Corrective shoeing for lameness?

[Wundahorse]

I came to being a "barefooter" unwillingly, dragged kicking and screaming pretty much. I'm so traditional in my background its not true (well so it CPTrayes for that matter!!)

The critical question to keep asking your vet is what will her "best option" CURE for your horse, and keep asking it until she tells you the truth which is "nothing" it will just mask the pain the horse feels for a while, until it returns and you have to make further adjustments to the shoeing package again.

Believe me, I loved having shod horses, it was easy, I had no "foot" responsibility and didn't have to worry about what I could do when, what to feed, etc etc. But, losing horses in their early teens to bilateral front foot lameness is not OK, its a manmade degenerative condition and once I understood that I couldn't continue to have a horse shod for its lifetime.

Now, I don't necessarily advocate that being unshod forever is the only way, but if I shod a horse, it would be for a few months, to enable them to do something they couldn't do unshod, then I'd get them off and rehabilitate the feet to their natural shape again.

So the same is true for you, if you want to rehabilitate your horse and return him to soundness, barefoot is really the best option for him, it doesn't have to be forever, but once you've tried it you may not want to shoe again.

The decision is yours.

I guess show jumping took it's toll over time with our boy,plus his nearside foot turns in and he dishes which invariably puts more strain on his joints.The coffin joint,navicular and pedal bone are slightly out of alignment in the left foot too.This year has been very dry with hard ground in our area,and at the end of summer,the apprentice failed to cut his feet back enough,which by the end of the 6 week period caused him to feel very sore in front.Our usual farrier shod him then,and he was sound in 2 days.Then 3 weeks ago he tripped in the field,and again was lame.There was clearly an underlying problem waiting to emerge.I will see how the shoeing goes,and assess if this does improve things.

 

[cptrayes]

We have since had him nerve blocked and x-rayed and nothing has showed up apart from he is worst on the foot that turns in and it has collapsed a little in the heel which is to be addressed. There is no evidence of soft tissue damage and the CL has healed well.

The overwhelming majority of long term hoof lameness is, when an MRI is available, shown to be soft tissue damage inside the foot. It is extremely likely that this is true of your horse. Damage to the deep digital flexor tendon or (sometimes and) the collateral ligaments are normally to blame.

 

[cptrayes]

The coffin joint,navicular and pedal bone are slightly out of alignment in the left foot too..

Are they out of alignment with his foot, or with each other? If they are out of alignment with his foot, then taking the shoe off may enable him to grow a foot to match the bones. There is a wonderful example, with xrays, of this on the rockley blog you have already been pointed to.

 

[nursecroft]

If you have a decent farrier then I would have a chat to him/her about corrective shoeing. I've seen quite a few horses ruined by bare foot trimmers, farriers do 5 years training and should know what they are doing. (although i would say the odd few don't!!)

Some horses do very well barefoot and are lucky enough to find trimmers that do a good job but I personally certainly would never leave shoes off in your case.

I hope he's sound for you soon.

 

[Goldenstar]

OP I would definatly recommend your horse has a period without shoes don't be confused by the barefoot shod debate on the thread .
In past horses all had period in the year where they where left unshod and not worked this because before X-rays and all that they had learnt that's what you had to do to keep them in work for longer.
Nowadays we use horses differently and many horses can go years without a break from shoeing and we have a rise in foot problems . Often farriers get the blame when horses go lame but it's a tall order to keep horses shod with out a break without the heels contracting etc.
A break from shoeing with regular trimming is what I would do it helps to lead them around on all the different surfaces you can everyday if possible but never to the point where they are uncomfortable .
You need to ensure he was a good diet for hoof growth and that the bedding is clean and dry pick out the feet at least twice daily .
Talk to your vet about it .
good luck with your horse I hope he comes right .

 

[cptrayes]

I've seen quite a few horses ruined by bare foot trimmers, farriers do 5 years training and should know what they are doing. (although i would say the odd few don't!!)

Can you explain more about these horses for us? It is extremely difficult to ruin a horse with a bad trim, the foot just grows back again after a period of lameness. I would be interested to know who did what which ruined the horses that you have seen.

 

[cptrayes]

pick out the feet at least twice daily .

I only pick my horses feet out on the days that I ride them, so for my Shetland, never unless I am going to trim him. There is also an opinion that all-over pressure on the sole is good for the feet, and if you remove packed in bedding twice a day you are removing that sole stimulus.

 

[nursecroft]

Can you explain more about these horses for us? It is extremely difficult to ruin a horse with a bad trim, the foot just grows back again after a period of lameness. I would be interested to know who did what which ruined the horses that you have seen.

I'm certainly not going to get into another debate with you. My dads a well respected master farrier (one of 19 in the country) and my brother is a farrier. I have my own opinions on barefoot trimmers and I just want the OP to be careful and make an informed decision by accessing the right information.

 

[cptrayes]

I just want the OP to be careful and make an informed decision by accessing the right information.

And so do we, "we" being a whole group of people on this forum who have saved horses which farriers have recommended be shot or put out to pasture. Which is why I find completely unsubstantiated statements like this, dangerous to say the least.

I've seen quite a few horses ruined by bare foot trimmers

I'll repeat my opinion because I don't want to end my post on such emotive, unsubstantiated negativity. It is very difficult to "ruin" a horse by trimming it. You certainly couldn't do it legally and the only trimming method which might do it, Strasser, is illegal in this country on the basis of case law.

 

[nursecroft]

And so do we, "we" being a whole group of people on this forum who have saved horses which farriers have recommended be shot or put out to pasture. Which is why I find completely unsubstantiated statements like this, dangerous to say the least.





I'll repeat my opinion because I don't want to end my post on such emotive, unsubstantiated negativity. It is very difficult to "ruin" a horse by trimming it. You certainly couldn't do it legally and the only trimming method which might do it, Strasser, is illegal in this country on the basis of case law.

My statement certainly is not dangerous at all it is just asking the Op to be cautious with bare foot trimmers and to research it properly with veterinary advice first. I do not have to explain my opinion to you, now I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to attack me on this forum. I really hope I can find an ignore member option on here. (found it!! )

OP sorry, i hope you get him right x

 

[cptrayes]

. I really hope I can find an ignore member option on here.

Click on my name by the side of my posts. Find the button marked User Lists in the top left quarter and click the arrow. Click on the ignore line in the list that comes up.

Glad to help

 

[Goldenstar]

All this bad feeling does no one good and certainly won't help OP who has a lame horse and is worried.
There are many good farriers and many bad ones to and there are some people whose passion for barefoot seems to lead them to suppose that all shoeing is cruel.
I sit on the fence, common sense tells me that most horses will benefit from a rest for shoes every year.
When I was young the horses I was involved with where mainly hunters they worked very hard hacking to meets was very common they had long days and often came back to the yard in the pitch black their feet where mainly very good but they had long holidays with no shoes often turned out on the hills to roam freely on poor grass. They where fed oats linseed chopped straw meadow hay
when stabled ,they got alot of work .
The veterinary care was far less advanced so when something went wrong you took the shoes off and turned the horse away.
It is so different now veterinary are has advanced so much and skilled farriers can do complex work I just think some where in that we may have lost something simple just take the shoes off every year trim the feet and let nature do her own work .
now I realise that's easy for me to say I have five horses so giving one a long rest does not leave me with nothing to ride .I just feel that we have lost something's in the old way that where good.

 

[nursecroft]

All this bad feeling does no one good and certainly won't help OP who has a lame horse and is worried.
There are many good farriers and many bad ones to and there are some people whose passion for barefoot seems to lead them to suppose that all shoeing is cruel.
I sit on the fence, common sense tells me that most horses will benefit from a rest for shoes every year.
When I was young the horses I was involved with where mainly hunters they worked very hard hacking to meets was very common they had long days and often came back to the yard in the pitch black their feet where mainly very good but they had long holidays with no shoes often turned out on the hills to roam freely on poor grass. They where fed oats linseed chopped straw meadow hay
when stabled ,they got alot of work .
The veterinary care was far less advanced so when something went wrong you took the shoes off and turned the horse away.
It is so different now veterinary are has advanced so much and skilled farriers can do complex work I just think some where in that we may have lost something simple just take the shoes off every year trim the feet and let nature do her own work .
now I realise that's easy for me to say I have five horses so giving one a long rest does not leave me with nothing to ride .I just feel that we have lost something's in the old way that where good.

Yes i apologise to the OP, I've just been attacked a lot by this member since i joined but thankfully i found the ignore list.

I do believe you make a lot of sense in your post and agree, horses are not machines after all, I'm sure she will get the right professional advice and hope she ends up with a sound horse.

 

[Oberon]

He already has natural balance shoes,but vet wants his toes cut back more and his heels raised.I also want to see how he gets on with the joint injections and adequan.If this fails and he becomes more lame i will be in a dilemma.He is a lovely boy and i really need to give him a chance.Farrier went to see the xrays today,and talk to the Vet,and they have come up with a plan.

Natural balance shoes were designed by a farrier called Gene Ovnice, who went to Mustang country and studied the wild hooves of the horses there (around the same time 'barefoot guru' Jaime Jackson did the same thing). Both farriers came back with new ideas on hooves. Jaime Jackson developed his 'wild horse trim' which lends ideas to most successful BF trims even now. And Ovnice developed Natural Balance shoes to try and emulate the weight bearing properties of a wild horse.

Your vet wants his toes cut back more...short toes are a characteristic of a BF trim too as shorter walls have less levering forces on the laminae (although you must be careful to make such changes slowly and gently rather than just hacking off a load of wall).

The raised heels (wedges) are controversial. They often bring relief to the tendons and protect the back of the hoof - which is likely to be underdeveloped and weak in your horse. Such relief tends to be temporary though as it hasn't addressed the actual problem - the weakness of the back of the hoof and it's inability to do it's job of being the initial landing zone. Wedges often cause damage in the long term. It's a one way street when you get to that point

Barefooters want to develop the back of the hoof rather than protecting it and keeping it out of action. This way the correct bio mechanics are employed and the tendons and ligaments are treated to the correct energy dissipation rather than constant, jarring forces.

It's been done on many horses who have come right and almost all of them had owners who thought, "My horse just CAN'T go barefoot." until they were desperate enough to try it, and their horses proved them wrong

So basically, my point is that your current NB hoof care, the vet's advice and barefoot practices are all trying to head in the same direction - a more 'natural' hoof.

But (I believe) BF (done properly) will get you there more reliably, quicker and cheaper

I'm not suggesting it's a magic wand - if your horse has had a hard life, he may have too many pathologies to be fully sound. But while he has good circulation (ie not a long term laminitic with bone remodeling) there is always a chance to grow good hooves on him - if you wish to go back to shoes when that is done - that's your choice.

 

[Clava]

...... but I personally certainly would never leave shoes off in your case.

I hope he's sound for you soon.

Exactly why?? Can you please explain the result of doing so?

 

[Wundahorse]

Are they out of alignment with his foot, or with each other? If they are out of alignment with his foot, then taking the shoe off may enable him to grow a foot to match the bones. There is a wonderful example, with xrays, of this on the rockley blog you have already been pointed to.

As a yearling he put his foot down a rabbit hole which caused the twist.We bought him over three years ago and knew nothing much about his past until his breeder traced us and gave loads of info.As far as i know we are the only owners to try rebalancing the feet.His off side has compensated for the nearside dish over time.Both Vet and Farrier say a resounding "no" to barefoot.He was shod with new natural balance shoes,with toes cut back as much as they can be.He has to wear overreach boots all the time,except in the stable.When i turned him out earlier he seemed very comfortable and decided to frolic round the paddock,again looking ok.Many thanks for your valuable advice,however,i will go with the Vet at present.I gave him his second shot of i/m Adequan last night too,plus he is having joint injections Friday.Farrier did not think the xrays look too bad,i just wish my daughter would be more positive,she seems to believe he will never be right again.

 

[amandap]

Hi, my CB X has been on box rest for a check ligament for the last 6 months when we noticed he was slightly lame on both fronts when turning a circle but sound in a straight line. The vet was called and it was thought that he had started up with ringbone we have had him on Danilon just one a day and he seems fine. To put my mind at rest we have had xrays done to day and to our suprise there seems to be no obvious changes in the bones. The only thing that has shown up is that he has a foot that turns in (which he has always had) and his foot balance is very wrong collapsed heels. My question is has anyone had this happen to them, could this be the cause of his lameness and is there hope that with correct shoeing he might come sound again.

Have a look at this blog post from yesterday Welly. http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/12/whole-horse.html

My advice to help with your decision is to learn as much as you can about horses and their hooves, question the vet and farrier about their reasoning and how treatments recommended will actually help in the longer term. My understanding is wedging and shoeing forms a sort of splint for the hoof to stabilize it and the wedge protects the back half of the hoof from ground contact. Hooves, like our bodies get strong with exercise. We are often weak in the affected limb when plasters for broken limbs are removed, why? From the inactivity, lack of use of that limb. It is my belief hooves are just the same, they need to flex and be exposed to pressure and exercize to become stronger. Of course a weak hoof will need nurturing and some protection to avoid discomfort so the use of conformable/comfortable surfaces, pads boots (if needed) and gradually increasing exercize that the hoof is ready for is employed. It takes time to rehab a weak hoof so work may need to be limited until hooves are stronger.
Hooves are part of the horse and are affected by and affect the rest of the horse so looking at the whole horse, diet, management, exercize etc. is vital imo.

Whatever you decide good luck.

 

[Andalucian]

He was shod with new natural balance shoes,with toes cut back as much as they can be.He has to wear overreach boots all the time,except in the stable.When i turned him out earlier he seemed very comfortable and decided to frolic round the paddock,again looking ok.Many thanks for your valuable advice,however,i will go with the Vet at present.I gave him his second shot of i/m Adequan last night too,plus he is having joint injections Friday.Farrier did not think the xrays look too bad,i just wish my daughter would be more positive,she seems to believe he will never be right again.

I hope the vet/farrier gave you good feedback on what this course of treatment will cure!! Speak to you again in a few months then.

 

[Oberon]

As a yearling he put his foot down a rabbit hole which caused the twist.We bought him over three years ago and knew nothing much about his past until his breeder traced us and gave loads of info.As far as i know we are the only owners to try rebalancing the feet.His off side has compensated for the nearside dish over time.Both Vet and Farrier say a resounding "no" to barefoot.He was shod with new natural balance shoes,with toes cut back as much as they can be.He has to wear overreach boots all the time,except in the stable.When i turned him out earlier he seemed very comfortable and decided to frolic round the paddock,again looking ok.Many thanks for your valuable advice,however,i will go with the Vet at present.I gave him his second shot of i/m Adequan last night too,plus he is having joint injections Friday.Farrier did not think the xrays look too bad,i just wish my daughter would be more positive,she seems to believe he will never be right again.

Good luck with him. I hope he comes right for you.

(thanks for patiently listening to us ramble on

)

Just remember, if you need us, we are here for you