Convincing an anti to let me take her pony hunting?

[Aragon56]

I don't normally post in here-but I need some persuasive advice! I want to take my sister's pony hunting next month with the atherstone on newcomers day, as she'd really enjoy it. I would take my own horse but she unfortunately has a tendon injury and is a light hack only.

My sister is anti, and thinks its cruel. She doesn't really know any arguments for or against hunting, and I have tried having a grown up rational conversation about it, explaining that its far kinder than shooting or trapping foxes. My sister is quite immature and not worldy wise at all, and it didn't seem to occur to her that shooting them doesn't ensure a clean kill, she also said that surely it would be better for old foxes to die naturally.
I've also said that generally its only the old and sick that are targetted-not sure how true this is, but when I followed the hunt on foot last weekend we saw 2 perfectly healthy foxes running away a good distance from the hounds.

She knows it would mean a lot to me if she let me take Ruby hunting, and its a one off occasion- I can't afford to hire a hireling and I don't know any other horse I could take. I want to take something relatively sane too and thats just what Ruby is. Plus the fact that she's from ireland and has probably hunted countless times already-I've pointed this out to my sister already. Am I being unreasonable in asking her to drop her beliefs for one day only?! Especially as she knows full well that my horse is broken, and I've been really down about it recently, this would be a really nice thing for her to do.

I've also pointed out to her that she's happy to eat battery farmed chicken, yet thinks that fox hunting is cruel, is utterly hypocritical. She said that she doesn't do the food shopping (she still lives at home) so therefore doesn't control what kind of chicken our mum buys. She already doesn't eat pork (because she likes pigs)-her reasoning is totally barmy!!

Is there anything else I can say to win her over? I'm really desperate to go and this is my only chance of having a pony to take.

 

[RunToEarth]

I would simply tell her that hunting in England is drag only, she shouldn't have any argument with that, unless hunting dusters is deemed cruel.

 

[PickledOnions]

Agree with rosie!

 

[Aragon56]

The atherstone use an eagle owl... so I thought that the owl does the actual killing? I may be wrong though-please correct me if I am!

 

[RunToEarth]

Well yes, a bird is often used as a back up for a hunt, but your sister doesn't need to know that. Just tell her they lay a trail, hounds follow scent, horses get excercised and all is happy

 

[Aragon56]

Good idea! thanks.

 

[ucmeicu]

how about respecting her views even if you dont agree with them rather than feed her rubbish to get your own way? Misleading your sister so you can go hunting on HER pony .. yeah sounds lovely. Lovely morals.

 

[magicgirl]

I fully support hunting and love it but I think you should respect your sister's views and certainly not lie to her. Your days hunting will only be a few hours but your relationship with your sister should last a lot longer.

 

[muffinino]

how about respecting her views even if you dont agree with them rather than feed her rubbish to get your own way? Misleading your sister so you can go hunting on HER pony .. yeah sounds lovely. Lovely morals.

Even if that view comes out of ignorance? Rosiie's point about the hunt being a drag hunt, as all now are, is a valid one. Why is it misleading to explain the situation, correct her sister's misunderstanding, and take the pony for an enjoyable day out?

 

[Aragon56]

I find it hard to respect her views when the only reason she can think up is that its cruel, and the fact that she is happy to ignore other aspects of animal cruelty like battery farmed chicken-its totally hypocritical.

I don't really care what you think about my morals-at the end of the day I'm not asking much am I, to take her pony hunting for a few hours? Its not going to harm the pony, it won't make any difference to her whatsoever-I'm not asking her to go out and kill foxes herself.

 

[ucmeicu]

her views are simply that .... her views. If she does not want to be associated with hunting or the hunting process in general whether it be drag or live hunting she has the right to make that choice. Her pony her decision. I personally hope she sticks to her guns and isnt bullied or misled just so you can have a good day out . You have asked her and she has said no ... that should be end of. Whether she is a hypocrite or not, she still has the final word.

 

[Aragon56]

Fair enough, I haven't told her about it being drag hunting yet. But if all hunts are now drag hunts, then I don't see why she would have a problem with that?

At the moment it seems to be sheer stubbornness, when she knows how happy it would make me to be able to take Ruby. I let her use my horse whenever she was wanted a few years ago when she was having a confidence crisis, and now I'd like her to return the favour. I don't think she has done enough research or knows enough about it to be able to make an informed opinion, so she just blindly thinks its cruel without looking at the facts first.

 

[ucmeicu]

sisters lol i used to fight with mine for years when we were younger, maybe she is just being a cow who knows. If shes made her mind up I doubt explaining more will help your cause, not having a go at you, whether agree with hunting or not, was just where people were saying mislead her which bugged me.

 

[muffinino]

her views are simply that .... her views. If she does not want to be associated with hunting or the hunting process in general whether it be drag or live hunting she has the right to make that choice. Her pony her decision. I personally hope she sticks to her guns and isnt bullied or misled just so you can have a good day out . You have asked her and she has said no ... that should be end of. Whether she is a hypocrite or not, she still has the final word.

Yes it is her right but surely the OP also has the right to present the correct facts, then let her sister make an informed decision?

 

[ucmeicu]

if you read back you would see its about being honest and at the end of the day it is still her sisters decision.

 

[camilla4]

Yes it is her right but surely the OP also has the right to present the correct facts, then let her sister make an informed decision?

Yes, it absolutely is OP's right to present the correct facts, but it doesn't sound as though she has!

OP - have you actually checked the facts on current hunting and presented them to your sister? If you do this, perhaps she will feel differently; if not, then I agree that it is her choice and you should respect that. (For the record, I am passionately pro-hunting so not trying to encourage you to give up trying!)

 

[CrazyMare]

OK, I hunt, my Dad shoots game, my sister will not condone either. Nothing anyone can do or say will change her thoughts on it, whatever her reasoning may be. Shes 18 and generally leaves the dining table in a flounce if the subject is brought up.

I doubt you will change her opinons for the newcomers day, but you might have planted seeds in her mind to do some more research to uncover more facts for herself, and you might find in future years she will be more willing. Now I suspect she probably won't let you as a matter of principle - shes said no, and shes sticking to it.

 

[LouBerry]

I'd present your facts to her but to be honest if it was me i'd then just respect her wishes and leave her be. If she doesn't want the pony to go, she doesn't want it to go. Her choice as owner. No point having any bad blood between you over one day out. Not worth it. So you don't get to go, it's not the end of the world. You're only young, there'll be other oppurtunities i'm sure and if you don't annoy her she might well change her mind in future.

 

[Aragon56]

Can you recommend a good, neutral site that will provide me with some good facts on hunting, or should I have a hunt around here?

I have presented her with what I know (and I've tried to be unbiased), and encouraged her to do some research, although I suspect she can't be bothered to do so. I have just said that foxes are top of the food chain, they need controlling in some way, and surely this is the kindest and most effective way of controlling them. I've also pointed out that foxes are not stupid, and the young and fit will generally get away. the fact that she thinks that wild animals would be better off dying naturally says it all really, she is quite naive in her views.

My sister and I do not have the best relationship to be honest, and the one thing we have in common is horses. I appreciate what people are trying to say about not letting it ruin our relationship, but its not on the best grounds to start with either. I also doubt I would have an opportunity for many many years to be able to hunt, as I can't afford a 2nd horse, so I saw this as my only chance really-thats why I'm so desperate to go. I went cubbing years ago on mine and really want to get back into it.

The latest objection from her is that she's worried that her pony will be injured on the hunt. I think she's seen how my horse has got knackered tendons, and used to do a lot of hunting, and she's put 2 and 2 together. It just seems like an excuse to me, as she doesn't exactly take the greatest care of Ruby's legs at the moment (she's never booted, not even for travelling), and also with tendon injuries-they can happen absolutely anywhere. I've said that the risk is no greater than me taking her on a fast hack, plus as its still autumn hunting, there would be a lot of standing around. All the same, if anyone has any good evidence about injuries on the hunting field that I can use to counter her argument then that would be appreciated.

 

[LauraWheeler]

RE horses being hurt while hunting. My pony lucy is nearly 20 years old she hunts atleast once a week if not twice a week. She has done this for many seasons she has never hurt herself and still keeps up with the best of them all day. :grin: I'm not saying injuries don't happen out hunting but they can happen anywhere a hunter i used to look after hunted all season without injurie then in the summer she put her leg down a rabbit hole in her field and broke her leg. You never know whats going to happen.

 

[JenHunt]

Ditto laurawheeler about horses getting hurt.... sure it happens, but most of the injuries IME are down to one of 2 things.... over tired horses and riders or freak accidents.

My lad has hunted all his life, in Ireland and over here and to date his worst injury was an overreach injury caused by someone else's horse having a dickyfit about a hedge and reversing into my horse's front leg, pulling off the shoe and part of his heel. He was sound, and hacked home, never went lame and was back hunting 3 wks later!

I've seen a few random cuts, scrapes and bruises, but not much else to be fair in 20 years of hunting. I would suggest that the serious injuries are few and far between. Those who hunt care too much for their horses to risk them!

 

[Aragon56]

RE horses being hurt while hunting. My pony lucy is nearly 20 years old she hunts atleast once a week if not twice a week. She has done this for many seasons she has never hurt herself and still keeps up with the best of them all day. :grin: I'm not saying injuries don't happen out hunting but they can happen anywhere a hunter i used to look after hunted all season without injurie then in the summer she put her leg down a rabbit hole in her field and broke her leg. You never know whats going to happen.

This is my reasoning too. My horse tore her right tendon landing funny on a x country course, but there would have been a build up to it, its like a rope gradually fraying, or so the vet told me. It could have happened in the field, its that type of injury. I just think she is being picky and trying to come up with excuses.

 

[humph]

I don't want to get involved in whether you should or should not persuade your sister because sibling relationships are destined for fights and i wouldn't want to be the catalyst in one!

With regards unbiased websites for research into hunting, I'm sure there used to be one about "vets for hunting" which discussed the kindness to the fox in natural selection which hunting is (and shooting most definitely isn't) and also would warn about the risk to the fox population as a whole (as opposed to individual fox if hunting were to cease because the fox will then suffer from all sorts of disease brought on by overpopulation owing to not having any natural predators.

I can't seem to find the website but the MFHA (hardly an unbiased website though) has an article about it here http://www.mfha.org.uk/information/press-releases/uk-vets-oppose-hunting-ban/

On another note, one thing I am VERY firmly anti is battery chickens. A fox which leads a happy and natural life, when hunted by a pack of fox hounds ends its life (if old or injured but most probably not if healthy and well) in the same way as any prey animal, ie entirely naturally. A poor chicken never gets the opportunity for that happy natural life living without natural light, space and trodden on by all it's equally pitiful neighbours. How anyone can abide battery chickens but be against fox hunting abhors me.

 

[combat_claire]

http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.o...content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=34

Here is the link you were thinking of Humph

 

[ucmeicu]

re the battery chicken thing, guess you buy organic or free range meat then because unless you do most animals are kept in conditions not much better when they are produced on large scale for meat production.

 

[combat_claire]

Yeah I do actually, I also buy my beef and pork from the local farm shop and eat a lot of game.

 

[Aragon56]

Thank you both for those links, I'll do a bit of reading up and have a proper talk with her this weekend.

I'm also very anti battery chickens, and can't understand why someone would oppose fox hunting but be happy to eat non free range chicken-it just doesn't figure.

 

[DiablosGold]

At the end of the day it's her horse, and if she doesn't want to let you ride it (hunting or otherwise) then that should be fine.

No-one should be pressured into letting someone else ride their horse, even if you are related.

 

[humph]

re the battery chicken thing, guess you buy organic or free range meat then because unless you do most animals are kept in conditions not much better when they are produced on large scale for meat production.

Yes, I insist upon it - if you put in the effort you can find local organic farmers and buy direct from them - best of both worlds because it's cheaper than buying in any supermarket and the farmer takes home more than he would via a supermarket. With regards chickens, we have our own that roam freely around about 3 acres. I also only buy organic mayonnaise, etc or at least check the label to see if the egg is free range.

It is more expensive to do this but I feel so strongly about it that I'd rather not eat it on a frequent basis but have it as a treat and that way it doesn't break the bank.

ps, thanks for finding that link

 

[loopyloop]

Just my take on the matter to all of you that are accusing Tobey of pressurising and misleading her sister.

I don't think she has any intention of pressurising her sister into letting her take Ruby!

I think the issue is her sister has said no on cruetly basis while not fully understanding the ins and outs of hunting. But on the other hand is more than happy to endorse other forms of cruelty?!?

I was very much an anti for years until I actually started looking into it and have a completely different view on the matter now! To the point I am also planning to take my mare out. (even though I now appear to have been disowned by a fair few people!!)

I think all she is trying to achieve is getting more facts so her sister can make an informed decision, if her sister then says no it would be wrong of her to carry on.