COPD/RAO

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Paula18

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My horse got diagnosed with this after being on box rest from lammi. He was on ventipulmin and i now steam his hay for an hour at a time. I de-cob webbed his stable and the adjoining ones on each side, and keep him out of his stable when mucking out at the advice of the vet. He got better after 3 days then after 2 horses left the yard and their straw beds were cleaned out he got worse. He then improved, saw the vet again who said that his chest was clear, breathing fine and she advised to decrease the ventipulmin over the course of another week and then come off it. I did this and he has been absolutely fine for 3 weeks. He started coughing a couple of days ago and has started wheezing again tonight. I've put him back on the ventipulmin but i cant work out what might have set him off again. As he's only recently been diagnosed with it i'm not very 'up' on this condition and still trying to get to grips with it. The only thing i can think of is that the pony next door now has shavings mixed into her bedding which are put down every day. This is a new thing and i wondered whether this may have set him off?
Does anyone have any experience of this that they could share, do you keep your horse permanently on ventipulmin and can you advise on anything else that may have caused the reaction? I know its an ongoing condition just cant work out whats set him off!
Thankyou
 
Ammonia from the straw beds could have caused the first relapse. Shavings are still dusty so the beds that are being topped up each day will be generating a dusty atmosphere. I can recommend Airways Plus suppliment from Global herbs although you may need to determine what is causing the problem (dust /pollen) first as there are different suppliments depending on the cause.
 
Laser hun, I've just been going through something similar with Sunny. About 3 years ago he developed a summer cough which the vets and I thought was probably a pollen allergy. Where he was at livery before was at a much higher altitude (Wales!) and he's much lower now with glorious hedgerows in blossom from May through to August. The cough never amounted to anything much. But this August, a virus went round the yard and Sunny got a chesty cough on top of his summer cough. He was in a bad way and - long story short - he was sedated and endoscoped to see what was happening in his chest. You should have seen the thick sticky mucus! Yerk! So he's been on 2 weeks of Noradine (secondary bacterial throat infection from coughing so much), Ventipulmin (relaxes airways) and Sputolosin (breaks up sticky mucus). He's tons better now because he's at last shaken off the infection AND the autumn rains have got rid of the pollen. BUT, we've only treated the symptoms - the underlying problem hasn't been tackled. So I'm waiting for an appointment with the REACT clinic. They see several horses at a time with RAO. They shave a rectangle of hair on the neck and put about 20 or so common allergens into the skin. Whichever allergen causes a response is the culprit. Then they shave another rectangle on the other side and put the allergens (I think Sunny's will be primarily dust and tree pollen) into the skin in a dozen different strengths. They look for the lowest strength that will produce a reaction. From that, they produce a Sunny-Special antihistamine. He's injected with that before the summer starts and it should prevent his body having an allergic response. Your insurers would cover this although you might find all airways problems excluded the following year.

While we were investigating this, the vets did advise on some basic self help which is ned turned out as close to 24/7 for a horse with a dust allergy. Feed hay from floor level (got Sunny a Haybar - brilliant). If you can't have him out 24/7, he needs to be stabled away from the muck heap, hay store, other stables that are dusty etc etc. Ventipulmin only relaxes airways - it doesn't stop the body's allergic response to dust. The danger if you don't take radical steps, is that the horse's lungs get more and more damaged every year. He may end up with a visible heaves line round his belly and eventually may be unable to be ridden because his lungs would be working at such a reduced level. It can get even worse than that. I'd get the vets back and hammer out a plan that gets to the heart of the underlying problem. Ventipulmin won't do it. Many Forum members have had excellent results with human antihistamines so it might be worth looking into that, though don't expect your vets to be 100% behind you on that one! Good luck x
 
Blagdon- thanks for your reply, he's been using the airways plus since being off the ventipulmin to help him along and seemed fine on it however its not enough to combat whatever has caused him to deteriorate.
Box_of_Frogs - thanks also for your reply. I think i will ring my vet on Monday as he has coughed up some colourless mucus - not heaps but noticed the odd bit over the last few days. I may also ask neighbour to stop using the shavings for a few days and see whether that makes a difference (she is very helpful and understanding luckily!). Other than that he is stabled away from muck heap. He is only allowed out 2 hrs a day due to the lammi but i'm allowed to turn him out in the sand paddock when i'm there and when no one is riding which is helpful. I also leave his stable door open with his chain on all day unless the weathers bad just to try and get some more air in. I dont know what more i can do myself but i think i will look into getting a haybar? I prefer to feed off the floor but he went through a phase of hoofing his hay all over the show so i put it back in nets.
Vet did explain that the ventipulmin only helps to open up the airways not to stop the reaction and thats the hardest bit and unlikely that i will find out the cause without professional help! My insurance wont pay out as due to his age (22), only covered for injury not illness - despite the fact that copd is not age related. They wouldnt pay out a few months ago for lammi either so i'm pretty poor at the minute (arent we all lol!) but i think saving up for further exploration will be best for him, like you say to get to the root of the underlying problem.
Thanks again for all advice and info, its much appreciated!
 
Our cob has this, and prior to buying him was on high regular daily doses of Ventopulmin. Since we have owned him , some 8 years now, he has only once shown any problems, and that was when he was stabled in a clean stable for an hour.
As yours has lami, it does make it harder, but if you can keep him out - permanently, you will help him in the best way possible.
 
Agree with donklet, the best thing for him would be permanent turnout. RAO is basically equine asthma, so the only way to give a horse proper relief is to turn it out, away from any dust - supposedly it takes less than 7 days turnout to alleviate the signs of RAO. Is there any way you could use a small paddock and maybe have other horses graze it bare, then turn out your horse on that? My pony has Cushing's and is very prone to laminitis, but is still turned out 24/7, just on an extremely bare paddock.

If 24 hour turnout isn't possible, then it sounds like asking your neighbour to use the same bedding as you would be the best option. Your horse will be exposed to all the dust from any stables which share the same airspace, so it is worth making sure none of the nearby stables use dusty bedding. Also low dust feed should help - pellets are good, but if you soak any food you give that should help.

You could maybe consider using Ventolin rather than ventipulmin as well. Ventolin is a lot more effective, and is given via an inhaler so gets to the lungs a lot better. As Laser says, ventipulmin only opens the airways, but it doesn't help the inflammation that causes this constriction, so it shouldn't be used alone for any period. Horses can also become tolerant to ventipulmin if used over long periods.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want to know anymore, but I am only getting this from my lecture notes on RAO, so I'm sure I won't be able to tell you much that the vet can't!
 
One of the horses I look after was recently diagnosed with copd... we're 90% sure that's what he's got. Since the vet came in Aug he's been out 24/7, only coming in for feed so we know he's getting the ventipulmin. His course of ventipulmin ran out about a month ago and since then his breathing has got worse, so I think he'll be on ventipulmin permanently as it really helped. He is also on NAF Resipirator which has helped as well. Whilst on the ventipulmin and respirator our guy went hunting for a good few hours... so it is manageable.

Best thing is to keep him out 24/7, if you need to bring him in, muck out his stable without him being in- not even tied up outside. Don't put him back into the stable right after being mucked out as the dust will need time to settle. I've been told paper bedding is the best to use, and it's better if the surrounding stables use it too if possible. Feed haylage from the floor, the vet says this helps too as it's a more natural position. Try to make his stable as well ventilated as possible, even if this means him being right next to the door in an american barn... you can always add more rugs to compensate for the cold.
 
My pony suffers from this at this time of year but he lives out 24/7 so it must be some sort of pollen or fungus that comes in autumn.

I know this year with little rain it has been more dusty than usual - the school is very dusty and so are all the hacks which does not help. I do not ride my pony in the school when it is dusty.

I went to a lecture on COPD at the Royal Vets College and they did say that the allergy tests are a waste of money as they often show false negatives and false positives and the test results for horses with allergies and those without often came back the same!

My vets who are the equine practice of RVC will not give my pony an allergy test for the reasons above.

I have found wiping his nose with a wet wipe helps as when I looked up his nose it is full of brown dust. (I did check that cleaning his nose was ok with a vet).

When he gets a flare up he has ventipulmin but I also have him on airway plus (but I have heard good things about respirator and also wingery ventilate so I might try one of those as they are more palatable). Most of the supplements take a while to start working and I think now I know it is a autumn thing I need to start him on the supplements before he has an attack - so next year he will start on his breathing supplement in August as his breathing tends to get bad mid September.

Also I have clipped my pony too as he gets very hot and I imagine overheating is not good for the breathing and vet said it might help if he is getting too hot he does get very furry.

I also have an inhaler for him which the vet gave me on his last visit and said he can have if he has an attack - thankfully have not had to use it yet.

Last year he was on ventipulmin for 6 weeks but this year he has only had it for one week and is now on just airways plus.
 
Thanks everyone. I put him back on ventipulmin last night and he has stopped wheezing today, will keep him on it for a few days and then see how he goes. I know that having him out would be the best option but there is no facility for this at my yard. Its also pretty early days for him to go out too long, he is still only on 2 hours a day as the lammi attack was only in June and was quite severe. YO does allow me to put him the rubber paddock but as i mentioned can only do that when i'm there. I know the best option would be to look for a yard where he can go out however this causes a dilemma as i loan a cob off the YO and would have to leave her behind.....
Vet has said that he cant have the inhaler as it is a steroid and therefore dangerous for laminitics.
I am going to get a haybar as suggested by Box_of_Frogs so hopefully that will help. Guess its just a case of getting used to what may be causing it which will become more apparent and then i can prepare him for an attack and hopefully prevent it.
I think the point about overheating is a good one too, i've just got my rugs back and am clipping next weekend, ,my boy is a really hot horse too and he's been quite sweaty the last week with the weather being up and down.
I was talking to my friend today about what may have set him off last night and she reminded me that when i brought him in we were stood talking outside a straw bedded stable which my boy proceeded to try and get in as he spotted a haynet (stall chain was up so he couldnt get in). Given that it was straw that set him off last time it may have been that that set him off again? I'm sure we'll get to grips with it eventually. Thanks for all your replies and advice.
 
i know its not always easy but if its that bad then i think you have to think about moving asap.

my stallion has copd and was previously kept in wooden stables, i kept them spotless and used the bliss bedding, one type of which is coated in eycalptus, i also gave him an eycalptus lick.

turn out is so important, as is exercise, the fitter they are the better they cope,

worse case... you can get dust extractors for stables, the get mounted high up and really do work, BUT they cost around 500.

i no longer use mine as my lad lives out if you get to that point then pm me, as mines sat around doing nout.
 
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