Cost of Breeding and Advice?

epeters91

epeters91

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I'm considering breeding my 4 year old welsh part bred mare. I've found a stallion and have some of the pricing information so I just want to check if someone more experienced can tell me if I'm right in what I'm expecting:

Stud Fee £500
A.I Fee £305 this includes
An initial breeding soundness exam.
• All scans associated with A.I., including up to 3 pregnancy scans at 15, 25 and 44 days.
• The insemination procedure.
• Routine drugs including:
1 ovulating agent (Chorulon or Ovuplant).
Unlimited oxytocin injections.
1 dose of intra-uterine antibiotics post-insemination.
Uterine lavage with 1 litre of saline post-insemination.
1 injection of prostaglandin to short-cycle the mare, when necessary

Excluded from the package are:
• Livery @ £19 plus VAT per day (£20 per day plus VAT for a mare with foal at foot)
• A clitoral swab for Contagious Equine Metritis
• £25 (plus VAT) for mares on the AI package if taken at Ashbrook
• Non-routine drugs, such as sedation.
• Additional litres of saline for uterine lavage.
• Procedures including Caslick, endometrial swab, endometrial biopsy
• Treatment of endometritis.
• External lab fees.
• VAT.

I am working out that with the stud fee, AI cost, livery for up to 3 days and VAT it will total just over £1000 so I'm thinking if the pregnancy goes smoothly it's probably going to cost in total £1500-£2000, am I right?

I have no experience breeding so I will be speaking to my vets and getting my mare checked over to make sure she's suitable to breed, the foal will be for myself as unfortunately my mare hasn't made the height I wanted but she has a forever home with me too. I have seen pictures and videos of the stallion and his many progeny, his owner has given me information on heights his foals have reached when bred with similar sized and smaller mares than mine so I feel very comfortable with my choice. After doing some reading my plan would be to keep her in light work for the first 8 months and then reduce it and leave her to focus on growing that baby in the last trimester.

I will be heavily reliant on my vets and a friend who has experience breeding and will be breeding one of his mares at the same time so I won't be alone in it but I want to make sure I fully research and prepare before going ahead. Any advice appreciated :)
 
Sounds like you have it very well researched and are well prepared. Breeding can be very exciting and rewarding, although it's not cheap as you know! I wish you the very best of luck with it and do show us the pics when the baby lands.
 
What would you do if the foal ended up the same height as the dam? It is a possible outcome that you should consider.
Do you have more money available if something goes wrong?
Will the mare go to the stud for foaling?
Have you explored the option of buying a youngster?

I seriously considered breeding CM a few years ago, but bought a youngster instead and I have not regretted that decision, although in a way I still would have liked a foal from her, as long as nothing went wrong. That's the key really, I wasn't in a position to cope with all of the potential 'what ifs', some, but not all. Hopefully that's not the case for you.
 
I would say 3 days livery is possibly ambitious.
I'm a first time breeder and my mare stayed at my local vets (who are a well know. Breeding vets). The vet came to my yard to PG on the Saturday and then I dropped her off on the Monday. She wasn't ready to inseminate until the thursday, then held fluid so was flushed for 3 days in a row. So she was there for 7 days (and then I took her back in at 14 & 18 days for pregnancy and twin check.)
At the stud where I have worked most mares are there for a good month+ as they are dropped off mid cycle and only collected after pregnancy confirmation.

Other thing to consider is your October pregnancy confirmation and also 5, 7 and 9 month vaccinations.

In terms of inclusive vets fees I think it has cost me in the region of £900 - (that excludes the stud fee and any foaling costs). That is imported chilled semen on an AI package and only needing 1 cycle.

Hope that helps
ETA my livery charges were less than yours - grass keep at the vets was if I recall £7/day + VAT
 
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This is something I've been considering I'm thinking of waiting a year to give myself some time to save up extra funds to make sure I'm prepared if anything went wrong. If the foal ended up the same height as the dam then I think I would bring it on as I have with my mare, back them, giving them the best start to life and then find them the best possible home and continue with my mare in dressage.

My mare is the first horse I've had from young (10 months) and brought on myself, I have such a strong bond with her and would really love to have a similar bond with a larger horse I could jump which is why I'm leaning towards breeding over buying a youngster. I'd also like to have a foal by her. I will however look into some youngsters and go over all options because as you say if the foal ended up the same height I think it would be very hard for me to sell it on.
 
ihatework said:
I would say 3 days livery is possibly ambitious.
I'm a first time breeder and my mare stayed at my local vets (who are a well know. Breeding vets). The vet came to my yard to PG on the Saturday and then I dropped her off on the Monday. She wasn't ready to inseminate until the thursday, then held fluid so was flushed for 3 days in a row. So she was there for 7 days (and then I took her back in at 14 & 18 days for pregnancy and twin check.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info! The vets website are saying for AI the horse stays for around 24-36 hours so I thought 3 days might just cover incase she had to stay longer. It's good to hear about other first time experiences thank you :)
 
epeters91 said:
Thanks for this info! The vets website are saying for AI the horse stays for around 24-36 hours so I thought 3 days might just cover incase she had to stay longer. It's good to hear about other first time experiences thank you :)
Click to expand...

From what I have picked up along the way, successful pregnancies can have increased success by keeping the mare stress levels down. How to do this really does depend on the mare and how they deal with various situations (eg travelling, staying away from home etc). Just another thing to add to the mix. Luckily mine has travelled & competed nationally and is pretty independent so just tends to go with the flow!
 
OK I'm lucky - the majority of the work that my vet did for me (2 AI pregnancies and 2 natural coverings) was done at the yard - all scanning and ovuplanting that is. For the AI my mares only went in for 2 nights because they could narrow it down that much with the ovuplant.

Both mares then decided to foal on weekends and not cleanse so I had 2 lots of emergency call outs and treatment at a cost of £220 per mare.

Both of my mares foaled happily at home in a very good sized foaling box. Again both me and OH have had experience of foaling as we've been helping out at a stud for over 10 years.

It still isn't for the faint hearted though. One of our mares was/is an experienced broodmare, the other was a maiden.

Have you also taken into consideration the additional feed for your mare?

One of my mares wasn't happy being ridden after 3 months so she was turned away.

I was breeding a specific breed (friesian) because they are one of the few breeds where it's cheaper to breed that buy a youngster. My 2 AI foals had cost me £2k each to get on the floor and that was using champion stallions - still cheaper than buying the same quality from Holland as a weanling.

If I had been able to buy the same foal without the stress would I have - yes! It is very rewarding and it was lovely having foals around and doing absolutely everything with them and I'm proud of the horses they have turned into - they are keepers and won't be going anywhere. We have sold 1 on though (and then sadly lost one).

As we were doing breed specific we were reasonably sure of what we would end up with but I have seen some crosses that on paper and based on past progeny should have been brilliant but when born combined the worst of their parents rather than the best - that's something else that you need to be aware of. What would you do with the foal in that circumstance?

Lots and lots for you to think about.

I'd say ask as many questions as you can. Have a very good chat with your vet and experienced breeders, ask them to be honest about what can go wrong and what you should do if your mare does get in difficulty.
 
you also need to factor in what happens if she does not take on the first insemination and as has already been said you may need longer for her at the vets as it has been known for mares to not take if they are unsettled by the move. if you add up the costs you also need to think of the costs of keeping them in a suitable environment until the foal is weaned and of course the registration of the foal. if you want something specific like making a certain height it often works out cheaper to buy a foal thats already on the ground so you can see that its healthy and you can get an idea of how it moves rather than have one that you may or may not like once its born. good luck with whatever you decide
 
^^^ Agree, I think that that your costings assume that she takes on the first AI cycle, be prepared for further cycles.

It cost me £1200 to get my mare in foal to the 44 day scan (she went to Nantwich vets for an AI package, which I thoroughly recommend). This was a £500 stud fee and she took first time to AI, but I kept her there at livery for three weeks. I couriered the chilled semen sample myself from Twemlows, but I still had to pay a £100 'collection' fee which I wasn't expecting. She twinned, and one embryo was successfully pinched out, but this cost extra.

It's rewarding, but always far more expensive than you can imagine!

The foal is now rising 5 :).
 
Thank you all for your advice and experiences :) I think I'm going to have a look at some youngsters and explore all options there. (have seen a nice palomino filly to make around 17hh, maybe an option? ) If I can't find what I'm looking for then I'll come back to the idea of breeding but at the moment I feel like there's too much I don't know and I wouldn't want to risk my girls health or my limited funds when I'm not 100% about what we're doing and there's a chance that if everything does go well the foal doesn't make the height needed then I have to deal with my emotional connection to the foal and finding it a good home which isn't always easy or end up with two horses I can't really use for what I want.

Thank you all xx
 
Can't weigh in on the costs cause i dont need any AI or livery or the like, but just wanted to say how much i love your researching attitude! You are a wonderful person for considering it all completely properly. If you were to breed, you would be the perfect candidate to do so.
 
I think, I worked it out once that Piper, now out on loan as he grew far too big for me, owes me about £7000, so I would say buy a youngster!
 
epeters91 said:
I'm considering breeding my 4 year old welsh part bred mare. I've found a stallion and have some of the pricing information so I just want to check if someone more experienced can tell me if I'm right in what I'm expecting:

……..

I am working out that with the stud fee, AI cost, livery for up to 3 days and VAT it will total just over £1000 so I'm thinking if the pregnancy goes smoothly it's probably going to cost in total £1500-£2000, am I right?

…….. :)
Click to expand...

A couple of points occur to me;

Firstly, as your filly is only a 4 yo, and if she's a P/B Welsh, is she a pony? I may be wrong but some small ponies present serious problems for vets to scan, rectally and at the important 16 day window, so that in turn may present delays in deciding whether to try again, in the event of the early AI attempt, failing.

Secondly, your budget is assuming that your filly holds to the first AI attempt. What sort of deal have you arranged with the supplier of the semen? I would never again agree to NFFR, because along with many others, I have several abandoned 'coverings'. NFNF is the clearer and more transparent way to do things, and I've never been turned down yet by a stallion owner!

Finally (ok 3 points!) what ever I've budgeted in the past, and if they're all lumped together and then evened out, the resultant foals have cost between 2 and 3 times the imagined figures, and this is why we haven't bred for the last couple of years, and won't again.

If you have your heart set on breeding your own foal, I wish you luck!

Alec.
 
Sadly I'm another who ended up buying a youngster!

We tried with Doodle, spent around the £1500 mark and got no foal at the end of it. I had decided to only give her one year and if she didn't take then let that be a sign, (she was older but had, had foals before). That price was for the stud fee, (we did natural covering as they were local to me), vet costs and all the livery spent at the stud (she spent most of the spring/ summer there).

I'm actually thankful now as buying a youngster gave me much more control on what the horse would be like (sex, height, colour, etc). I would have loved a Doodle foal as she had so much to offer, but then I'm totally biased and there are better animals out there.

To echo the other, be prepared to spend a lot and have a lot of heartache, I wish you lots of luck!

x x
 
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