Cooking for dogs

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planete

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I am seriously considering cooking for the dogs. The trouble is, I have not got a clue where to look to find recipes for making balanced meals. Do any of you cook for your dogs or know of books, articles or scientific studies that would help me work it all out.

It may turn out to be totally impractical/ hideously expensive or tricky but I would like to at least study the possibility. Massive thanks for any tips!
 
Had terrible trouble trying to get my poodle to eat and he had bouts of D&V. He’s fed raw now which was suggested by my dog trainer. He has nature’s Menu minced chicken and their chicken, fruit and veg nuggets. He’s never looked back and loves his food. For treats he has raw bones and fish skin braids which he also loves. They do better poos on raw as well, dry, smaller and don’t smell much at all. I know some people who just feed chicken and rice and a few veg or steak. I hate cooking and there was no way I was going to cook for my dog as well LOL
 
Thank you. i am going to read through the linked websites. At a glance, there seems to be a heavy emphasis on supplements. A bit more digging should uncover a truly balanced diet with no need for supplements I hope.

I may well feed part of the diet raw, LR, but I would like to avoid all commercial foods, including raw ones if possible as one of my dogs is not impressed by some of the ingredients added to the mince and nuggets.
 
Did you read this post of Aru's in the cardiac myopathy thread?

Aru said:
For raw and home cooker's the main app recommended to check nutritional stats of the diets and see if there are any deficiency issues is BalanceIt last I checked (its been a few months so not sure if that's changed) App was originally created by a vet nutritionist.
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Yes I have been down that road.!My dog had loose bowels when we got him and a thin dull coat. Supermarket tinned food didnt suit him and I dont think dry food is healthy for dogs digestion so we thought home cooking was the thing to do. The problem was how to get enough calcium into the diet as it is the biggest requirement without giving bones.After extensive research and weighing food, boiling pots of poultry,beef etc,I gave up .It was too expensive and wasnt sure he was getting a balanced diet. Too much liver can cause problems for a start.I since found the next best thing 2 yrs ago AATU dog food.Its a top quality tinned food.Its a bit more expensive than the average but I get it from the company themselves and save about 10% each month. I have a small terrier so its only about a tin and a bit a day. My dog is now in perfect health shiny coat normal bowels and so much time saved.
 
Thank you all.

@Mister Ted. I am glad your dog is doing well on Aatu but I have noticed it has peas and chickpeas in the first ingredients named which have now become suspect ingredients so would worry about that.

@ester. This looked very promising at first but to achieve a balanced meal they expect us to buy their expensive supplement. No help in cooking a truly balanced diet without it.

@CMcC. Can you tell me whether the author relies on commercial supplements to balance the meals, please, or is he managing to achieve a healthy diet with kitchen ingredients?
 
don't feed raw- increased bacterial risk, if you feed 'carcasses' increased risk of bone injury.
if you must feed home cooked do as your doing and find a balanced diet
ideally feed a good quality,well researched commercial dry food - generally balanced and less disease risk
(e.g. disease risk- see Cats and TB and raw feeding)
 
planete said:
Thank you all.

@Mister Ted. I am glad your dog is doing well on Aatu but I have noticed it has peas and chickpeas in the first ingredients named which have now become suspect ingredients so would worry about that.

@ester. This looked very promising at first but to achieve a balanced meal they expect us to buy their expensive supplement. No help in cooking a truly balanced diet without it.

@CMcC. Can you tell me whether the author relies on commercial supplements to balance the meals, please, or is he managing to achieve a healthy diet with kitchen ingredients?
Click to expand...
Planete.. the main ingredient in AATU is meat eg.90% Angus Beef.This leaves 10% for other ingredients of which include peas/chickpeas. carrots berries herbs etc. read info. on dogs and peas/legumes and the concern of enlarged heart problems in specific breeds over a number of years.Evidence is not conclusive. I give my dog what I believe is the best available the varieties are good and after much research am happy with this. Nowadays it is difficult to find a dog food without glucosamine for joints .Its routinely added because its supposed to help humans but research found it can cause heart attack.I think high fish based dog diets are unhealthy and if you research how the oil is processed with chemicals and refreshed when it is rancid its not something you would wish to feed your dog. Its a minefield really and no processed dog food is without additives. I hope you find something suitable.
 
I will come clean. At the moment I am feeding Platinum chicken and either Arden Grange or Millies Wolfheart with a helping of Butchers' tripe mix. Dylan who is a fussy feeder has minced chicken instead of Butcher's. They get a weekly helping of chicken wings or duck necks, the occasional egg, pilchard or sardine as well. They all look well and have plenty of energy. So why my question?

I do not understand why humans are supposed to be able to prepare balanced meals with ingredients from ordinary shops but we seem unable to do the same for dogs without adding fancy supplements. I smell a strong whiff of commercial hype behind this supposedly impossible feat.

I have reared a pup on raw meat alone (whole minced carcasses) until he was two, much to my vet's disapproval. He is now eight years old and has never been ill or unsound in any way. I have had a working sheepdog from a pup who ate the local feed merchant's muesli type dog food every day of his working life and again was never ill or unsound. I am however taking the research into the potential harm caused by some of the highest rated commercial foods seriously and would be happier to go back to a more home made way of feeding

There is a good article in the New Scientist this week about the state of research into human nutrition for anybody who can get hold of it. It would appear that much of the research is unfortunately not worth the paper it is written on if you apply strict scientific principles to it. I suspect it is much the same when it comes to dog nutrition. Which leaves me no wiser of course in spite of all the reading I have done.
 
From what I have read the main concern about homemade food is balancing the phosphorous/calcium ratio.The calcium is important for the skeleton and bone growth, not enough can cause problems with bone weaknes and fractures in later life. Red meat on its own is high in phosphorus which can be harmful to the kidneys over time. Calcium can be supplied in ground eggshell bought online and red meat should not be fed exclusively .Poultry and varied meat should be included for the different vitamins and mineral content. Its tricky to get the balance right and I think a high quality dog food is the best option. In my day dogs were fed on basic food and scraps and did well enough on it. I have found dogs need actual real meat to stay healthy.I fed my last dog on Burns dried for years and he seemmed to be fading away in his later years .I looked at the actual meat content and it was only 20% the rest made up of rice.As soon as I put him on a good tinned meat diet he perked up. As I mentioned 90% meat in AATU tins is enough to satisy my dog and keep him in good health.
 
We have decided this year to cook the dogs breakfast and they can have kibble for supper. Breakfast will be game meat, mainly pheasant once the best bits have been taken off, with rice or veg or whatever. Maybe also rusks baked in the oven (we eat good multiseed bread, so good enough for them too). They only start having breakfast once the poults are in, so next month. Before the shoot season they can have venison or if all else fails chicken.
Supper will be MWH.
Now we have four that will hopefully cut the costs and also minimise waste from the pheasants.
Additive wise Tawny has zinc and they all have linseed oil. Lots of eggs, they steal them as well as being given them.
 
I am jealous, Clodagh. No free/cheap game around here or I would certainly be feeding it too. Though Dylan point blank refused a hardly damaged fresh road kill pheasant I skinned and gutted for him once, and that was when he was raw fed. I was livid with him!
 
planete said:
I am jealous, Clodagh. No free/cheap game around here or I would certainly be feeding it too. Though Dylan point blank refused a hardly damaged fresh road kill pheasant I skinned and gutted for him once, and that was when he was raw fed. I was livid with him!
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Wrong time of year but there is an FB group where people give away game. Not everyone likes whole pheasants going for dog food but you can either lie and say they are for you or sometimes people offer breasted out carcasses.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/711887105644433/

I am LOL at the dogs getting venison! Muntjacs have so little meat on their shoulders it is not worth the effort of butchering them nicely but it boils up a treat. :-)
 
Can you work with a veterinary nutritionist to formulate a diet plan? I used to feed raw and had recipes for a veggie/organ meat/ground meat patty that I made in large batches. I could get chicken inexpensively and fed mostly chicken with beef and turkey on occasion. One of the dogs I have now can't do chicken so I switched to kibble with supplementing with raw beef bones, turkey necks and table scraps. The dogs look great and rarely have upset tummies.
 
I resorted to cooking for my dog when he developed hypothyroidism and zinc deficiency when on a soy and corn veterinary diet.

There were so few foods that he didn't react to (lymphocytic/plasmacytic ibd) that I wanted to ensure that he was eating a nutritionally complete diet using the few foods he could eat.

Eventually I came across Raw Fed and Nerdy and, although he couldn't eat raw due to his compromised immune system, I used the free service they provide which gives you the nutrient requirements based on your dog's weight and NRC guidelines https://rawfedandnerdy.com/adult-dogs-nutrient-requirements.

Armed with that information I then joined Cronometer (free) and entered his target values and saved them - it's a bit time consuming but you only need do this once. You can then enter each day's diet and see if you are meeting targets for nutrition and what needs tweaking.

If the food you are feeding is not on the database you can look up the nutritional info on the internet and enter it yourself.

You can't use minces with bone as you should not cook it, it needs to be meat/organs without bone. I added seaweed calcium, I used Animal Essentials and Lunderland.

I did not use the following services but they could be useful if you are short on time.

Charley, The Raw Vet, offers a service where she will analyse what you are feeding "Check My Diet".

Savannah, Raw Fed and Nerdy, will formulate a diet for your dog.

Cat Lane, The Possible Canine, a canine nutritionist - you will find her on face book, will also formulate a diet based on your dog's requirements.

I hope something in this information might be useful to you, Planete.

ETA. Linda Case's book, Canine and Feline Nutrition, seems to be well recommended but I thought it might be over my head.
 
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skinnydipper said:
I resorted to cooking for my dog when he developed hypothyroidism and zinc deficiency when on a soy and corn veterinary diet.

There were so few foods that he didn't react to (lymphocytic/plasmacytic ibd) that I wanted to ensure that he was eating a nutritionally complete diet using the few foods he could eat.

Eventually I came across Raw Fed and Nerdy and, although he couldn't eat raw due to his compromised immune system, I used the free service they provide which gives you the nutrient requirements based on your dog's weight and NRC guidelines https://rawfedandnerdy.com/adult-dogs-nutrient-requirements.

Armed with that information I then joined Cronometer (free) and entered his target values and saved them - it's a bit time consuming but you only need do this once. You can then enter each day's diet and see if you are meeting targets for nutrition and what needs tweaking.

If the food you are feeding is not on the database you can look up the nutritional info on the internet and enter it yourself.

You can't use minces with bone as you should not cook it, it needs to be meat/organs without bone. I added seaweed calcium, I used Animal Essentials and Lunderland.

I did not use the following services but they could be useful if you are short on time.

Charley, The Raw Vet, offers a service where she will analyse what you are feeding "Check My Diet".

Savannah, Raw Fed and Nerdy, will formulate a diet for your dog.

Cat Lane, The Possible Canine, a canine nutritionist - you will find her on face book, will also formulate a diet based on your dog's requirements.

I hope something in this information might be useful to you, Planete.

ETA. Linda Case's book, Canine and Feline Nutrition, seems to be well recommended but I thought it might be over my head.
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Wow! What a wealth of information. Many thanks for this and for taking the time to write it all. I guess I am going to be busy for a bit. :)
 
Mister Ted said:
From what I have read the main concern about homemade food is balancing the phosphorous/calcium ratio.The calcium is important for the skeleton and bone growth, not enough can cause problems with bone weaknes and fractures in later life. Red meat on its own is high in phosphorus which can be harmful to the kidneys over time. Calcium can be supplied in ground eggshell bought online and red meat should not be fed exclusively .Poultry and varied meat should be included for the different vitamins and mineral content. Its tricky to get the balance right and I think a high quality dog food is the best option. In my day dogs were fed on basic food and scraps and did well enough on it. I have found dogs need actual real meat to stay healthy.I fed my last dog on Burns dried for years and he seemmed to be fading away in his later years .I looked at the actual meat content and it was only 20% the rest made up of rice.As soon as I put him on a good tinned meat diet he perked up. As I mentioned 90% meat in AATU tins is enough to satisy my dog and keep him in good health.
Click to expand...

Surely the same concerns must apply to human nutrition and growth? Yet no housewife is expected to have a degree in nutrition to rear her children and we usually trust a varied diet to supply our nutritional needs. We should be able to do the same for dogs providing we feed a species appropriate diet. We seem to think we are unable to keep our dogs healthy without resorting to a minutely detailed scientific analysis of their diet and expensive supplements whereas we bred dogs and worked them hard for generations with just what we could source from the environment. I am probably going to feed raw meat and bones and offal, some fish and eggs, and some carbs to the dogs who do well on them, plus some vegetable matter for fibre and trace elements, making sure I use at least five different meat sources to ensure as broad a spectrum of nutrients as possible.

I came across this 1941 paper on dog nutrition last night. Interesting to read the research and opinions of an era before we were swamped with commercial dog foods. Not that I subscribe uncritically to all the conclusions of the author but 'food' for reflexion:

The Diet of the Dog
 
In my simplistic opinion people overthink and over complicate feeding dogs.

My dogs have always looked fantastic on whatever I’ve fed them.... raw (MVM), Skinners Duck & Rice and now Arden Grange Chicken_&_whatever it is

I wouldn’t dream (personally, it is every owners absolute choice) of cooking my dogs a specific food - they would have raw if anything, to the accepted ratio of 80:10:10

My dogs have never suffered any health defects as a result of the diet I have fed, they’ve all died of health complications arising from old age
 
I am aware cooking for the dogs sounds a bit bonkers when we are swimming in an overabundance of ready made stufff and I would never have dreamt of it when i was a busy full time working mother. For me this is by way of an experiment, following my thinking to its (to me) logical conclusion. It may not last, it may turn out too expensive, it may not even suit the dogs but I am finding the challenge intriguing and the dogs' faces when presented with their platefuls of food last night was downright comical. They looked positively awe-struck!
 
Mine get scrambled eggs for breakfast. Sometimes I cook up a batch of sprats for them - just chuck the whole lot in the frying pan and heat through until the eyeballs are no longer recognisable as such, then mash up and allow to cool off a bit before serving.
 
My friend in the states used to fry frozen burger patties every morning for her farm dogs.
To take it to its logical conclusion, canids naturally gorge themselves in one sitting (on a carcass for example) to sustain themselves over 'dry' periods when they wouldn't have access to food. Some people still do fast their dogs once a week to replicate this.
 
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