Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits

onceuponatime said:
I understand it is hard to determine what sentence an 11 year old should get but there has to be some sort of punishment - not just let the them walk free! I also heard today from a friend of mine then when walking from the court with the father he (the father) made all sorts of vile jestures infront of cameras and the child followed with a torrent of abuse. They should have both been turned around and marched back into the court room. As for the 15 year old - a spell in a dentention centre wouldn't have gone amiss!

The trouble is that as much as David Cameron has said 'they will pay' - how will they pay and who will decide? A judge? Someone who has never suffered the loss that some of these people who are victims of these riots have! Someone who has never had their family run down by irresponsible scum as they tried to guard their property. Someone who has never had their child pulled of their bike beaten and then robbed. Someone who has never had a member of their family shot. Someone who has never had a member of their family beaten to death for trying to put out a fire. Someone who has never lost their home/all their possesions due to the action of mindless lowlife and so the list goes on! Maybe Parliament should be made up partially of people who have suffered at the hands of others - those who know what real pain is and know that time maybe a great healer but there are some things that are never forgotten!

If capital punishment had been restored and a few examples had been made - I am sure 'normal service would be resumed!'
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Are you seriously suggesting that somebody should be hanged for stealing a plasma TV?
 
Are your seriously thick or just plain bloody stupid???????

Compared to what some people lost the stealing of a plasma tv pales into insignificance. Of course I don't bloody well think someone should be hanged for stealing a tv - moron - but I do think they should be made an example of given the circumstances and I do think by bringing back capital punishment we would not have to suffer at the hands of these low life scum.
 
onceuponatime said:
Are your seriously thick or just plain bloody stupid???????

Compared to what some people lost the stealing of a plasma tv pales into insignificance. Of course I don't bloody well think someone should be hanged for stealing a tv - moron - but I do think they should be made an example of given the circumstances and I do think by bringing back capital punishment we would not have to suffer at the hands of these low life scum.
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How pleasant.

Pretty sure capital punishment doesn't act as a deterrent, but you carry on.
 
onceuponatime said:
Are your seriously thick or just plain bloody stupid???????

Compared to what some people lost the stealing of a plasma tv pales into insignificance. Of course I don't bloody well think someone should be hanged for stealing a tv - moron - but I do think they should be made an example of given the circumstances and I do think by bringing back capital punishment we would not have to suffer at the hands of these low life scum.
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How funny! Weren't you the one just saying that the kid and his parent should have been marched into court for giving a torrent of abuse - then two posts later are calling someone seriously thick, plain bliddy stupid and a moron!
 
The death penalty ,if brought back,would certainly be a deterrent to murderers.At the moment ,for killing someone you get out after seven years. The threat of an equal penalty in my opinion would curb what is today quite a commonplace crime.
As for these scrotes looting..a bit of demeaning corporal punishment fits the bill.
 
take the benefits away? what will that solve? a lot of these people have
never known how to behave or lost hope, who's fault is that?

education, education, education, tony blair

i am sure inside everyone there is some good or more importantly talent,

this is purely criminality, david cameron


yes but who are the real criminals here, or should i say the idiots?


the example and action of the people at the top are the first place to look before blaming the population, they have the resources, and the power to act, they set the example, they have wasted the finances of the country, and are clueless about education and devoid of any intelligent notions of how they personally have bought this about and of course have no idea how to rectify the situation.

when in doubt blame the victim
 
The fault lies with stupid laws brought in so that both parents and teachers cannot instill discipline,that is when all hope of any respect for others went out the window.
 
Honey08 said:
How funny! Weren't you the one just saying that the kid and his parent should have been marched into court for giving a torrent of abuse - then two posts later are calling someone seriously thick, plain bliddy stupid and a moron!
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Calling some thick or plain bloody stupid goes nowhere near to an 11 year old calling the camera men c**** and telling them to ******* off!!!! Neither does it hold to the fathers gesticulations!!! You are as bad as the plasma tv situation!
 
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I was wondering......if a looter/rioter is convicted and they subsequently turn out to be a member of an equestrian body (BE, BSJA, BD, BHS, etc) should they receive a lifetime ban?

Would get my vote!
 
Yes of course!

And as for calming down - I really am insensed at these appalling actions but some people have short memories. I have a friend in Ealing who business was affected by the riots and I feel for her and her family. I have another friend in Clapham who could see the riots from their window and they were terrified! Calm down? I have a right to voice how I feel and if I have offended .......
 
This thread got me thinking about benefits in general and has made me wonder why there isn't some sort of "condition" attached to receiving benefits, such as a set number of hours per week spent working at some sort of charity, like daycare centres for the elderly and so on? Surely that would help to solve several problems at once, getting people out of the house and "working", even if they can't find a proper, paying job; and helping to preserve charities and insulate them from the cuts.
 
Onceuponatime - You have offended me, actually. But let's stick to the thread in hand.

What exactly are you proposing that we use capital punishment for?
 
hashrouge, they do that in usa i believe its called workfare.

if all that energy could be put into something constructive.

you only have to watch young horses playing all the time to know that young people have the same life force drives that need direction, it seems it bursts out in the wrong way if there are no outlets.

these youngsters need to be valued as human from an early age and their abilities uncovered and channelled towards a future in which they can see they have a stake in society, as it is they are like undisciplined animals with no boundaries, and sadly no self esteem.
 
Seafarer said:
Onceuponatime - You have offended me, actually. But let's stick to the thread in hand.

What exactly are you proposing that we use capital punishment for?
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There is an old saying 'an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth' etc., if someone goes out with the intent to kill or causes death by destruction (as with the three men in Birmingham, them man in Ealing, the man shot in Croydon) then capital punishment should be used. You have obviously never had someone very close to you killed by their neighbour in a senseless, meaningless manor and sat through a court case, seen the murderer convicted to seven years imprisonment and released in five? This is one of the reasons I feel so strongly. I do not think that someone who has killed with intent should be allowed to serve their sentence in the 'University for Criminals' and then walk our streets again.

Regarding those who have looted and set fire to property/beaten and stolen from others and clearly from some of the photos shown on the TV are VERY pleased with their lot - I am not saying that capital punishment befits the crime but there are other ways of making examples of these individuals. As this post began - remove their benefits, make sure they can never sign on again, if they are council tenants - they lose their homes, put a curfew on them - don't let them walk the streets at nights. You can't imprison all of them there is not enough room. If we are going to harp on about the 'plasma tv' thread - why make a joke of it? At the end of the day we. the taxpayers bear the brunt of all this!

To most of us the re-introduction of capital punishment would never affect our lives so why would we worry? Forensics have moved on! There are ways of proving beyond reasonable doubt whether someone is guilty or not.
 
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EAST KENT said:
The fault lies with stupid laws brought in so that both parents and teachers cannot instill discipline,that is when all hope of any respect for others went out the window.
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the fault lies with the hand winging leftys that have done as much as possible to encorage a feckless srounging underclass and as much as possible to undermine law and order, self respect and pride and comunity... from buldozing houses and building tower blocks to attacking grammer school education the over generous welfare payments they have done untold harm to the country just to further themselves.. labour scum vile self serving hipcrites ....
 
onceuponatime said:
Calling some thick or plain bloody stupid goes nowhere near to an 11 year old calling the camera men c**** and telling them to ******* off!!!! Neither does it hold to the fathers gesticulations!!! You are as bad as the plasma tv situation!
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I'm not saying it was. I thought those people were awful. I'm just saying that you're not coming across as whiter than white either. Everything that happened was sickening and disgusting. We're all appalled, but insulting other people on forums doesn't do anything. It just makes you look stoopid and aggressive.
 
e wonder why there isn't some sort of "condition" attached to receiving benefits, such as a set number of hours per week spent working at some sort of charity, like daycare centres for the elderly and so on?
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Unfortunately they actively discourage charity work while on benefits. When I first came out of uni I could not get a job (and I was applying for everything from office work to scrubbing floors), I was on benefits for 6 months. All the jobs I was applying for seemed to require more experience than I had and I thought some sort of charity based work would do well to bulk out my CV and give something back for what I was getting. Unfortunately I can't remember the figures but there was a limit of something like 5 hours a week on how much you could do, not enough to boost a CV.
 
Magicmillbrook said:
Signed. I this is totaly disgusting. We are all having a tough time at the moment. I just dont understand how destroying and looting prooves any point, just costs everyone a whole load more money. Bring back national service I say, teach the little twits some repsect for others and themselves.
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they dont care most of them dont work to pay taxes anyway so its no skin of their noses. Though I wonder if they ever heard the term you dont **** on your own doorstep!

Ungreatfull little ********ers!!!
 
JessicA 555 - WELL WRITTEN.

Honey08 - 'Stoopid'? Aggressive? Not me! Your really do have the wrong person there. But I cannot be bothered and don't see why I should justify myself.
 
Irish only- I understand the concept of the e petition but this was contains a basic spelling error which completely alters the meaning of the whole thing. Even if every mp agreed that they should LOSE their benefits, that is not what is up for debate...
 
Tony Blair has devalued the British education system so much that an undergraduate degree is essentially worthless (BSc Surf Studies anyone?) and teachers too scared to teach, not to mention the fact that frequently their students speak fifty different languages, english being their second tongue. Pupils aspire to X Factor rather than becoming a pilot or a fireman; apprenticeships were phased out almost entirely: girls wanted to become a WAG and boys wanted to become a footballer. Aspirations are replaced by human rights.

People have been given everything so have nothing to work towards (how many times have you heard of people choosing benefits over working as they are better off this way?) regardless of whether they are from this country or from anywhere else in the world.

If I were in charge, I would be put the rioters in orange jumpsuits and chains and have them rebuild the communities they desecrated. I would introduce corporal, not capital punishment: if a lot of them had been given a good smack bottom as a child, they would have had a little more respect in their elders instilled. The trouble is they often have no father's and behave as such because they can. I really don't know what I would do to stop girls from having babies just to get a flat: take away the flat? take away the child?
Maybe a legal age for parenting?

There would be a two child policy: replace yourselves. More children than that and there would be fines, and parents would have to be responsible for their children behaviour. These families of fourteen childreen paid for by us taxpayers would be a thing of the past, as would the hit-and-run asylum seeker living an a £2m North London mansion. I expect the asylum seekers would be seeking refuge somewhere else. I would certainly have the message that the UK is not somewhere to escape to put out there, and the human rights legislation would be overturned. Human Rights would be for those decent law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.

Teachers would be given back their authority and policemen given walking boots and set to patrol on foot/bike. As for benefits, well if you are able to work, then get on and work: none of these disability and incapacity benefits which decentivise people. If I really had to pay benefits, then there would be enough to live on basically, not more.

Anyway, that would be my personal idea for utopia. End of rant.
 
Woodtiger you make many good points with which I entirely agree. The crux of the matter is that in the last twenty or thirty years people have begun to believe there is no consequence for their actions and thus have no respect or regard for authority.
In addition, modern British society tries to give everything to everyone. Take education for example. Woodtiger is entirely right about degrees. They used to be something to strive for, that were offered to people who had achieved excellence in their previous results. This did not stop the clever but underpriviledged child, grants were always available and probably of less burden than the current system. But even to go to a polytechnic and do a vocational qualification, you needed to achieve certain standards. Obviously not everyone is clever enough to do a degree, just as not everyone is able to run the 100m in ten flat. Dumbing down the system so that is 'available to all' breeds a conception that all things should be available to all. Before you had to work hard before and during. You were flung out if you could not achieve certain targets. You had to take responsibility for most of your learning, continuous assesment was originally introduced as CSE level to help those with lesser abilities, now it is in place for virtually all exams apparently to take pressure off those who find exams difficult. Surely one should learn at school that to achieve excellence in any field, eventually you will be tested and the education system should prepare them for that?
At school now, virtually all responsibility has been removed from the parents and pupils and instead been dumped on the teachers, who, in return, have had their powers to run their own classrooms diminished by the goverment and the polictically correct.
The British system is breeding anarchists. I would have thought that much was obvious and these riots are a culmination of that system. A generation or two with no jobs, no money, no future and belief that they are entitled to have what everyother person has.
 
Before I came to this country, I learned the language. Not perfectly but in satisfactory fashion. No one has ever had to 'dumb down' or 'make allowances' for me. I expected when i came here that English would be the language of choice, christianity (predominately Cof E) would be the religion, and that those who lived here would abide by the English laws. That I would have to abide by the laws and culture of the country I was visiting. This was how it worked when I lived in the USA and other European countries and certainly how it is in the far east. I have not been able to understand, when English is the language of the internet and therefore the most useful of all languages for a non British person to speak, which is widely recognised outside the UK, that here, it seems to be more important to be 'multicutural' than to have any identity as a nation. I do not understand why foreign nationals can come here and dictate what they will and will not tolerate, this does not happen in other places I have lived.
 
badattitude said:
Before I came to this country, I learned the language. Not perfectly but in satisfactory fashion. No one has ever had to 'dumb down' or 'make allowances' for me. I expected when i came here that English would be the language of choice, christianity (predominately Cof E) would be the religion, and that those who lived here would abide by the English laws. That I would have to abide by the laws and culture of the country I was visiting. This was how it worked when I lived in the USA and other European countries and certainly how it is in the far east. I have not been able to understand, when English is the language of the internet and therefore the most useful of all languages for a non British person to speak, which is widely recognised outside the UK, that here, it seems to be more important to be 'multicutural' than to have any identity as a nation. I do not understand why foreign nationals can come here and dictate what they will and will not tolerate, this does not happen in other places I have lived.
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You do have to abide by the law. What makes you think you don't?
 
badattitude said:
Before I came to this country, I learned the language. Not perfectly but in satisfactory fashion. No one has ever had to 'dumb down' or 'make allowances' for me. I expected when i came here that English would be the language of choice, christianity (predominately Cof E) would be the religion, and that those who lived here would abide by the English laws. That I would have to abide by the laws and culture of the country I was visiting. This was how it worked when I lived in the USA and other European countries and certainly how it is in the far east. I have not been able to understand, when English is the language of the internet and therefore the most useful of all languages for a non British person to speak, which is widely recognised outside the UK, that here, it seems to be more important to be 'multicutural' than to have any identity as a nation. I do not understand why foreign nationals can come here and dictate what they will and will not tolerate, this does not happen in other places I have lived.
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I see where you are coming from, I think. Are there Christian churches in the Middle East? Would I have the right to not wear a headscarf/veil?
And on that note, what about the story of the woman who worked at an airport who was disciplined for wearing a crucifix to work, although Islamic women were allowed to wear their head coverings?
Sometimes I really do feel like an ethnic minority in my own country :(
 
Out of interest, how many people here have personal experience of living in inner cities and on benefits?

I'm not condoning anything that happened last week, just so you know before I go on. However the one thing that has scared me the most is the reactionary response from the 'non-rioting' population. By this I do not mean that perpetrators should not be punished for their action. But what worries me is to what level people are prepared to fore go human rights and civil liberties in the pursuit of so called justice. You see the thing with Justices is, it has to just.

I found this very interesting, please feel free to read it; http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html
It's another view point.
 
Azbo said:
Out of interest, how many people here have personal experience of living in inner cities and on benefits?

I'm not condoning anything that happened last week, just so you know before I go on. However the one thing that has scared me the most is the reactionary response from the 'non-rioting' population. By this I do not mean that perpetrators should not be punished for their action. But what worries me is to what level people are prepared to fore go human rights and civil liberties in the pursuit of so called justice. You see the thing with Justices is, it has to just.

I found this very interesting, please feel free to read it; http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html
It's another view point.
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Yes its another viewpoint.

However I don't think being poor and feeling dispossessed is a reason to justify what we saw on the streets. Some of the brightest most driven people I worked with in the city came from horrendous backgrounds of deprivation and their home situation drove them on to make bloomin sure they succeeded their way out of it.

I think another reason why people are so quick to judge is that we've just had enough. Absolutely enough of lawless behaviour with no consequences. The bleeding liberal hearts have had their very loud say for years and we've got this as a result.

Also tax payers are being squeezed really hard at the moment and I think there is an increasing resentment about funding free loaders.
 
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