry' part of horse keeping...

 

[Abacus]

the drive for landowners to maximise any income they can

Do you think that someone who owns land shouldn't make a reasonable return from it, whether that is in rent/livery/development? Appreciate there are wider issues with the last of these but mostly if people can make money, they will.

 

[palo1]

Do you think that someone who owns land shouldn't make a reasonable return from it, whether that is in rent/livery/development? Appreciate there are wider issues with the last of these but mostly if people can make money, they will.

Yes, I agree! Years ago there was a culture of landowners being able to accommodate a grass livery or two without it being a financial loss at all; that is definitely not the case now and equestrian culture has also changed so that the horse keepers are viewed with generally more suspicion I think. There is much more distance in 'values' terms now between land owners and horse owners so there is often tension there.

ETA: We have our own land and actually, I would find it very challenging to accommodate a livery, largely because of concerns about serious differences in terms of values and the constant tightrope walking between careful land management and animal welfare. I find it hard enough on our own land, with my own horses!

 

[Bellaboo18]

Every livery yard I've been on over the last 30 years has had at least one person that's tried to keep their horse/s on a shoestring. They can pay for the horse as long as *nothing* goes wrong, unfortunately with horses and life things do go wrong. I wouldn't want to have horses in that situation, I can't even imagine the stress.

 

[Maxidoodle]

I’ve had horses 46 years, had good jobs, have always been broke. It’s not a cheap hobby.

 

[Jambarissa]

I remember the days when the standard advice was to just ask the local farmer if you could stick a pony in with his cows and they generally said yes.

I dont think there were any actual livery yards near me, just a riding school where you could keep your horse if you were posh/rich and a fair few farms who would accept a few horses.

 

[equinerebel]

Threads like this make me see the positive side of my decision to leave horse ownership after my horse has gone. I don't want to continue struggling so much for the rest of my life. My horse has everything she needs, but the costs are only going up.

 

[setterlover]

I think people who own land / stables are far more apprehensive about having other people on their property.
We have stabling for 11 horses and outdoor arena and an indoor sand school and 15 acres we are down to 3 horses and I regularly get people coming to the house and asking if I will take liveries.
The answer will always be no!
I do not want the grief of coping with someone else on our land not keeping horses as I would .Arriving really early or riding really late disturbing our peace because of their work hours or going to a show.
I know when I shut my gates they stay shut and it's safe to let my dogs out on the property .When we lock up at 6 to 7 pm we are not disturbed by people coming onto the property.
Selfish I know but really good liveries are quite rare and we value our privacy far more than any financial remuneration.
When we finally have no horses rather than rent the facilities we will sell up and downsize.

 

[Jambarissa]

I said I was going to give up horses when my oldies were gone, 2 of the 3 went and I had a crisis and bought 2 more

I do expect these to be my last though, assuming good health I'll be in my 70s when they go and that would not be a sensible time to buy a horse!

Or would it? Am I just going to sit in a chair and wait for God? Must cultivate non - horsey hobbies!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

It tough as I think COL has caught up with folk.

Recently we were tipped off about a couple of non-payers seeking livery. One of them I knew. Nice lady, well educated and employed but somehow life has her in this position and as a result been asked to leave her current livery.

We are a small community - word spread swiftly and as a result it’s tough for her to find any type of livery. She is embarrassed but can’t pay her outstanding debt let alone a new livery arrangement.

 

[ihatework]

I think people who own land / stables are far more apprehensive about having other people on their property.
We have stabling for 11 horses and outdoor arena and an indoor sand school and 15 acres we are down to 3 horses and I regularly get people coming to the house and asking if I will take liveries.
The answer will always be no!
I do not want the grief of coping with someone else on our land not keeping horses as I would .Arriving really early or riding really late disturbing our peace because of their work hours or going to a show.
I know when I shut my gates they stay shut and it's safe to let my dogs out on the property .When we lock up at 6 to 7 pm we are not disturbed by people coming onto the property.
Selfish I know but really good liveries are quite rare and we value our privacy far more than any financial remuneration.
When we finally have no horses rather than rent the facilities we will sell up and downsize.

I completely get that.
I’ve just bought a parcel of land as a nursery/retirement plot for my own.

I’m not averse to having 1-2 others but they will need to pay their way, and be fully managed by me in my system.

I’ve already had a number of acquaintances ask. Only one person hasn’t baulked at my terms/figures!

 

[Fransurrey]

One has just taken her rugs off and the horses are very thin, our haylage is unlimited so presumably she's cut feed.

Hmmm, given that forage should be the bulk of a horse's diet and you are offered adlib, I'd say this is more than cutting out feed. My cob gets half a scoop of Pure Easy a day and that's it. My mare gets just enough to hide half a bute sachet in it! If I cut that out it wouldn't affect their waistlines - just their enthusiasm for coming up the field!

There have always been people that underestimate the costs - I know I did when I started out. What's changed is the gap between wages and costs, so they're running into trouble much sooner, so more people are indeed buying horses KNOWING they can't really afford it. Same principle as people splashing out on the latest stupidly large TV/phone/car, except the inanimate objects have less unpredictable costs. I'm still quite comfortable, despite reducing my working hours, but I've always been tight as a duck's ass when it comes to luxuries. We've got the bases more than covered, though. I won't be replacing mine when they go, either, although that's as much a lifestyle decision as a financial one.

 

[honetpot]

This! There is far less resilience too in every area of equestrian life: individually for owners and across the industry, in part because of long term financial trends where, for example, a riding school could afford to operate AND offer a way for people to get into equestrianism without taking on all the jeopardy of owning a horse; but regulations, and the increase of relatively cheap and basic DIY livery meant that for many people, buying a horse seemed better than using a RS. Now, however that has become difficult for people in lots of ways, especially because poor quality land management around horses and the drive for landowners to maximise any income they can just makes keeping horses harder and actually more expensive! There is no safety net in that system either. The COL crisis has just highlighted and exacerbated those existing holes in equine management and the real costs of horse ownership.

In personal human terms, we are, I think, less knowledgeable, less skilled and far more fragile in horsemanship than we ever have been; the loss of riding schools and cohesive equestrian education as standard has meant that many, many people don't know how a saddle should fit, how to feed a horse simply, how to have an appropriate programme of fittening and work, how to assess musculature, soundness and what appropriate ambition may be for any particular horse. Instead we have delegated much to niche experts (many of whom are excellent), some of whom have to capitalise their expertise and who don't always get the chance to work in sync with other experts where that is needed. Horse owners can end up in a horrible cycle of needing several expensive experts to keep a horse going. Potentially, that could be avoided with a different knowledge base and approaches at an earlier stage. The insurance and veterinary costs issue has also made the cost of 'normal' horse keeping quite difficult for many people. It is sad. However, it really is possible for us to develop skills and knowledge to make it easier and better, though that is not so much in the interest of the 'industry' part of horse keeping...

What makes me sad that the pony mad child I was a twelve will never have the same opportunities, even though riding was seen as a posh sport, you could blag a ride by mucking out, until you fell off less and were useful.

 

[SEL]

There are plenty of people who can’t afford their horses.

Yes they can afford the day to day basics and all is fine. Until it’s not.
Until there is a massive vet bill that the insurance doesn’t cover.
Until that cheap rented field they have had for years is no longer available.
Until their cheap livery yard calls it a day and gives notice.

We are accelerating towards these scenarios alarmingly quickly I’m afraid.

I see this quite a lot around here as yards go for housing.

Those dirt cheap DIY yards just aren't around any longer and finding a paddock to rent is like winning the lottery. There's a lovely 3 acre one in our village that has been empty for years because the owners is back and forwards with the planners. He won't rent it to anyone in case that works against building houses on it.

I see a lot of people dropping insurance and saying they won't put their horse through an expensive operation without really understanding that costs can build up just with 'normal' injuries. Then the credit cards have to come out and it all gets very horrible.

Many riding schools have closed down and they were the place where youngsters got to learn about horse-keeping (the good, the bad and the ugly!) without the overheads and commitment of owning a horse.

I can remember getting a quote for assisted livery in 2002 and it was £90 per week. I don't think the 20 years since then prices went up much and so the recent necessary hikes have caused pain to a lot of horse owners.