Coping with an 'autistic' horse

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BBP

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Firstly I'd like to say I don't have any real experience of autism so I apologise to anyone reading this if they do and feel I'm way off the mark using the condition this way.

But I genuinely feel my horse has some form of horsey autism. Every day with him is like brand new day, he sees the world like a foal would. I have had him since he was 3, he has just turned 10. For most of that time at least twice a week and recently 4 times a week he has gone out hacking along the same route. You would think that familiarity would make the route quite dull, and if everything stays the same he is great. But change one tiny little detail and he can't cope. He reminds me of an autistic child who can't cope when the cereal box is the wrong way round, I'm sure he'd scream and rock in a corner if he could.

This morning it was spotting my friends horse out for a ride, he saw him on a headland in the distance and it was like he couldn't compute what he saw. He just went into panic mode, he froze, his legs started shaking and you could see all the muscles in his shoulders and flanks wobbling. His neck goes like iron and nothing diverts him from staring. He snorts through his nose like a dragon. Sit quietly and he just freezes to the spot, try to put any pressure on him and he will rear, run backwards, throw himself in front of cars, ditches, whatever, like there is no other thought in his brain than his fixation.

He is a delightful horse to hack in all other ways, polite, well mannered, forward going, always happy to go on and you can turn and canter up and down the same track towards home and away and he stays polite. He just can't cope with change. Once my friends horse reached us he let out the biggest breath as he worked out what 'the monster' was.

I was in tears with the frustration of it this morning. He is such a wonderful horse but I don't seem to be able to get in his head and work this one out. He has been prone to panic attacks ever since I bought him, even though nothing bad has ever happened to him since I got him.

I'm not quite sure how to keep going like this, he is so unpredictable, for the last 10 weeks after his sacroiliac and PSSM diagnosis he was perfect and I thought I'd cracked it, that sorting the PSSM had miraculously cured what I thought was a reaction triggered by muscle pain. But the last 7 days he is back to his old self, feeling much tenser when out. Not much has changed, he had a little more grass and I'd added vitamin e and magnesium, then behaviour started so I cut out those changes but 4 days after cutting out he is still ridiculous. And yestersay I did his whole 45 min schooling session without a bridle and he was perfect.

I don't want him to be stuck in arena the rest of his life, he loves hacking when all is calm. I don't have a responsible hacking buddy anymore as the good horse is permanently lame.

Suggestions please? I know some I'll probably hate or not agree with as we all do things differently, but I'm happy to listen to everything! I have Physio booked for him for next week, need to get saddler to check saddle fit, teeth are done, vet checked sacroiliac 2 weeks ago, thought he looked amazing, he's just started a few strides of canter and seems happy. I'm even trying to get in touch with an animal communicator as I'm struggling to deal with him through my normal logical routes.
 
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We don't have many off-road hacking routes here, so the only other places he gets to go are road rides super early on a Saturday and Sunday. Because of his unpredictable behaviour he isn't safe to go on many routes here. He's done trec and sponsored rides in company and loves them. He goes to the gallops (or did before his sacroiliac injury). The unpredictability of him is the same wherever you go, he might be foot perfect, and often is, or he might lose it. Things that you think might set him off don't, it's usually tiny stuff you wouldn't think of, a tractor 5 fields away, that sort of thing.
 
What about hacking him in a fly hat or even blinkers so he can't see stuff in the distance as well. It could go either way it could make him worse or it could make him less reactive.

It takes a while for stuff to get out their system so hopefully changing things back might still be the answer. I'd blame the grass over the other changes.
 
KatPT said:
His neck goes like iron and nothing diverts him from staring. He snorts through his nose like a dragon. Sit quietly and he just freezes to the spot, try to put any pressure on him and he will rear, run backwards, throw himself in front of cars, ditches, whatever, like there is no other thought in his brain than his fixation.
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I could have written that word-for-word about my old gelding. He did the exact same thing, and it was like when he was doing it he had no sense of spatial awareness about him.

I think you did a really good thing putting him on the magnesium - I would definitely put him back on that if I were you. The good thing about magnesium is that you can't really have too much of it (to a certain extent), so you don't need to worry too much about exact measurements (you'll know if you've given him too much if his poos start to get a bit runny).

It will take a few months to kick in and start working properly, but it really does help (I take it as well and it has helped me no end!).

I really don't think there is too much you can do to change a horse like this. There are lots of desensitisation techniques you could do (and I think I remember seeing that you do a lot of groundwork with him anyway?), but like you say, things and routes change on a daily basis and you can't really foresee what's going to be there.

The one thing that did help with me was when mine was just frozen on the spot ready to burst, I would turn him around and back him up. It was the only direction I could get him to go in and it seemed to snap him out of things most of the time. Just be careful you don't ask for it too quickly!
 
I would be looking at mineral imbalance too, especially magnesium - it transformed my horse who was much like yours, but it did it in a couple of weeks for him. But I discovered recently that you can have too much magnesium, it creates an imbalance with calcium and presents as almost as bad as too little. Equifeast have done the research, check it out for yourself and talk to them, they are very helpful and agreed with me when I said plan A was too pricey for my limited budget lol. http://www.equifeast.com/English/Equifeast/articles-and-information
I have a sensitive reactive horse and the trick is to try EVERYTHING- check tack fit, feet comfort, diet, the lot - mine has the most expensive taste in saddles lol and I just had to replace his browband as the one we had had for years had begun to pinch
 
My pony sounds a little like yours, but nowhere near as bad. I have been using Clop liquid calmer, linseed oil and valarian. He is a lot better out now, and I am beginning to enjoy taking him out at last. Tractors in the distance no longer fixate him. Still working on noisy motor bikes. But beginning to cope better. He used to scare me with his unpredictability. He still spooks but can come down very quickly instead of winding himself up more and more. It took a little while to take affect but seems to be helping both of us. I had tried magnesium, and other calmers but Clop seems to suit him best.
 
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it's pretty common for horses to react to small changes like this. We have one horse at the yard who has been doing the same hack every morning for probably 15 years and he will react/refuse if there is a new large branch on the side of the path.
The problem rather seems to be how much he reacts and that would suggest to me pain/ulcers (both are generally linked anyway and wasn't surprised when you mentioned the sacroiliac pb). Although it is made for dogs, this apparently also applies to horses and is very interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFGIRPAWcSM
Pain will affect the base level so horse will go over the threshold much more easily.
 
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I had a home bred horse just like this, he would spook going to his field every day but had been here since the day his was born. This "autistic" trait limited his performance, he could jump well with an excellent technique but was too unpredictable and could suddenly freeze. Equally his flatwork was good but competitively he only made it to the Pony Club Championships although he undoubtedly had the talent to do far more.

He was a very stressy individual and windsucked although he scoped clear for ulcers. We eventually lost him to colic at 18, there was a chance of surgery but in my heart I knew he wouldn't cope with the aftercare and in the end a post mortem showed his chance of survival wouldn't have been good.

Sadly despite many supplements, the vet, the saddler, the dentist and several alternative therapies we never found the lasting "key" to him although his flashes of brilliance made us keep trying. Strangely his half sister turned out to be the bravest, boldest (and bolshiest) mare ever!
 
Having had the PSSM diagnosis I've been pretty hot on diet recently! Our magnesium levels in forage are okay, but out of whack ratio wise with calcium, which is very high. He blood tested a little deficient in vitamin e which is why I added that. The extra grass he got was minimal and now taken away and he is still daft but I appreciate its only been a week. My plan will be to add the vit e and magnesium back in after a bit but separately this time. He is on prokalm calmer which is the only one I've ever found to make a difference, magnesium based callers have never touched him. I could perhaps increase that a little as he isn't n the full dose as he had been being so good. He also gets alcar for his PSSM which I have upped a little in case the grass we get is too much sugar and making his muscles sore.

Honestly in the 10 weeks after his diagnosis he had really turned a corner. Not that he never got scared but he didn't let it affect the rest of the ride. I'm looking for a pain response somewhere as to why the change back recently but I do also think a lot is in his head (based on just knowing him so well).

I don't mind a reaction to small changes, it's the level of reaction. He doesn't show any other ulcer symptoms I don't think, chilled on yard, happy when tacked up/girthed up, never grouchy, eats fibre diet, doesn't bolt or leave food, out 24/7.

I had wondered about blinkers (or roller blinds!) funnily enough, to reduce the stimulus, not sure if he'd be better or just plain dangerous in them!
 
I hate to say this and disappoint you, but my horse is like this and has been for the 24 years of his life so far.

He does exactly as you described with the iron neck, shaking etc etc. However I would describe him as more unpredictable and more genuinely scared than yours. I may have interpreted what you've written wrong, but it doesn't sound as if your horse is anxious all the time, only at certain new things. Mine has always been anxious in every situation, but it is aggravated by change. Mine is also very spatially unaware and I'd also describe him as insecure.

For me I've learnt to deal with it: my leg muscles have been attuned to constant spinning, suddens stops and bolts, I'm constantly on the lookout for spooky things etc. I'm sure you could say similar too.

Is he any different with a friend?

I don't have any specific advice and I'm sorry to not bring anything helpful. I just wanted to share my experience and let you know you're not alone!
 
I'd keep the mag up if the calcium is high as it is the Ca:Mg:P ratio that is important.

What do you do with him when he reacts like that? Just sit I presume now? How would he be if you got off and led? Ideally I think you need to stop him getting to that place in the first place - so he can't lock his neck and fixate. It is one of the reasons I mostly keep F in his 3 ring gag for hacking so he can't do that.
 
KatPT said:
Having had the PSSM diagnosis I've been pretty hot on diet recently! Our magnesium levels in forage are okay, but out of whack ratio wise with calcium, which is very high.
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Sounds like you're doing everything you can so far. Important to add, which I forgot in my last post, is that the calcium and magnesium levels should be more-or-less on par with each other.
 
I had a mare similar and used to think she had OCD, if anything was out of place she would freeze, snort, spin, rear, backup, you name it. If other horses were calm though she would follow even though she was afraid. And it was a genuine fear.

She got better over time, as she learnt to trust my judgement (she was a bit bossy!), and the backing up trick worked if the scarey thing was nearby, but the main thing that helped was work, she was worked everyday and I'm talking endurance training not half an hour round the block. A few days off meant if a car was parked differently we would have a fit.

Funnily enough this horse never spooked at the usual things such as flappy bags, trucks, wild animals etc. She was also great on new tracks as she didn't have a reason to be afraid! She was the best horse I ever had apart from this issue and I miss her like crazy.
 
SpringArising said:
Sounds like you're doing everything you can so far. Important to add, which I forgot in my last post, is that the calcium and magnesium levels should be more-or-less on par with each other.
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2:1 as per Dr Kellon at least. On chalk soil ours is 1:2.
 
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I posted a very similar thread only recently. I asked if it was possible for a horse to be mentally unstable. I've just retired my boy. I can't cope with the dramas. And he is actually dangerous.
 
It may be worth looking at some of Beth Valentine's info on PSSM/EPSM, as I seem to recall that she has often noticed that horses going through the transitional stage with their diets can improve, then have a stage where they go backwards before further improvement resumes. Some of her articles can be found on the Rural Heritage site.

Many years ago I had a soft spot for a horse who had a 'ground hog day' every day. It was the bales of shavings that frightened the life out of him. "Oh my God, there's a rectangular, horse eating monster appeared near my stable" YO would introduce horse to the bale of shavings and slice it down in front of him, shake out the shavings in his bed and the horse would look a little embarrassed at his behaviour. But next day it was the same again, and the day after, and so on. It seemed as though he really couldn't remember what had happened the previous day. He was an ex race horse, at the yard for rehab; he was a lovely gentle, calm horse, but he struggled a bit and seemed to have genuine learning difficulties.

But I do think many horses to a greater or lesser extent can be quirky about their regular routes changing. My friend's gentle giant used to go past a mattress in the hedge bottom each day, but had a complete meltdown when the council removed it. And my own quirky first cob used to spook wildly at the big leaves (looked like rhubarb) that appeared each spring in the ditch that we rode past.
 
Cobbytype said:
It may be worth looking at some of Beth Valentine's info on PSSM/EPSM, as I seem to recall that she has often noticed that horses going through the transitional stage with their diets can improve, then have a stage where they go backwards before further improvement resumes. Some of her articles can be found on the Rural Heritage site.

Many years ago I had a soft spot for a horse who had a 'ground hog day' every day. It was the bales of shavings that frightened the life out of him. "Oh my God, there's a rectangular, horse eating monster appeared near my stable" YO would introduce horse to the bale of shavings and slice it down in front of him, shake out the shavings in his bed and the horse would look a little embarrassed at his behaviour. But next day it was the same again, and the day after, and so on. It seemed as though he really couldn't remember what had happened the previous day. He was an ex race horse, at the yard for rehab; he was a lovely gentle, calm horse, but he struggled a bit and seemed to have genuine learning difficulties.

But I do think many horses to a greater or lesser extent can be quirky about their regular routes changing. My friend's gentle giant used to go past a mattress in the hedge bottom each day, but had a complete meltdown when the council removed it. And my own quirky first cob used to spook wildly at the big leaves (looked like rhubarb) that appeared each spring in the ditch that we rode past.
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Burdock leaves? Yes, absolutely lethal those are!!
I have been reading Beth Valentines stuff but haven't noted that, I'm sure there's plenty I haven't read yet so I'll keep going.
 
Doesn't look like a lunatic does he? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9JOpaU58PuU

If he was a loony constantly id absolutely retire him and keep him as a pet, but he really is a lovely riding horse who tries really hard.

The other day we turned and went back along s track of just been on, usually find but for some reason as we turned to go back towards home he decided there was something terrifying in the distance and went into panic mode. I couldn't see a thing and we had only come up the track that minute. I sat and sang a rather rousing rendition of 'stay with me' (apt I thought!) to no avail (no big surprise, I have a god awful singing voice!!) then he decided there was something terrifying behind him as well and he just didn't know what to do. At that point I hopped off and we did a few steps led then stop and shake on repeat for about 500m before he relaxed slightly. So led I can get through most situations. He obviously doesn't have the same faith in me on top.
 
on a slightly different train of thought, how is his eye sight? you say he copes better in the school, maybe the comfort zone is he knows where he is, but out in the real world he has limitations in his far sight, hence we he sees things in the distance he doesn't know the flight response kicks in?
 
I keep meaning to have his sight checked actually. I don't know much about eyes and how a vet could tell if he has issues with far sight. Or what to do about it if he did.
 
KatPT said:
Burdock leaves? Yes, absolutely lethal those are!!
I have been reading Beth Valentines stuff but haven't noted that, I'm sure there's plenty I haven't read yet so I'll keep going.
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He looks lovely in the video, and you ride him very nicely indeed with a lot of empathy and a quiet, positive attitude.

Here's the page I was after - it's a few years since I've read it (my heavy horse had a neuro muscular disorder and I put him on an EPSM diet to help him - Beth Valentine was very helpful and wrote to me offering her advice): https://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsmdiet_changes.htm

I hope all works out well for you, as you seem to make a fabulous partnership.
 
Cobbytype said:
He looks lovely in the video, and you ride him very nicely indeed with a lot of empathy and a quiet, positive attitude.

Here's the page I was after - it's a few years since I've read it (my heavy horse had a neuro muscular disorder and I put him on an EPSM diet to help him - Beth Valentine was very helpful and wrote to me offering her advice): https://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsmdiet_changes.htm

I hope all works out well for you, as you seem to make a fabulous partnership.
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Oh and an afterthought - if you're feeding Vit E (which I did with my horse), you may be out of kilter with his selenium levels, particularly as your boy is on minimal grazing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to advise on quantity/dosage (due to its potential toxicity), but you can buy combined Vit E and selenium horse supplements.
 
Thanks. I got him blood tested for vit e and selenium, the selenium levels were good but vit e was deficient which is why I decided to add it, but thank you for the suggestion.

I should say that whilst the problem is frustrating ( I would dearly love to head out for a 3 hour hack just me and my horse and explore the countryside) and potentially dangerous (hence I don't even bother trying when I know the timing is bad) the horse is never ever leaving me. I'm not frightened of him, I just want to help him. If I had to spend the rest of his life working him in arenas or in the field I could find ways to make that less monotonous, we do dressage and jump but we also play football, do Liberty stuff and trick train. Or he could easily be my pet and best mate forever if he was dangerous all the time. But I feel hacking is good for the body, especially sacroiliac for lots of straight line strengthening, so if there was a solution I've missed then I need to figure it out. Eyesight and saddle will be next stop.

Any ideas what vets look for to see if far sight is dodgy? Seems fine close by.
 
I have a Welsh Cob that has similar issues but it sounds like his panics are more violent that your horses!
He was always very good with the traditional horse frighteners, heavy traffic, roadworks, tractors, bird scarers, even hunting but could have a complete meltdown at daffodils or a squirrel on a bad day. The meltdowns could and did include going up and over if you tried to push him on and on one horrific occasion he backed up 150m at speed into roadworks, through their barriers and only stopped when he fell into the hole in the road. When he was good, he was fantastic and could turn his hoof to anything but you never knew what was going to fry his brain and then he was lethal.

He's had more than one full work up with the vets including scans, blood test and his eyes checked as the vet suspected a brain tumour at one point because his reactions were so extreme. Everything came back within normal parameters. I was offered Ritalin for him after I'd tried every calmer on the market but decided to retire him at 12 as at that point I didn't trust him not to kill me or someone else even sedated (that's basically what Ritalin does AFAIK) and it didn't feel fair to keep putting him under pressure that scared him enough to react as he did.

He's 19 this year and like an overgrown dog with people he trusts but still prone to panic. I'd had him since weaning and will have him to his dying day as I shudder to think what would happen to him if he was passed on. He has been on loan twice in the past as I blamed myself and my riding for a lot of his issues but both times he was returned in a matter of weeks - the last time he took nearly a year to calm down properly again. He wasn't ill treated either time but he can't cope with change sadly.

I'm sorry that I can't be more helpful with a solution!
 
I think a lot of what people are describing is normal horse behaviour, horses are designed to notice change it may pose a risk, so something missing will make most horses a bit more alert/spooky. my mare looks/spooks at any change of colour on the ground, a bare patch of dirt on a grass field/burdocks/wet soil in amongst dry soil, even a patch of grass that is surrounded buy grass of a different colour. after 2 yrs under saddle she still notices all these things and her reaction varies depending on how on alert she is, I put this down to a flight animal being careful about where she puts her feet, she does not wear shoes so is more aware of what is happening under her feet than a shod horse too maybe?
she also reacts more to something missing than she does to something new, my thought is she can process a visual image of something new and deal with it, something missing is just different with no focus so maybe that is harder for them to understand but they still are aware there is a risk increase?
horse also become institutionalised (some to a huge degree and very quickly) if you have set riding routes/patterns these can make the horse feel safe but if you then step outside of this/something changes it is a much bigger deal than it is for horses that have become used to change and have been challenged by change on a daily basis, change and working through boundaries with our horses are what form a trusting bond (when done right).
OP you challange your horse with the work you do and the variation of that work within the school and the trust and the bond you have in there is lovely to see every time you post a video. but maybe he has become a bit institutionalised. Some horses find change really hard and others just breeze through it.
I have met a few horses over the years who have become such an issue to hack or leave the yard seemingly because the manege/arena has become a safe place that the owners have opted to stick to riding in the areas the horse feels/is safe.
My mare used to do all the stop dead snort like a dragon thing, I can't remember the last time she did it but it does still happen but she calms easy and moves on, she is however hacked at least 3 times per week on various routes for anywhere between 45 mins to 5 hrs so is constantly exposed to new experiences and generally deals with them well, in fact she is more likely to spook on our regular route when something has changed than she is on a new route full of what I see as demons.
What is he like is you lead him out in hand?
 
You make a good point twiggy in that he lives in quite a small world, on a quiet yard with just 3-4 horses, very few changes and very little variety terms of routes I can take him on, so it's not surprising that he notices everything. I've thought of searching for somewhere else (although this is 200m walk from my house, I have people I trust to help when I'm stuck at work, and I can carefully control his diet/grazing etc) I haven't found anywhere that fits the bill that I can afford either time wise or financially. I'd like to take him out I the lorry to other places to hack as he loves that, but my hacking buddy is permanently broken and I don't have any other horsey friends (the one we met yesterday isn't that confident so wouldn't really be able to help, although we did do the little loop together today.) Id love it if the local farmers were friendly and would grant permissive access but I think too many have had distespectful riders on their land.

He didn't really get the best introduction to hacking as his companion broke not long after I backed mine, so we haven't had a good consistent buddy from the start, just on and off whilst he is sound.
 
I can't offer any advice but can say that I know exactly what you are going through. My first horse was very similar although completely over reacted and eventually became very dangerous - rearing and falling over, leaping, running backwards at speed. I persevered for years and it wasn't until I started to break my 3yo that I realised that there was something really not right (my 3yo behaved much more calmly but was a more anxious horse). I made the decision to retire him at 13yo but found a home for him with a lady who didn't want to hack, she just rode in the school. I was completely open and honest with her about the situation but soon things turned bad in there so she retired him for good. At the time I didn't know anything about mineral deficiencies and we don't have any horse vets (we are on a small island). You sound like you are doing everything right and giving him the best possible chance and while he continues to react in the way he is you will be able to manage him but please be careful because my boy just kept getting worse and worse to the point he was terrified and was going to injure himself, me or anyone close by. I regret not investigating why my boy reacted in the way he did but at the time I did what I could and thought was best for him but miss him everyday. Is your boy very clever - mine was overly clever and I think this contributed to the problem. (They say there is a very fine line between being very clever and having mental difficulties). I reall wish you well because it looks like you have a great relationship.
 
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