COPD - don’t know what to do next

[MrRoo]

Hi, I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle with my 22yo geldings COPD and I really don’t know what to do next.
he was scoped 3 weeks ago and they found a heavy growth of actinobacillus from his tracheal wash. He went on a 5 day course of antibiotics plus ventipulmin. The lab report also mentions fungal spores in his trachea. He’s been on nebulised steroids for weeks and I was really hoping the antibiotics would sort the issue. Tonight he was 28 breaths per minute and coughing again. I feel really stuck for what to do if it’s not getting better with steroids, ventipulmin and antibiotics.
He is out for around 10 hours a day and is stabled overnight in a massive airy stable with a double door, window and opening at the back. He’s on haylage only and has a small shavings bed. I don’t know what else to do for him. Any ideas or advice?

 

[PurBee]

There’s a member here called @Shysmum who has/had a horse with breathing issues and solved the worst of it with essential oils.

Here’s her post recipe and thread:


Shysmum said:
He has a client's horse that is as bad as Shy was. I'm gobsmacked, but I hope my aromatherapy recipe works! This is it if it is of interest, with a FULL DISCLAIMER ;

200ml vegetable oil
40 drops eucalyptus essential oil (Mystic Moments from Amazon)
25/30 drops garlic essential oil (ditto)

I hope this may help someone. Ventipulmin did nothing ?
IT 2 LITRES OF VEG OIL !!!!!!


https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/the-vet-asked-for-my-copd-recipe.819288/#post-14937862


I know of Vitamin E is great for bronchial issues. It opens up the branches in the lungs. Its an antioxidsnt and essential for good immune function. Pure tocopherol oil is preferred - you can get a mixed blend of tocopherols for humans, but not sure if there’s an equine mixed tocopherol supplement.

I’d certainly try a good dose of vit E with any horse with breathing issues. The fungal infection could be aided by vit E in clearing, as the vit E is required for healthy immune system function.

 

[ycbm]

I'd be looking to support his immune system if you can, with infections by multiple organisms it sounds as if it's weak. Has he been tested for Cushings? If not, it would be worth testing him if you haven't.
.

 

[Highmileagecob]

The hot weather is a root cause too. My 27yo is struggling at the moment - steroid therapy, inhaled Ventolin, with very little response.
He has mild heaves, nostrils wide open, very little lung sounds on his left side. I am using Shysmum's recipe alongside his prescription stuff but he isn't responding. Despair.

 

[AmyMay]

For starters can you remove all bedding from his stable? Or even better 24/7 turnout?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I've got one recently diagnosed with Equine Asthma.

Following this thread.

 

[Red-1]

Mine has it, just August and September time.

I think antihistamines help, he is on 15 morning and 15 night.

I tried Shysmum's recipe, to no gain.

Ventipulmin does help but it is not for long term use.

The vet is coming today to assess for inhaled steroids.

The thing that seems to have helped the most is Vaseline up his nostrils several times a day and a fly mask with long net over his nose.

 

[MrRoo]

Thank you all so much for your replies. To answer the questions

No chance of 24 hour turnout at all. That would be a very last resort as there are not really any places near me that offer it. I’m looking into paper bedding but can’t find any suppliers, anyone know a feed shop in Surrey that sells it?

The vet is out again tomorrow so I will talk to her about testing for cushings.

the hot weather is definitely not helping. We’ve had no rain for weeks and weeks, it’s so dry and dusty. There are a few horses on the yard developing coughs, the ground is so parched we are having to hay the fields already.

thanks for the recipe! Anything’s worth a try and I’ve ordered the oils on Amazon to arrive tomorrow!

I’ll also get something to give his immune system a boost tomorrow after the vets been

 

[Highmileagecob]

Please see the correction to add essential oils to two litres of carrier oil not 200mls. Let us know how you get on. I strongly suspect a Cushings link, but all tests keep coming back mid range normal. No other symptoms showing, no laminitis, always moults out, no abnormal body shape.
Antihistamines appear to damp down the spring cough, but do nothing for this time of year. I have single handedly weeded our eleven acres of every scrap of ragwort and removed the balsam from the field edges. All his breathing issues seem to be located in the head sinuses and nasal passages - I've even tried Vicks vapour rub, but all that does is keep flies away. My vet doesn't offer Ventipulmin on the basis that it is preventative

 

[Highmileagecob]

Sorry my last post posted itself before I had finished!
My vet doesn't offer Ventipulmin on the basis that it is a preventative, and no use once symptoms have become apparent. Have to say, it has never worked for my lad.

 

[TPO]

I've got one with mild asthma but it's ma aged with a low dose of ventipulmin along with management like out as much as possible, damp hay, dust extracted bedding etc

Might be worth calling Trinity Consultants for advice on an immune booster. Some people absolutely swear by their products. I've only used one of their products once and it was a sort of misdiagnosis by vets so horse didn't have X wrong so didn't need X supplement from TC so I can't say if it made any difference or not.

 

[MrRoo]

Thanks, will pop out later and get 2l of veg oil.
cushings has been in the back of my mind but until this all kicked off a couple of months ago he was looking absolutely amazing. Perfect weight, no coat issues, fit and keen. He still looks good but now lost a lot of muscle as he hasn’t been worked properly in weeks.
Thanks for the Trinity Consultants recommendation, I’ll give them a ring

 

[NinjaPony]

Unfortunately I have too much experience of this, it’s a horrible condition to manage.

Make sure his bed is mucked out and pulled back down at least two hours before he comes back in to let the dust settle. Use cardboard, paper or at a push Bedmax shavings (the big ones)
Make sure stable is far away from any hay storage
Dampen the bed with some water when he comes in
Nose net on when he’s ridden/in the field to protect from dust
Try an ‘equihaler’: advanced form of horse specific inhaler, gave my boy some temporary relief and my vets have seen some really good results with it
Vitamin E: gave my boy a real energy boost over the summer before he went downhill.

My story doesn’t end happily, I had his lungs scanned to try and work out why he wasn’t responded to anything and it turned out that he had scarring on the inside of his lungs and reduced lung functions. I managed to give him a peaceful summer using the suggestions above but he went downhill again and the steroid course didn’t touch the sides so I had to call it a day. I really hope you get some answers from the vets; I also had mine tested for Cushings, and allergy tested as it turns out he was allergic to a lot of specific things. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Totally agree with everything above, and unfortunately, I think we are on borrowed time too.

 

[MrRoo]

Unfortunately I have too much experience of this, it’s a horrible condition to manage.

Make sure his bed is mucked out and pulled back down at least two hours before he comes back in to let the dust settle. Use cardboard, paper or at a push Bedmax shavings (the big ones)
Make sure stable is far away from any hay storage
Dampen the bed with some water when he comes in
Nose net on when he’s ridden/in the field to protect from dust
Try an ‘equihaler’: advanced form of horse specific inhaler, gave my boy some temporary relief and my vets have seen some really good results with it
Vitamin E: gave my boy a real energy boost over the summer before he went downhill.

My story doesn’t end happily, I had his lungs scanned to try and work out why he wasn’t responded to anything and it turned out that he had scarring on the inside of his lungs and reduced lung functions. I managed to give him a peaceful summer using the suggestions above but he went downhill again and the steroid course didn’t touch the sides so I had to call it a day. I really hope you get some answers from the vets; I also had mine tested for Cushings, and allergy tested as it turns out he was allergic to a lot of specific things. Let us know how you get on.

Thank you for your reply and I’m so sorry that was the outcome for your boy.
When they scanned his lungs what did they use? Mine had an ultrasound scan before his scope and it didn’t throw up anything obvious. I’m so scared I’m going to lose him, he’s my absolute world

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This year has been rough. So dry and dusty. Mine manages fine with his Flexineb (either steroid or Ectoin), an airway supplement (from Equine America), and wet hay. His diet isn't anything special but does have added vit E, zink, and copper which can all benefit his immune system. I try to keep him as fit as possible. He's out in the field all night and on hardstanding attached to his stable during the day.

Once the lungs have scars, there's not much you can do, unfortunately. If there aren't any or not much, then there's still some hope with careful and strict management.

There was once or twice when I had to nebulize a steroid and a brochodilator, plus an oral supplement. That always knocked out a flare up. Fortunately, he hasn't had anything that bad in a long time.

 

[NinjaPony]

Thank you for your reply and I’m so sorry that was the outcome for your boy.
When they scanned his lungs what did they use? Mine had an ultrasound scan before his scope and it didn’t throw up anything obvious. I’m so scared I’m going to lose him, he’s my absolute world

Thank you, he was the best thing that ever happened to me and it was devastating to lose him like that. As CC says, once the lungs are damaged there isn’t much you can do about it.

He had x-rays just in case there was a tumour or a blockage, and ultrasound scans of his lungs. If you’ve had the lungs scanned and they look healthy and normal then that’s a positive sign.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, particularly with the nebulisers. This hot weather won’t be helping either, it’s hard work when your lungs aren’t working as well as they should be. I did find that the vitamin E gave my boy more energy over the summer before he went downhill, I tried it out of desperation and was surprised when it actually had an effect on him, at least short term anyway.

 

[MrRoo]

This year has been rough. So dry and dusty. Mine manages fine with his Flexineb (either steroid or Ectoin), an airway supplement (from Equine America), and wet hay. His diet isn't anything special but does have added vit E, zink, and copper which can all benefit his immune system. I try to keep him as fit as possible. He's out in the field all night and on hardstanding attached to his stable during the day.

Once the lungs have scars, there's not much you can do, unfortunately. If there aren't any or not much, then there's still some hope with careful and strict management.

There was once or twice when I had to nebulize a steroid and a brochodilator, plus an oral supplement. That always knocked out a flare up. Fortunately, he hasn't had anything that bad in a long time.

Thank you for your reply. Could you just confirm what the Ectoin is that you use please? I can’t find anything. I’ve hammered the internet hard buying stuff that people have suggested so one more purchase won’t hurt!!
I’ve got the vet coming back out tomorrow, he was pretty bad this evening so I’ve just been sat in a field with him making the most of the cooler evening

 

[dorsetladette]

MY old COPD stallion wouldn't come good on the routine yours is currently on. We ended up turning him out 24/7 and putting him on garlic and fenagreek leaves (not seeds). He wasnt ever stabled again. He lived to the grand old age of 24 and was winning at County level the year before he was pts. He was pts due to an unrelated incident in the field. The vet thought he was only 10yrs old when she came to him on his last day. There are good out comes, but it may mean moving yards and completely changing your management to start to see improvement. Good luck

 

[paddi22]

I'm another who struggled for years with as much turnout as possible/dust free bedding/soaking hay etc. Ended up doing 24/7 turnout and horse was like a different horse. I don't think he was able to cope with being inside at all. I even notice now if he's in the Horsebox for more than half an hour you can hear his breathing start to struggle a bit. 24/7 out is the only thing that helped him

 

[Highmileagecob]

I have been scouring the internet for any further research into COPD/asthma in horses with no new leads. One thing that has struck a note is that horses are only able to breathe through the nose. There is no connection to the mouth, as in humans, and no ability to mouth breathe. So how do they cough? And is the cough likely to be a response to throat irritation?

 

[Gloi]

The pony tat was my oldie's field companion had COPD and couldn't be inside at all even with just rubber matting. He did live a long life out all year with winter feed being strip grazed foggage.

 

[Goldenstar]

Totally agree with everything above, and unfortunately, I think we are on borrowed time too.

I am sorry for you but I think really you should be planning to say good bye .
I agree with Ycbm that something has suppressed his immune response and that’s giving you this flare up .
It might be worth trying a echinacea supplement but really at this stage you are throwing everything at it and have left no stone unturned trying to manage him .
The extremes of weather makes it very hard to manage horses like this .

 

[MrRoo]

Just wanted to update…I bought some supplements to give his immune system a boost and a hay steamer. He absolutely loves his steamed haylage and has stopped trashing it round his stable. His breathing became normal again-I don’t know if this is the things I did or the weather finally easing off but I’m taking it as a win. I still have the absolute fear he’ll flare up again but at least for now he’s ok.

 

[Red-1]

Just wanted to update…I bought some supplements to give his immune system a boost and a hay steamer. He absolutely loves his steamed haylage and has stopped trashing it round his stable. His breathing became normal again-I don’t know if this is the things I did or the weather finally easing off but I’m taking it as a win. I still have the absolute fear he’ll flare up again but at least for now he’s ok.

With Rigs it is an annual flare up. By the end of September it will (hopefully) be over until almost the beginning of August next year. In winter and beyond, he is simply a normal horse. No trace of coughing or wheezing even if he finishes the dry hay scrag ends from the other horse.

Hopefully you too will be clear until next year.

Which supplement did you try? Was it echinacea?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Just wanted to update…I bought some supplements to give his immune system a boost and a hay steamer. He absolutely loves his steamed haylage and has stopped trashing it round his stable. His breathing became normal again-I don’t know if this is the things I did or the weather finally easing off but I’m taking it as a win. I still have the absolute fear he’ll flare up again but at least for now he’s ok.

Hay steamers can help immensely. A fellow livery has one and if her horses gets streamed hay, you don't even know she has any breathing issues. Soaked hay or haylage didn't cut it, has to be steamed.

 

[Highmileagecob]

The old cob is staring to improve now the weather has turned. I can link this episode to the grass cutting around us towards the end of July. Coupled with the hot weather of July and August, he struggled to cope, poor lad. For him, hot weather seems to magnify any of his triggers. Hope everyone else is seeing an improvement.