Correct Outline. Advice.

H

HayleyUK

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 July 2005
Messages
1,542
Location
Cheshire
Visit site
Hiya, some of you may know I've recently got my 148 Connie pony back, shes 14 this year and works like a giraffe to be quite frank.

She works from behind and does bring her hind legs underneath her quite well, but at the front it all goes to pieces. Shes quite strong and forward off your leg most of the time anyway, so she is ridden in a gag. I find that to get her to bring her head & neck into the correct position I have to hold quite firmly onto her outside rein whilst opening my inside hand. She will come down and soft for a few seconds, then shes off again with her head in the air.
When she does come soft into my hand, I find she slows a bit, so I keep my leg on to keep her forward into my hand.

Obviously, I'm quite wary of being 'on her mouth' in the gag or any bit, and wondered if anyone had any ideas as to what I can do to work on this outline without having to be so clingy to her mouth.
I'm going to watch a trainer on the yard teach at the weekend, so could well be taking lessons from her if she suits me.

Thanks in advance
Hayley x
 
The gag lifts the head. You ought to change, if at all possible and if you think she won't cart you off, to a nice gentle, poss french link, egg butt.

Hold it firmly, of course with elastic in your elbow and kick her into it. Lots of slow work, transitions, walk/halt and walk/trot to give her the message, don't even allow her to do the giraffe act, if she does, stop her in her tracks to teach her that is not acceptable so she cannot walk on or progress unless she is doing it round and down.

When she is round reward with nice forward, rhythmic trot (being as she likes to move forward!) and less hold on the mouth, just enough to stop the poking.

Remember she will feel an ache in the top of her neck after a while if she does it right and is not used to it, so when she has done it right for a few minutes let her walk with her head down to stretch and don't ask during that time.

Eventually she will think that is the only way to go.

If you are experienced, then a pelham with two reins is a bit which takes the head down and in, but be careful with her with this.

Good luck!
 
I think the problem is that you may be rushing in all your gaits! Therefore, the whole thing needs slowing down, so that you are balanced and she can become calmer and more responsive.

It sounds to me like its all in the HALF HALTS. Personally, I think they are perhaps the most essiental schooling 'movement.' When done from your seat, it will take the pressure off her mouth, help her regain balance and crucially get her hocks underneath her, thus slowing the trot down and achieving that all important rhythem.

Make sure also that with your half halts you try not to use the rein - or at least ensure it is leg BEFORE hand. I understand and have the same problem that when everything speeds up it is a natural reaction to take your leg off, but the leg is the horses support. Also be as sensitive as you can, as this will slow everything down too - I always try to remember that since a horse can feel a leaf or fly on its back, they can feeling everything the rider does.

I agree too with Aleedee that you need to investigate changing the bit. My horse goes best if I change the bit at least once a month!

Also... this is going to be very controversial - especially on here - but perhaps use draw reins? I understand that in the wrong hands, when a rider straps the horse's head down, they can be a nightmare, but I find they are brilliant training aids. This is the case when introducing/teaching new movements etc, (although I certainly dont over use them at all.) They would eliminate the fighting between you both, and crucially get her maintaining a contact and not throwing her head up. They will teach you where her head she be, how to achieve the outline and what you should be looking for/feeling, and will also help her develop a topline and 'mould' into a correct shape with correct bend. This means soften her back, accept the bridle and have lateral bend throughout her body (once this is achieved your straightness will also improve too!)

Good luck!!! The more work you do, the more confidence you will both gain. I always try and remember the saying that "whats in the brain goes down the rein!!"
 
first of all, you can't do dressage and get any kind of proper connection from leg to hand in a gag. sorry, but it's absolutely impossible for both of you. it has to be a snaffle, ideally a single-joint fulmer... if you have one of these, it's just a question of learning how to use your hands to connect your horse together.
it sounds to me as if she's 'working in two pieces' with the two not connecting properly, and a weak bridge in the middle. if so, there's a specific cure: everything needs to be slower. try riding her calmly, in walk, as slowly as possible, with no leg (you might need the odd slight nudge to tell her you do want her to walk) and the lightest possible contact on her mouth with both hands. you have to keep it very very light in case she feels she has nowhere to go and tries going up. slow it down as much as you can, gently, until she stops pulling herself along with her front legs and lets her hind legs catch up. when it's right, you should feel her weight lift off her shoulders and her jaw and poll soften. you might even feel her back round underneath you. that's the start.
as soon as you feel this softening in her jaw and poll, give a teensy bit. you must, as a reward, so she realises that if she gives, she gets to a comfy place. don't worry if that means you lose what you've got... if you got it once, you can get it again.
no time to write more, now, sorry... but try that if you get 5 mins. hope it helps!
 
I would go back to basics. Start by using a loose ring snaffle bit, have her teeth, saddle and back checked. I would then find myself an excellent instructor, and work on my own position. To achieve an outline you first of all need rhythm, get to feel the movement of the hinlegs with your seat, get used to counting the ryhthm of the walk out. When you can achieve this then you can move on. The golden rule to obtaining an outline is LEG TO HAND. It doesnt work by doing HAND TO LEG. This will just achieve hollowness. Draw reins will never work, again this will result in an extremely HOLLOW horse.
 
This week, I have had a ceremonial burning of my draw reins. Its all very well getting the 'feel' of a soft outline, being in balance etc but how many people ride forward from the leg? Once you take the draw reins off then hollowness will return. Keep the draw reins and your horse may well become crooked and it could weaken the hind legs. I suggest the problem is with your hands which are perhaps not being backed up by the leg first.

As OP suggested, get yourself a good trainer to help you with this. It wont happen overnight. Best of luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This week, I have had a ceremonial burning of my draw reins. Its all very well getting the 'feel' of a soft outline, being in balance etc but how many people ride forward from the leg? Once you take the draw reins off then hollowness will return.


Have to say that I disagree with both of the above. WHEN USED PROPERLY, they can be a good training aid. I am not for a minute suggesting that they are any form of compensation for poor riding. You ask how many people ride forward from the leg in them - hence why I say that in the wrong hands they are no use to anyone. But those who can keep their leg on (as it should never really be entirely off,) shouldnt have an issue with them.

Another comment, that they stop the hind end coming through, is again only a result of incorrect use. a)the leg should remain on so why would it cause the hollowness and the horse to become behind the leg? and b)one of the purposes of draw reins IMO is to introduce some collection (hence why I find they are benefical in young horses when teaching lateral movements.) This is when the horse is sat right up on his hocks with engagement from the hind end - the complete opposite to what you describe.

Finally, they only cause hollowness if overused. I never use them for an entire schooling session, hence why I am not dependant on them and my horse doesnt become hollow when they are removed. I warm up for five minutes with them on, then tie a knot in them and leave them around the neck. Should I encounter any resistance, I would take them up for a minute and repeat the exercise I had problems with both with and then without them. However, I would also say I use them only a few times a month.

Many trainers endorse them. They are a helpful education for young horses when complimented by good riding and tactful use. Perhaps this is why you have encoutered hollowness.
 
Draw reins have their place certainly. I agree with Lifeslemons.

However, in this situation I would get yourself a good pair of eyes on the ground because as riders we should always look to ourselves first. I also agree that everything needs to be slowed right down, work on your rhythm first and foremost and remember that forward needs to be controlled power - not legging it!
 
Do you really mean "gag" as in Cheltenham Gag, or do you mean 3 ring snaffle? The two are rather different.

If you are riding her in a true gag, then definitely change it - or at the very least ride off a rein attached directly to the bit ring, rather than the gag rein.

Endorse all the comments about needng to ride foward into a soft but firm contact whilst keeping the tempo slow but. Outline is a product of correct schooling and comes at the end of the process. You won't miraculously get a correctly moving horse by creating the "outline" artificially.

A series of lessons with a good trainer will help enormously.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top