Cost-benefit of 7.5tonne vs 3.5tonne vs 4x4+trailer

Which is the best combination in your opinion?

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cp1980

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Doing some maths to work out which of the following combos would represent the best value for money, both in terms of cost to buy and cost to run (also factoring practicallity)

Three typical options:

A 4x4 or other large car and trailer

Pros: Easy to buy, trailer is cheap to maintain, only need one car
Cons: Have to take trailer (B1+E) licence; 4x4 is costly as everyday car; no living (unless the 4x4 is actually a van)

A 3.5 tonne van horsebox

Pros: No need for additional licence; easy to drive and maintain; second car could be small
Cons: Need a second car, attract a premium so can be costly to buy; no living (but could pull a caravan)


7.5 tonne horsebox

Pros: Very practical if correctly built, second car could be small, can have living.
Cons: Need to get a C1 licence, need to run a second car, parts can be costly, expensive to buy



What do you have? Do you still like your combination?
 
Have had a 4x4 and trailer for years but the 4x4 needs updating so seariously considering 7.5 tonne route for a change as much as anything. I expect lorry to be more expensive to run but as we have a 2nd car not too much of a problem
Would never go 3.5 tonne as they are always at their limit ( or overloaded) as far as weight and engine power goes so 7.5 livestock container and maybe a saddle rack and bench to sit on is enough for me
 
A 3.5 tonne van horsebox

Pros: No need for additional licence; easy to drive and maintain; second car could be small
Cons: Need a second car, attract a premium so can be costly to buy; no living (but could pull a caravan)
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With a 3.5 tonner and no B+E you would need a very small caravan - under 750 kgs MPTLM (MAM)

A 4x4 or other large car and trailer

Pros: Easy to buy, trailer is cheap to maintain, only need one car
Cons: Have to take trailer (B1+E) licence
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If more than one horse then yes, a B+E WILL be needed

4X4 with a one horse trailer can easily be done on a B licence
 
can i just add you need to consider also equally as important how much you will use a 7.5 tonner if you go tht route. They are designed to be driven and standing them up for several weeks at a time will not do it any good at all. they need to be used at least weekly otherwise dont bother. 7.5 tonner are cheaper but you need to factor higher maintenance costs mot is a lot more than 3.5 tonner. I have had 3 7.5 tonners and now have a 4x4 and trailer.
 
I have a Leyland 7.5 and I'm old so can drive on my car licence; I paid £5k for it 8 years ago and the only thing I've spent on it so far ( not including plating/tax obviously ) is new discs and pads and 2 new tyres. It has good living and a 2.1t payload.

The pro's Very easy to drive/park, living is fab and I go on camps quite a lot, I can carry two horses or three 14.1hh ponies easily. Diesel, on a straight forward journey is really good ( recently did a 400 miles trip for less than £90) I share a car so not much expense there.

Con's; Unless you know what your looking at, can be an expensive buy! plating cost is £90 now, plus tax . You need somewhere to park it! If your young you will have to take a test.

Trailer and 4x4 don't really know as never had either. But I know my friend has just bought a trailer for just of £1k and it needs £1800 pounds spending on it, plus her 4x4 has just failed its mot!

I use mine at least once a week, and more over the summer, off on camp at the weekend, again in July and in August!

3.5t lorry, would never consider it

For me my lorry is the only choice for me, it fullfills my needs and the ponies have a comfortable ride, so win win :)
 
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Interesting thread as I've got to make the same sort of decision soon...:)

ROG said:
If more than one horse then yes, a B+E WILL be needed

4X4 with a one horse trailer can easily be done on a B licence
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Numpty question... With the newer licences - isn't the towing limit 750kg without the extra towing test?

750kg seems a small weight to include a trailer and horse...:confused:
 
I'd go for the 7.5T everytime - just so much nicer to have the extra room and being that i too am 'old' I can drive mine on my car licence. Also, much less chance of a 7.5T snaking and flipping over as there is with a trailer - my sister was in a nasty accident when a trailer they were towing (with a Discovery) with two horses in flipped over on the M1 and flipped the car with it. That is not the only incident I know of where this has happened so i would never contemplate having or travelling my horse in a trailer. A lorry is much safer in my opinion BUT, as with anything they do need to be maintained so, unless you are lucky enough to have a mechanic in the family you need to find a decent mechanic you can trust.
 
Ladydragon said:
Numpty question... With the newer licences - isn't the towing limit 750kg without the extra towing test?
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The B only licence category DOES allow you to tow trailers BUT there are weight restrictions.

RULE 1 - The gross plated weight of the trailer (MAM) cannot exceed the vehicle kerbweight.

RULE 2 - Also, the sum of the vehicle gross plated weight (GVW) and the trailer gross plated weight (MAM) cannot exceed 3500kg.

Examples:-

Vehicle 1200kg kerbweight, 1700kg gross plated weight (GVW) = maximum trailer gross plated weight (MAM) 1200kg SEE RULE 1

Vehicle 1500kg kerbweight, 2000kg gross plated weight (GVW) = maximum trailer gross plated weight (MAM) 1500kg SEE RULES 1 & 2

Vehicle 1800kg kerbweight, 2300kg gross plated weight (GVW) = maximum trailer gross plated weight (MAM) 1200kg SEE RULE 2

The weight which can be loaded on the trailer is the trailer gross plated weight (MAM) minus the trailer unladen weight
Trailer gross plated weight (MAM) 1500 with unladen weight 900 = a maximum load of 600

The listed maximum towing capacity for a vehicle must not be exceeded - that is actual weight not plated MAM weight
 
Ladydragon said:
Interesting thread as I've got to make the same sort of decision soon...:)



Numpty question... With the newer licences - isn't the towing limit 750kg without the extra towing test?

750kg seems a small weight to include a trailer and horse...:confused:
Click to expand...


You can tow more than 750kg so long as two rules are adhered to:
a) That the total weight of car and trailer isn't over 3500kg
b) That the total weight of the trailer is less than the empty weight of the car


So most estate cars and many small 4x4s will be able to pull 1200-1500kg trailers - enough for a one-horse trailer and something upto 15hh.
 
cp1980 said:
So most estate cars and many small 4x4s will be able to pull 1200-1500kg trailers - enough for a one-horse trailer and something upto 15hh.
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16hh+ for some nowadays

I deduce from your first post that you need one for more than one horse as you mentioned the B+E test??
 
I think the main decider is how many miles you do other than hauling horses, if you only do a tiny milage ie work from home or very close a 4x4 is fine but a 4x4 is expensive to repair and insure/ tax and if you do a few miles boy can you get though some fuel and a new or nearly new 4x4 can lose heaps in deprication !!! a lorry if you buy right and look after hold their value .... and there are plenty of nice cars with £30 tax and 60 +mpg ....
 
perfect11s said:
I think the main decider is how many miles you do other than hauling horses, . and there are plenty of nice cars with £30 tax and 60 +mpg ....
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I think that's the crux. Which is cheaper to run: A decent second hand lorry and small super mini car for everyday use, or a large 4x4 for everyday and horse use with an equitrek-style trailer, etc. Or 3.5t van horsebox and super mini car...


ETS:

When you factor in annual bills like servicing, insurance and road tax, one vehicle looks cheaper than two.
 
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We recently swapped a 7.5 tonne lorry for a landy and trailer. (I'm old so don't have to take extra tests)

The main reason was that I couldn't afford a new enough lorry for it to have 3 point seat belts and I needed to put a child seat on it. However we also worked out that with the repair bills, the extra tax, recovery and insurance for a vehicle and the amount we used it a year (Approx once every 2 weeks) it was actually costing me £150 - £200 per trip to take out! Ouch.

We now have a cheap discovery and a nice trailer. The repair bills will still come, but, OH and the nice man at the local garage can do the work for much less cost. We have also bought a small caravan, so I can use this for Badders (as this was really the only time I slept in the lorry, apart from one or 2 Le Trec's or Events a year) and the odd family camping trip. The Landy can also be used on the small holding and trips to the tip etc. The whole lot including a full service and a few initial repairs on the Landy cost us what we got for the lorry.

I also have a small run around for my 50ml round trip to work as we worked out that the saving in petrol over the landy actually pays for the tax and insurance on the extra car. When OH's estate car dies we will replace this with another small run around, or swap this and the landy for economical tow vehicle.

Interestingly I have also found out that I can hire a 4x4 double cab pickup, with towbar for £99 for the weekend locally, so we will be monitoring the cost per trip of the landy, in case this option becomes cheaper when it really starts to fall apart.

OP - Have you thought about sleeping in your trailer on a Z-Bed, did this may times when competing BE as a teenager, or one of those tents which fold out from the roof of a Landrover (http://rooftent.co.uk/webpages/hannibal/rooftent.html).
 
Shazzababs said:
We recently swapped a 7.5 tonne lorry for a landy and trailer. (I'm old so don't have to take extra tests)

The main reason was that I couldn't afford a new enough lorry for it to have 3 point seat belts and I needed to put a child seat on it. However we also worked out that with the repair bills, the extra tax, recovery and insurance for a vehicle and the amount we used it a year (Approx once every 2 weeks) it was actually costing me £150 - £200 per trip to take out! Ouch.
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This is quite an interesting point. Horseboxes are expensive assets to use just a few times a year, but you can't live without them if you want to compete seriously.

Interestingly I have also found out that I can hire a 4x4 double cab pickup, with towbar for £99 for the weekend locally, so we will be monitoring the cost per trip of the landy, in case this option becomes cheaper when it really starts to fall apart.
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I wonder if you can hire 3.5t horseboxes with towbars? Horsebox hire still seems a little costly, but I suppose if you could hire a large tow vehicle like this you could own a cheap(ish) trailer.

OP - Have you thought about sleeping in your trailer on a Z-Bed, did this may times when competing BE as a teenager, or one of those tents which fold out from the roof of a Landrover (http://rooftent.co.uk/webpages/hannibal/rooftent.html).
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I am happy to camp, but I do like showers and my reluctant assistant/girlfriend might need/deserve some proper living. I suppose you could rig up a simple shower in your trailer, you can get kits for this.

The simplest option for me would actually to have two estate cars. One tow a moderate sized horse in a moderate sized horse trailer, and the other a van trailer, kitted with some living and space for a carriage. The fuel economy for two modern medium sized tow cars wouldn't be much worse than a 7.5t. But, again my girlfriend might not stay my girlfriend if I made her drive her car with a trailer to all my events.
 
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OP - you had 'no living' as a 3.5 Con in your origional post, but it depends on the vehicle.

I can do 3 nights away happily in mine (sink, hob, seat & storage at the very rear, single bed across the cab seats) and I know of couples who clear out the horse area to take a double airbed. A few 3.5s I've seen even have a partition that rotates to become a double bedframe...
 
we have a landy and trailer, the landy isnt actually used much apart from pulling the trailer actually. (No living, its a run of the mill jobbie not like the big equitreks etc., but I have kipped in it on occasion. Not particularly comfy but needs must and its my decision but not something that a non horsey drag-along would tolerate im sure :D)

I have a similar dilemma, as we do need additional transport (and vehicle to haul) and I would prefer some (small) living area for comfort, but am not sure what route to go down as yet.
 
I have 4x4 and trailer and a small car.

I'm lucky and borrow someone's company 4x4 but even so it would still be cheaper to MOT and tax an extra 4x4 than to plate any of the lorries I could afford to buy. Plating bills on my yard (for other people) regularly come near the £1000 mark even though the lorries are reasonably well maintained :eek: My trailer costs about £120 to service. Adding the car service and MOT still wouldn't take me near £1000!!

Plus, I wouldn't run the lorry enough and it would sit and rot. It's much easier to make sure a second car gets out for a run than a 7.5t box. Second car can be used for the odd supermarket trip, work run etc, not so much a lorry!

I think if I didn't work and was going to go out twice a week I'd switch to a lorry but as I only go out a couple of times a month it isn't worth it for me. The cost of maintaining one (and taking the test) is just too high for the limited use I would get from it.
 
jesstickle said:
I have 4x4 and trailer and a small car.

. Plating bills on my yard (for other people) regularly come near the £1000 mark even though the lorries are reasonably well maintained :eek:
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This is really important to bear in mind. Even though lorries can take everything you need, they cost more to keep on the road than a van or 4x4 by virtue of the higher cost of maintentance.

My friend has oft been quoted four figures sums for what appears to be fairly insignificant tasks in the context of lighter vehicles... £2k for a new spedometer/tacho; £4k for a new set of brake calipers; etc.

It woudn't cost me this much for a van or 4x4 and it would be easy to scrap and replace such a vehicle if such costy work was needed.

I think.
 
Having had a 4x4+trailer and a 7.5t lorry both with an extra small run around car as I do serious non-horsey miles, a 7.5t lorry is the cheaper option by a mile for me! They are pretty cheap at the moment so you can pick up a decent one for the same price as a 4x4 and a trailer would cost. The tax is cheaper than most 4x4's, insurance is cheaper, and the mot is a little bit more but not by much. I love mine and would never go back to a 4x4!
 
I actually did this costing couple of years ago, over a ten year period there is barely any difference between them but the 7.5t was most expensive followed by 4x4 and trailer and then the 3.5t.

But we were only talking a few hundred quid difference between all 3.

I went for a 7.5t as wanted 1 vehicle that could take 2 horses and have living!
 
Jesstickle, have never spent that much getting my lorry through plating; Infact over 8 years its only failed once and that was a crack in one of the discs. I've only spent around £2k in all those years.

You really do have to know what your looking at when it comes to buying lorries and trailers.
 
AngieandBen said:
Jesstickle, have never spent that much getting my lorry through plating; Infact over 8 years its only failed once and that was a crack in one of the discs. I've only spent around £2k in all those years.

You really do have to know what your looking at when it comes to buying lorries and trailers.
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I guess it kind of depends on how much you can afford to spend in the first place too? My trailer cost £1800 and I don't want to spend more than that on the car either.Which is fine because I have a dad who knows about cars and can help me pick a decent one, don't think his knowledge stretches to lorries though so I'd be out on a limb. I really wouldn't expect to buy a decent lorry for that kind of money where as I can get an ok car and a very decent trailer for that.

It can't be a complete fluke because I know a few lorries, all of which in the time I've known them (3 years) have had at least one pretty hefty bill! My friends lorry on the other hand (which she spent decent money, is new compared to the ones on my yard and runs three times a week) doesn't cost anything to keep on the road. Well, not much anyway. If you can't afford a decent outlay up front I think lorries can really come back to bite you on the backside. IYSWIM
 
I've just been through the same dilemma. We have a lovely trailer that we bought new a few years ago. We had an old 4 x 4 just to pull it, although we did end up using it for going to the tip and other mucky jobs too. When we had to get rid of that, we went round and round in circles about what to do. We fancied a big lorry, but in the end, we didn't have a big enough budget to get a lorry that wasn't going to cost a fortune in repairs. Plus we wouldn't have been using it much over winter. We thought about a 3.5t pulling a caravan, but it seemed like a lot of money to spend on a vehicle that could only take one horse (I have two, and even though they don't go to shows together yet, they might!). So we decided on:

tn1.jpg


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tn2.jpg


Which has the added advantage of us being able to go on weekends/holidays in it, is pretty economical to run and could be used as a second vehicle in extremis. I already have a pretty fuel efficient cheap run around. Plus the van cost much less than the 3.5t's we'd been looking at. Not all of the vans have enough power/towing capacity, but lots do.
 
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