Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits

As I said, I'm not condoning anything.

To be honest I get more annoyed at Corporate tax dodging, false expenses claims and bankers bonuses. Still if you can afford to the beat the system.

I'm also thankful I have a job and that I wasn't made redundant last year.
 
Seafarer said:
You do have to abide by the law. What makes you think you don't?
Click to expand...

Last weeks events perhaps? Anyone defrauding the benefit system. Wife/child and animal abusers of which there appear to be many? Many laws, rules and regulations in this country have been amended or changed to conform with EEC regulation or pressure from minority groups. I do not think this is always a good thing as I do not believe so many people are proud to be British as they once were in the past. I think this is very sad.


With regard to Azbo's link, that is very interesting, thank you.
 
Azbo said:
Out of interest, how many people here have personal experience of living in inner cities and on benefits?

I'm not condoning anything that happened last week, just so you know before I go on. However the one thing that has scared me the most is the reactionary response from the 'non-rioting' population. By this I do not mean that perpetrators should not be punished for their action. But what worries me is to what level people are prepared to fore go human rights and civil liberties in the pursuit of so called justice. You see the thing with Justices is, it has to just.

I found this very interesting, please feel free to read it; http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html
It's another view point.
Click to expand...
Yes the same attitude that has created this mess IE
sodding handwinging head in the clouds left wing, champiagne socilists... bloody independant and the odious guardian and their readers have a lot to answer for...
 
HashRouge said:
This thread got me thinking about benefits in general and has made me wonder why there isn't some sort of "condition" attached to receiving benefits, such as a set number of hours per week spent working at some sort of charity, like daycare centres for the elderly and so on? Surely that would help to solve several problems at once, getting people out of the house and "working", even if they can't find a proper, paying job; and helping to preserve charities and insulate them from the cuts.
Click to expand...

I agree with this^^^^^

But I think if you take benefits away from people what do they live on? Trading drugs, committing more crime?

Make them work for their benefits. They probably wont go to work for a few months but they will soon get fed up.

Bring back YTS, give every school leaver the chance of being accepted on a training course with the incenctive of a small amount of money and a good qualification at the end of it. I remember if we completed a YTS we got £200 at the end of tthe course and loads of people got taken on by employers as they had proved they could get to work everyday. Qualifications are good but if you arent very clever at school you may need to get out and do something your actually interested in.
 
perfect11s said:
Yes the same attitude that has created this mess IE
sodding handwinging head in the clouds left wing, champiagne socilists... bloody independant and the odious guardian and their readers have a lot to answer for...[/QUOTE

*Shudder....Sadly I don't reckon these publications are the first choice for your average disaffected youth.

I think empathy is a word that really doesn't get a good look in with a large proportion of society these days. People are so quick to pass blame and judgment based on what blinkered information they choose to expose themselves to. I see so much self absorbed bitterness and intolerant to others. It saddens me greatly. And if that makes me 'head in the cloud left wing' then so be it. At least by trying to understand others perspectives you are trying to be a better person. Which is something the whole of society could benefit from.

Taking away someones benefit just increase the likely hood of someone trying to make a living outside of society. There have been a couple of suggestions earlier about volunteering. It does happen now but there are not the resources available to really make a difference.

Nationwide there are not a great number of any jobs available. Even less if your an inexperienced young adult. Companies are having to make cuts and the first of these inevitably will be jobs.

I currently live in an inner city area. I have been on benefits in the past, having left home at 18 without finishing college. I had no skills and very little self esteem and no idea what jobs I should be going for at that time. In fact it was an opportunity through the job centre that got me back into college to train that got me off benefits. I know have a good job but not the best job security so who knows what will happen.

I personally think a much better punishment for the rioters is community service. After all how many of public by ways could do with Ragwort pulling up?
Click to expand...
 
Azbo said:
perfect11s said:
Yes the same attitude that has created this mess IE
sodding handwinging head in the clouds left wing, champiagne socilists... bloody independant and the odious guardian and their readers have a lot to answer for...[/QUOTE

*Shudder....Sadly I don't reckon these publications are the first choice for your average disaffected youth.

I think empathy is a word that really doesn't get a good look in with a large proportion of society these days. People are so quick to pass blame and judgment based on what blinkered information they choose to expose themselves to. I see so much self absorbed bitterness and intolerant to others. It saddens me greatly. And if that makes me 'head in the cloud left wing' then so be it. At least by trying to understand others perspectives you are trying to be a better person. Which is something the whole of society could benefit from.

Taking away someones benefit just increase the likely hood of someone trying to make a living outside of society. There have been a couple of suggestions earlier about volunteering. It does happen now but there are not the resources available to really make a difference.

Nationwide there are not a great number of any jobs available. Even less if your an inexperienced young adult. Companies are having to make cuts and the first of these inevitably will be jobs.

I currently live in an inner city area. I have been on benefits in the past, having left home at 18 without finishing college. I had no skills and very little self esteem and no idea what jobs I should be going for at that time. In fact it was an opportunity through the job centre that got me back into college to train that got me off benefits. I know have a good job but not the best job security so who knows what will happen.

I personally think a much better punishment for the rioters is community service. After all how many of public by ways could do with Ragwort pulling up?
Click to expand...
Yes they could pull up ragwort however I would like to see a education system which rewards hard work and self disapline so when they end up at working age they have the right attitude so employers want them instead of getting polish or other imigrants.. because they are as good or better than them , I would like to see benifits cut for the lazy and feckless breeders, maybe put them in a hostel system instead of automaticly finding them a house
the moment they spit out another mouth breather that will end up terroriseing and robbing or breeding yet another useless waste of a skin ... Hey well done you for bettering yourself hope the job lasts...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I really don't see how having a two tier punishment system would work, other than to cause even more problems and alienate people even further.

How can you suggest that more affluent people will (for example) receive a fine and a prison sentence, but poorer people will receive a fine, a prison sentence, lose their benefits and also their council housing?

For a Justice System to work it has to be seen as fair for all, you can't have one set of punishments for some people and another for the rest!
 
"For a Justice System to work it has to be seen as fair for all" GingerCat

Of courses there should be one justice system, but I disagree that it is wrong to take the benefits and houses away from people who misbehave. A definition of benefit is "something good and an advantage", so people on benefits are at an advantage over people who are not. If they misbehave, they should lose those benefits.

"For a Justice System to work it has to be seen as fair for all, you can't have one set of punishments for some people and another for the rest!" BUT there are already one set of rules for some people and another for the rest. For example my husband and I live on a row of terraced houses: we work a stressful sixty-hour week to pay the mortgage on our house, along with the council tax and the other bills. My neighbours, a couple of doors down don't have jobs, but have their rent, council tax etc all paid for; they can afford to smoke, and they have recently returned from two weeks in Turkey, paid for by their benefit money. Their children have the latest clothes, iphones etc. and the house has all the lastest gadgets: my husband and I have made a conscious decision not to have children yet as we simply cannot afford it.

Where is the fairness in that? It seems to me that everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. I think that the Human Rights Act has a lot to answer for: it seems to be a get-out clause absolving people. Maybe it should re re-named the Human Wrongs Act.

It is a great shame that people require an incentive to go to work, but there is currently none. When families receive so much for doing nothing, why should they get off their backsides and get a job? The incentive is to get pregnant and have a couple of kids in order to get a free flat or house. People like me and my husband are the mugs!
 
woodtiger said:
" For example my husband and I live on a row of terraced houses: we work a stressful sixty-hour week to pay the mortgage on our house, along with the council tax and the other bills. My neighbours, a couple of doors down don't have jobs, but have their rent, council tax etc all paid for; they can afford to smoke, and they have recently returned from two weeks in Turkey, paid for by their benefit money. Their children have the latest clothes, iphones etc. and the house has all the lastest gadgets: my husband and I have made a conscious decision not to have children yet as we simply cannot afford it. !
Click to expand...

I would question how they can afford that as you would not be able to do that on benefits alone. Seems to me there something not legal here. That's not about them getting benefits it about them potentially breaking the law. And just because this particular family do doesn't mean everyone else does.

It wasn't that long ago that a large number of politicians were outed for making fraudulent expenses claims with public money. Perhaps they should lose the right to make any claimes at all?

Why are people so quick to give up your human rights? That just seems ridiculous to me. Do you really want to be told what you should or should not think and do? What happens when you dont like this, what do you do then?

And just for the record I've been working for quite a number of years without benefits and support myself wholly financially and without any other support. 18 was quite a few years ago for me now, sadly.
 
woodtiger said:
"For a Justice System to work it has to be seen as fair for all" GingerCat

Of courses there should be one justice system, but I disagree that it is wrong to take the benefits and houses away from people who misbehave. A definition of benefit is "something good and an advantage", so people on benefits are at an advantage over people who are not. If they misbehave, they should lose those benefits.

"For a Justice System to work it has to be seen as fair for all, you can't have one set of punishments for some people and another for the rest!" BUT there are already one set of rules for some people and another for the rest. For example my husband and I live on a row of terraced houses: we work a stressful sixty-hour week to pay the mortgage on our house, along with the council tax and the other bills. My neighbours, a couple of doors down don't have jobs, but have their rent, council tax etc all paid for; they can afford to smoke, and they have recently returned from two weeks in Turkey, paid for by their benefit money. Their children have the latest clothes, iphones etc. and the house has all the lastest gadgets: my husband and I have made a conscious decision not to have children yet as we simply cannot afford it.

Where is the fairness in that? It seems to me that everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. I think that the Human Rights Act has a lot to answer for: it seems to be a get-out clause absolving people. Maybe it should re re-named the Human Wrongs Act.

It is a great shame that people require an incentive to go to work, but there is currently none. When families receive so much for doing nothing, why should they get off their backsides and get a job? The incentive is to get pregnant and have a couple of kids in order to get a free flat or house. People like me and my husband are the mugs!
Click to expand...
Great post very well put and my guess the view of most decent hard working folk ..
I think good will come out of the riots ie people want the laws inforced and to be able to live without threat from the lawless and antisocial scum that have been given rights and no responsabiltys and indulged by the left who live in ivory towers and dont have to live with
the results of there damaging and stupid policys... Hopefully the conservitives will be able to change things for the better and wont allow the librals derail anything sensible...



g
 
Yep, I have met families who do very well out of the benefit system, if they juggle it right, and if they have a few cash jobs on the side, I don't think they are allowed holidays in Turkey, as they are not available for work!
It is a horrible way to live, lying in bed all morning, and I don't understand how they can live like that, while others who can't find work are depressed and so on.
It seems some councils must have special "clauses" to stop criminals living in council housing, as I can't see a law specially for "rioters" working.
Lets hope the riots have stopped, and now kids are back at school, they are kept under control.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top