Conundrum - Dun "greying out"

[3bh]

Edited - according to the CPBS of Ireland the dam is grey dun, though I don't have any pictures. They recognise the sire i pictured before as "dun".
It seemed strange to me that both the CPBS (ireland) and the BCPS consider her to be dun(just plain "dun"!), if the breed can't possibly be dun?! I would have thought they should be aware of their colour genetics, in the same way as the coloured societies recognise tobiano, sabino etc.

She was bought as a "cream dun" but a Connie judge/breeder described her to me as a grey dun. Confused.com! Thank goodness my other two are just plain bay thoroughbreds!

 

[Tuffles 23]

This is brill
Are little connie is passported as golden dun but have just found out she is really buckskin , she has no white and when clipped she looks gray we have summer pony and winter pony
Op your pony looks Dun/Buckskin to me .

 

[Puppy]

Interesting. My connie x TB is by a little stallion called 'Song of Freedom' and depending on where you look he is listed as dun/silver dun/grey dun/grey etc.

http://www.ballinteggartstud.com/song-of-freedom-cpbs

My boy is very definitely buckskin in colour at the mo, but only 5. Is there really a chance he might grey out?

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

Have no idea, will do some digging though. It seemed strange to me that both the Irish connemara society and the BCPS consider her to be dun, if the breed can't possibly be dun?! I would have thought they should be aware of their colour genetics, in the same way as the coloured societies recognise tobiano, sabino etc.

A lot of breed societys actually have the 'wrong' colours included if you have a nosey at this website it explains a lot of grey v roan etc confusing within breed standards

www.whitehorseproductions.com/equinecolour.html

This is also fun if you want to learn the basics

jenniferhoffman.net/horse/horse-color-genetics.html

 

[Jesstickle]

Grey dun? Grey dun looks grey to me! I can't see what about it makes it not grey? Unless they mean it was dun (buckskin) before it greyed out perhaps

 

[3bh]

I don't think I can deny this any more - here is dam line, its going grey isn't it!!!

http://www.connemara-pony.com/pony-pedigree.php?id=M0009527

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It seemed strange to me that both the Irish connemara society and the BCPS consider her to be dun, if the breed can't possibly be dun?!

It's very backwards of them. I don't understand why they are so behind the times.

Song of Freedom is a grey (born buckskin).

I would have though that by five, you would see the typical signs of greying out (eg grey hairs around the eyes). My grey was pure white/grey by two years of age (now fleabitten) although she did grey out super fast. The speed seems to vary horse to horse.

 

[Jesstickle]

I'm going to go into business testing for the grey gene!

There is merit in saying grey dun I guess as at least then you know what the other copy of the gene is doing I guess.

 

[only_me]

Interesting. My connie x TB is by a little stallion called 'Song of Freedom' and depending on where you look he is listed as dun/silver dun/grey dun/grey etc.

http://www.ballinteggartstud.com/song-of-freedom-cpbs

My boy is very definitely buckskin in colour at the mo, but only 5. Is there really a chance he might grey out?

Just as we have a yearling by SoF as well - SoF is a grey dun, and she is definately going to grey out, she is a dark dun at the moment but has all the signs of greying out, and she was out of a bright bay tb.

I think your boy will probably grey out, most by SoF here tend to (and is a local stallion!)

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Although you do get surprises, eg you could get a chestnut foal from two greys (both born bay) as long as both parents are heterozygous for grey and both carry a chestnut gene.

 

[Jesstickle]

Faracat- Clobal's link says homozygous for the white gene is embryonic lethal Phew, I wasn't making it up!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Faracat- Clobal's link says homozygous for the white gene is embryonic lethal Phew, I wasn't making it up!

Thanks. I looked it up and it seems to be the Dominant White gene.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2065884/

 

[Puppy]

This is my boy -

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sooty buckskin. I can't see any grey hairs in that photo.

 

[TarrSteps]

You could get him tested.

Re the sire, is he still around? As said, yours cannot be grey without a grey parent but some horses can be tricky - I used to work for a Trak breeder who sometimes produced horses that looked similar at backing age only to grey out to nearly white quite quickly. He does look very buckskin though!

http://www.horsedna.co.uk/

There you go. Not even crazy money to find out.

 

[event_rider]

This is my boy -

Ours are very similar in colour (mine's a little lighter!) - I'll be watching your's with interest!

http://www.horsedna.co.uk/

There you go. Not even crazy money to find out.

Have done this before with the Irish Sport Horse register with a previous youngster that was supposedly by Cruising but they'd "lost" his papers. Needless to say, he wasn't. It's a shame that you have to specify the sire that you want them to test against as it would be great if they could "match" unknown horses to sires.

As mentioned, my horse was the first and last of the sire's stock and have no idea where he's gone. So unfortunately, DNA testing wont be an option in my case

 

[sammiea]

A connie that I used to ride for some owners was buckskin and went rather "silver/greyish" in the winter but was the most beautiful buckskin in summer he definatley hasnt grey'd out.

 

[ironhorse]

Our YO's wife has just clipped out a buckskin QH that has been the most amazing range of colours this year to reveal - TaDa! a black coat underneath!
Mine - also a QH (4yo) is a real golden colour all year round with lots of variation - he went almost orange bay in the summer

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1504501.110961.100000078295506&type=3&theater

It's a lot of fun, but as we compete western it makes choosing your show clothing colours a bit complicated!

I wouldn't worry too much about the passport - it says 'black' on our grey mare's papers and even the normally paranoid AQHA are quite relaxed about that

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

on a diff note-didnt realise you were meant to get passports ammended?

Bruce was solid liver chesnut as a 4yo, only clue he was going to grey out was his grey tail.....his passport has him as liver chesnut but he has roaned out more and more each year and is now grey to all intents and purposes/naked eye.

he's nearly 16yo, is it worth getting it ammended? he wont ever be sold on from us.

 

[event_rider]

on a diff note-didnt realise you were meant to get passports ammended?

Bruce was solid liver chesnut as a 4yo, only clue he was going to grey out was his grey tail.....his passport has him as liver chesnut but he has roaned out more and more each year and is now grey to all intents and purposes/naked eye.

he's nearly 16yo, is it worth getting it ammended? he wont ever be sold on from us.

My initial thought was that I'd have trouble at vet checks at FEI competitions as the horse presented potentially wont match his passport.

...Then again, I supposedly quit eventing for good two years ago so I guess I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it!

 

[dafthoss]

My boy is passported as dun but is technically buckskin. He also goes considerably lighter, almost cream, when he has his winter coat and is a mankey grey colour when clipped out. But is definatly yellow in the summer.

As for the grey duns JFTD's ferge is a grey dun, the rest of him is greying out but he has kept his dorsal stripe if that helps clear it up a little.

 

[ArcticFox]

on a diff note-didnt realise you were meant to get passports ammended?

Bruce was solid liver chesnut as a 4yo, only clue he was going to grey out was his grey tail.....his passport has him as liver chesnut but he has roaned out more and more each year and is now grey to all intents and purposes/naked eye.

he's nearly 16yo, is it worth getting it ammended? he wont ever be sold on from us.

If he was mine, i'd ignore it, unless he is likely to be sold, taken abroad or competed at some FEI comp - and if that happened if he has a microchip you'd probably be ok!

 

[Thistle]

If a horse has a microchip then it doesn't need a colour/markings etc to be filled in.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I would be telling them to change it to dun/buckskin as he doesn't look grey in any of the pics.

Also if he has a recorded date of birth then why is the vet saying he's a year older? Surely the breeder knows when he was birthed? Or have I read your posts wrong

 

[Thistle]

I would be telling them to change it to dun/buckskin as he doesn't look grey in any of the pics.

Also if he has a recorded date of birth then why is the vet saying he's a year older? Surely the breeder knows when he was birthed? Or have I read your posts wrong

Agree with this, surely his breeder knows when he was born. Ageing by teeth is very imprecise, esp done by a vet. If you want him aged by teeth better to ask a dentist.

 

[Cortez]

Having been a breeder (and knowing all the birth days) I can tell you that ageing by teeth is a very inexact business; the teeth can be incorrect by as much as two years! And vets are often pretty pants at the teeth anyway.