Corruption in Showing....

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packwood

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As the new season approaches, I find myself actually NOT looking forward to the shows. This after more than 50 years of showing and with two new propects to bring out this year - in theory. I am totally fed up of the corruption which goes on - I have already been offered an RI ticket for one horse - if I pay enough. I was told it was impossible for an amateur to qualify - but I know that is not true, However, I also know its much easier if you horse is produced by a name. You might argue that they do a professional job - and I would agree BUT there were virtually no professional producers even thirty years ago and I believe competition was much fairer then. Am I just getting old and grumpy or do other people feel the same?
 
I only do unaffiliated showing, but even there it seems to be who you know a lot of the time. We were placed below a horse that was obviously lame, and it was clear after the class that the judge and competitor knew eachother. It was only a small fun (!) show, but still, not fair. Horse gossip forum is always worth a good read - seems cheating is endemic in showing these days :(
 
Interesting that you mention Horse Gossip. Some of the people heavily involved in corruption are the very ones that frequent that forum.
 
Completely agree. I showed my mare for the first time last year. Only did it once! I was new to showing and my face didnt fit. We got placed 5th. 1st was a very naughty horse, kept spinning and rearing, kicking out and being very dangerous. At the end when I got my rosette, the judges assistant woman said "fatten that pony up and keep coming. You will do better next year"

Pony was prone to lami so that was never going to happen!

I'm going back this year with my haffy to attempt a bit of jumping. I might try my luck again at in hand...
 
I'm taking my soon to be 2 yo this summer but it's for the experience and nothing else! I know I am obviously biased but he's a stunning coloured sports horse with very correct conformation and lovely movement. Literally everyone who sees him comments. However I am careful with his diet as he's a big clumsy boy, and he's a nice slim healthy weight. No doubt that'll do no good in the ring - plus I don't know anyone up here on the circuit. We'll just be going for the sights and sounds.

ETS the promotion of fat animals really disgusts me. Perhaps if some of the judges had seen first hand the suffering caused by laminitis, Cushings, EMS and the like, they might drop their ridiculous attitudes. If anyone told me to put weight on my boy I'd probably explode!
 
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I do some judging locally and some equifest stuff. I don't care who you are I will only judge what I see in front of me on the day and I have put some previous winners down the line, if they aren't what I perceive to be what the class calls for then that's MY opinion, don't like my style? then avoid me in future!
 
Pack wood your right there, nothing to add.

We got out of the game years ago, it's a new era- owners and breeders who think that their nag is a world beater, corner cutting, and dubious practises. Throwing money at something doesn't mean it's good!!
 
I do not bother now, too many politics, far too many people judging local shows that really shouldn't be. I know of at least 2 judges that have been under the watch of RSPCA for neglect.

Was told at a local show last year that my horse was too well behaved and nice to be at local showing. The line up at another local show ( October) we were told our horses were far too hairy! was a native class.

Equifest was quite shocking, a horse got loose and jumped into another ring , got placed 1st, and was quite shocked that in an other class a LOU and a lame horse were in the top 3.
 
I used to think that this was just sour grapes. However, I have a relative who breeds Connemara ponies and he explained about the connection between the winners and the judges. His view was that no breeder should be allowed to judge because they automatically favour their own blood lines and by doing so would enhance the value of future stock they themselves breed.
Two years ago his young stallion won it's age class and also group class. However the winner of the overall show was a filly that his stallion had actually beaten:confused: That year they had a foreign ( dutch i think) judge in and he happened to bump into her a few weeks later and she made a point of telling him that she had disagreed with the decision. Last year they didn't invite any outside judges!
Shame really as it does not actually do much to improve the breed standard.
 
It's nice to hear Bobbly not be afraid to have a different opinion.
However, I know that if competitors know the judge to be fair like that,they often won't support the show. Who looses out then? Sadly the show as It h less support.
We show at local level at the minute, but have shown at county in the past and may again in the future. However, I know we are unlikely to be well placed as our faces do not fit, not matter how perfect our horse.
I have had a horse shown professionally in the past, as I felt we would do it an injustice, and it was always well placed and took championships. The same horse shown at local level with ourselves, rarely got placed!, So, I defiantly think the professionals make a difference, as they present the horse in a better way than we could,it is their job against it being my hobby after all.
But, showing is also one persons opinion on the day, and many will never agree with it.
 
How about this. My friend owned a horse who had won at HOYS. She had him about 8 years after his victory, & as he enjoyed his showing (hadn't done any since his victory), she put him in an amateur class at an affiliated breed show. He had been doing very well in dressage, so was going beautifully. Went in ring, judges assistant came up to confirm the name of the horse (thought they weren't meant to do this), then judge & assistant refused to judge class (they had no connection to friends horse), but passed the bowler to the lady with the clipboard at the ring entrance & left her to judge. Unbelievable. She'd paid serious money to enter an affiliated breed show at a Malvern needing an overnight stay for all. For their money they got judged by the ring assistant.

Complained to the breed society, they didn't want to know & refused to do anything about it.
 
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I only show unaffiliated for fun but even now Im wearing off and am sticking to dressage. I can think of many occasions that I was robbed of a higher placing- horse that got first was incredibly lame, quite clearly had arthritic hocks! Rider clearly knew the judge. At a county show, this thing with absolutely shocking conformation came first because it had KWPN stamped on its backside. Was the worst put together horse I've seen. 16hh, short backed , sloped loins, ewe neck, behind the knee, you name it. And also at a CHAPS qualifier last year we got placed behind one that bucked and kicked out in canter even though my boy done a perfect show and was working correctly :(

I personally know people that have 'bought' there way into the showing world.
 
my first show in hand witm my welsh sec c he came first out of 8. second show he came second out of 13. and my third and final show he wasnt placed out of 7 where......THE JUDGES DAUGHTER WON!!!!!! grrrr lol.
 
I gave up at showing years ago when I took my Anglo Arab into an Arab and Part bred class. I wasn't expecting to win or anything but looking round what else was there and how it behaved I thought we might manage a 3rd or so. What actually happened was the judge gave first place to an in hand Arab that lunged and kicked out at every single ridden horse as it went past on individual show. Think we came about 5th which didn't bother me but what did bother me was what they chose to place first! I decided it was a waste of time and all the effort required after that.
 
Bobbly said:
I do some judging locally and some equifest stuff. I don't care who you are I will only judge what I see in front of me on the day and I have put some previous winners down the line, if they aren't what I perceive to be what the class calls for then that's MY opinion, don't like my style? then avoid me in future!
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You are a judge I would love to show under! That's how it should be in IMO!
 
Bobbly said:
I do some judging locally and some equifest stuff. I don't care who you are I will only judge what I see in front of me on the day and I have put some previous winners down the line, if they aren't what I perceive to be what the class calls for then that's MY opinion, don't like my style? then avoid me in future!
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Yes, some of us judge like this :D It doesn't always make us popular, however :rolleyes: Not that popularity is something I worry about unduly ;)
 
Suelin said:
T'was ever thus, IME.
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Yes, this thread is complaining about human nature, sad but true. There's nothing new about that!

Shows are great for getting young stock used to noise and excitement but not much else. As a means of selecting breeding stock they are a disaster and always have been -- for ALL domestic livestock.
 
pip6 said:
How about this. My friend owned a horse who had won at HOYS. She had him about 8 years after his victory, & as he enjoyed his showing (hadn't done any since his victory), she put him in an amateur class at an affiliated breed show. He had been doing very well in dressage, so was going beautifully. Went in ring, judges assistant came up to confirm the name of the horse (thought they weren't meant to do this), then judge & assistant refused to judge class (they had no connection to friends horse), but passed the bowler to the lady with the clipboard at the ring entrance & left her to judge. Unbelievable. She'd paid serious money to enter an affiliated breed show at a Malvern needing an overnight stay for all. For their money they got judged by the ring assistant.

Complained to the breed society, they didn't want to know & refused to do anything about it.
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They were going by the rules Pip even though it might have been before your friend bought the horse as they're not allowed to judge if they've had anything to do with said horse, whether that be as owner, breeder, rider, seller or producer; it didn't matter that it was so many years earlier; they were, quite rightly covering their butts as someone else would have been bound to have an elephant memory and complained if they had. Just a shame your friend didn't check out his full history before entering then she would have known not to enter under them.
 
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Yes of course it can be corrupt, as with any discipline....

But it's more than doable for amateurs with no connections to get RI, HOYS & Olympia tickets. I have a friend who is living proof and does exceptionally well on her handful of ponies and has done for years & years now.
 
Having been very goodd friends with an amateur producer who produced the best horse in the country no fewer than three times,I would challenge your ascertain that corruption is endemic or that you need to be a professional to suceed.
 
There used to be a local show near me, that apparently had been popular as a low level unaffiliated show for donkeys years. It had moved to a nearby yard, & slowly got taken over by the yard. First time I went, daughter was 2&1/2, & went in lr equitation, purely because it was a safe enough class to satisfy 'my ride in ring, my get wosette' & of course I wasn't watching with expectations of a placing. And there were a few really cracking kids. Halfway through, a girl that had clearly never sat on a horse more than once, feet jammed through stirrups, hands backwards on reins etc, came in on a filthy horse. Judge said 'hi x, your mum drank a lot last night, thought you might be late'. Kid bounced round the outside, then sat in the middle while horse grazed. Guess who won? My child was quite happy with her special rosette, but very unfair on the other kids, how do you explain to a 6/7yr old what they need to work on if things like that happen. I also witnessed lots of other similar scenarios, like the heinz 57 that won m&m, that belonged to someone on that yard. Incredibly sad too, because it ended up with nobody going, except the odd kid from the next door yard to do cr, & they closed it halfway through the next season.
 
Back in the 80s when I worked with show ponies we bought a 4 year old from a top producer. At his first show (South of England) the producer stood beside the pony as we went in and made sure the judge saw him. He won his class and was champion. Pony did continue to do well on his own merit but I was a bit shocked at the time.

My own PBA was not top class show material yet did well against the big names of the time. Those lower places meant a lot to me as we were against such good horses. However, at one dressage competition, a really big name was competing and the judge got out of the car at the end of the test and they were obviously old friends. You should have heard me carrying on in the lorry park muttering "fix" and "unfair" :mad: then the scores went up and I had won :eek: I quickly changed my tune to "what a good judge" :D
 
We have all sorts of judges here, just like you have over in England. Some are fantastic and unbiased, others not so. I check out which judges are doing which classes at competitions we enter and if it's a biased one we don't enter that competition and will go elsewhere to compete. When we've had shows here at my place I won't, nor do I let family members enter these classes in the interests of fairness, or perceived fairness.
 
Having shown very successfully as an amateur, there are obviously many honest judges around or my horses wouldn't have done so well. However, there are rotten apples too and I no longer show as a result. It was getting ridiculously expensive to travel south to some of the big shows, stand Supreme one week and be down at the end of the line the next. The last straw was to stand below a horse at the end of an 18 horse line-up that the judge claimed was lame on three legs.:eek: My filly had been Champion the week before and was Champion again the following week. We do affiliated jumping now. The clock never lies! :D
 
Ah but where is the fun in showing if your not running a book on who's turn it is win this week and then bitching and conplaining to the person next to you who will turn around and do the same thing about you to someone else mere hours later?! :D
 
EKW said:
Ah but where is the fun in showing if your not running a book on who's turn it is win this week and then bitching and conplaining to the person next to you who will turn around and do the same thing about you to someone else mere hours later?! :D
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Haha love it!
 
Cat people and budgie people do it the right way but don't think it'd work with horses.

Sadly, it's down to the money involved. Greedy greedy people.

Doesn't matter which level you go in at, faces usually win and the results could be written months before the event.
 
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