Correct diagonal at rising trot - why?

SEL

SEL

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Today I corrected someone on her trot diagonal and she asked me why it was important we rode on the correct diagonal. So I waffled on about balance for a bit and she told me that she felt balanced when she was on the wrong diagonal so was there really a problem. To be fair the horse was as balanced when she was incorrect as when she was correct (but its that kind of horse!).

So why do we do it? Most of the googling I've done tells you when to rise and sit but tells you very little about WHY.

My own horse is very crooked and riding trot on left lead feels great but on right lead feels awful - no matter which way you're going around the school. This is because of a known muscle problem but it got me thinking about why she should feel that way and I decided I didn't know.

So I thought I'd ask the proper riders on here :)


[cause then I can go back and tell people and sound all knowledgeable rather than the part-time happy hacker that I really am!]
 
I'd be interested in people's reasons too - especially since the "wrong" and "correct" diagonal are different according to which country you are riding in (thus indicating that there is no "correct" one).
 
MadisonBelle said:
It's to help keep the horse balanced when on a circle or corners. :)[/QUOTE

Agree with this

BUT thinking about it, if your horse is not falling in on the corners and you are sitting straight ie your not falling in on the corners, so you are both balanced and straight then the correct diagnol probably wouldn't matter too much. I have seen plenty of people ride lovely dressage tests from start to finish on the in correct diagonal. I'm old school and have to be on the correct diagonal!
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Personally I stick with the UK accepted version of correct... no one remarks upon it and choosing a system rather than just being random means you work horses evenly. My horses feel right this way round, but then thats how ive trained them.
I often swap diagonal if rising in leg yield or half pass etc because it can be easier to give an aid to the leg I want to step underneath when you are in the sit phase.

Ask a different person you'll get a different answer. People sometimes say you should sit when the inside hind is in support stance on the floor.
 
As long as you are consistant then it shouldn't matter - i.e always sit on either the outside (UK standard) or inside (Russian, French & various other places standard) shoulder, then change when going in the opposite direction.
 
This has now been tested by biomechanics experts and I asked this question at a training day I went to.

They told us that the horse's stride length is longer if you sit to the diagonal on the British method, when the outside shoulder comes back.
 
milliepops said:
Interesting. . Is that documented anywhere?
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I don't know. It was the people who did the Fairfax testing (Centaur?) The guy was absolutely unequivocal. He said if you are rising to the trot then it has to be the English way.

It was at a BHS training day so two hundred. people should have heard him :)
 
Absolutely. So many people hack out on the easy, comfortable one, and then wonder why in the school it is hard. :-)
 
Clodagh said:
Absolutely. So many people hack out on the easy, comfortable one, and then wonder why in the school it is hard. :-)
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*waves* that would be me! I fall straight onto the right diagonal no matter what. Only one horse has bumped me onto the left.

I have to consciously change to the left and I find it bloomin hard work! My pelvis and back are totally out of line which will be the cause of my problems as left lead just feels wrong on a straight moving horse. The one that bumps me to the left moves awfully. I should probably go and get some physio but I can't stand people touching me!
 
Janah said:
Important to remember whatever diagonal one chooses to change regularly when hacking out.
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This.

I was always taught that the reason for having to change on each rein was so you didn't 'wear out' one pair of legs. So the horse is worked evenly. I also try and change diagonal every so often out hacking.
 
I can't explain why it should be easier for the horse to carry you on the correct diagonal but it is. A horse we have here on rehab absolutely refuses to go forward if her rider is on the incorrect diagonal. No problem on the correct diagonal. Personally I am very OCD about diagonals. It bugs me terribly if someone is on the incorrect one.
 
I dont have a school, so just hack, I change every 20 paces. I read an old riding book recently, where the concept of diagonals was just coming in. The chap who wrote it schooled outside and hunted, so suggested its more important to switch frequently rather than be specific on which one.
 
I understood you sit as inside hind, is on the ground and so as you rise your weight is off the back making it easier on turns, circles and lateral movements for the horse to step forward underneath itself and therefore balance and engage which would in turn explain the longer stride.
 
To free up the hardest working leg- the inside hind. You want to be rising when this is under him so to do that, if we rise when the opposite one goes forward (we obviously know trot is diagnal pairs) we free this leg up.
 
There is one thing for sure, there are a lot of people who have no clue what a diagonal is judging by the number of horses I have tried who fall in a heap when the diagonal is changed.

I tried a 8k hunter a few years ago who was hopping lame when I changed, he was like a plank. Many horses will tell you they are uncomfortable by popping you back onto their comfy diagonal.
 
This is how I understand it.
Firstly, our inside leg is our driving aid and the outside leg is the framing aid. Our driving inside leg can only have an effect when the horses leg we wish to drive is in motion. To explain, if I want the horse to step under, engage HQ, more on a circle I need to ask his inside hind leg to reach further, if I ask him with my inside driving aid, my leg, when his leg is already on the floor my driving leg aid is useless, he cannot obey me as his inside hind leg has already touched down, therefore He cannot give me anymore engagement.
I will also find it difficult to use my lower leg if my legs are extended and in the straightened phase of the rising trot. So I cannot ask for more engagement at this point either.
So in summary, I can only ask the horse to step under more, engage the hindquarters, when:
A) I am sitting as I can then use my inside leg as a driving aid and
B) when his inside hind leg is in motion and just before his inside hind leg touches down. At this point I would be sitting and I can use my inside leg against his side, then what happens is his abdominals contract causing the inside hind leg to be pulled further under the body.
And that's why diagonals are important!
 
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