Cost of feeding!

I give up.

I am justifying the feeds I give because I give them for a reason. I have worked out their diets, they are all good weights (the broodie needs a little more) and they are all happy. Melody without her calmer is very difficult due to violent owners in her past.
I didnt post here for a slating of the way I feed or care I give to my horses, nor did the feed companies "see me coming".

I posted on here to see if anyone could look past the end of their noses and suggest a more economical way for feeding what I do, OR be able to recommend a more cost effective feed with the same specifications as the feeds I am giving.

Im not an imbacile, Im not taken in by feed companies recommendations. Zoon, I think you will find that most weight loss pills out there contain a chelated varient of magnesium, and FYI, my lami girl has been on a 1% diet and is now increasing to a 1.5%.
 
rosie-ellie said:
Yes I agree^^^^my cob does very well on 250g fast fibre (dried weight) with 100g linseed, cinnammon (magnesium in spring) and her supplement. Shes currently in medium work.....
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My girl is on 1/3 scoop of alfa oil and 1/2 scoop of sugar beet and 2 cakes of hay at night and just coming back into work, she was on baileys outshine but is doing so well I have cut that out for now.
 
Rosehip said:
I give up.

I am justifying the feeds I give because I give them for a reason. I have worked out their diets, they are all good weights (the broodie needs a little more) and they are all happy. Melody without her calmer is very difficult due to violent owners in her past.
I didnt post here for a slating of the way I feed or care I give to my horses, nor did the feed companies "see me coming".

I posted on here to see if anyone could look past the end of their noses and suggest a more economical way for feeding what I do, OR be able to recommend a more cost effective feed with the same specifications as the feeds I am giving.
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People have made suggestions and you've knocked them back. :confused: If you're so convinced what you are feeding is correct and there's no other way to feed them, why ask? :confused:

I think you are throwing money down the drain, which given your small income seems a bit crazy to me. It's an insane amount for feeding 3 small ponies, but ho hum, it's your money!

Off the top of my head I bet it's cheaper to feed the three at mine: An in foal TB (Topsepct stud balancer, a scoop of hi fi, and some lucie nuts), a retired WB (good doer chaff and topspec lite), and a lightly worked connie x tb who's having a growth spurt/has dropped off a bit since moving here. (hi fi, topsepc comprehensive, lucie nuts, and outshine).
 
Rosehip said:
I give up.

I am justifying the feeds I give because I give them for a reason. I have worked out their diets, they are all good weights (the broodie needs a little more) and they are all happy. Melody without her calmer is very difficult due to violent owners in her past.
I didnt post here for a slating of the way I feed or care I give to my horses, nor did the feed companies "see me coming".

I posted on here to see if anyone could look past the end of their noses and suggest a more economical way for feeding what I do, OR be able to recommend a more cost effective feed with the same specifications as the feeds I am giving.

Im not an imbacile, Im not taken in by feed companies recommendations. Zoon, I think you will find that most weight loss pills out there contain a chelated varient of magnesium, and FYI, my lami girl has been on a 1% diet and is now increasing to a 1.5%.
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To be honest I think that you have rebutted some very well thought out suggestions, but I do understand that we all can argue the case for why we do what we do (I certainly have!) and sometimes others do put a very valid fresh perspective on things but we are not 'prepared or ready' to make the leap. With regards to copra, it is a fantastic feed and is more than suitable for both conditioning those that need conditioning and also for lami's, it has a high protein content but if I remember correctly the lysine content helps to flush out what the horse does not need (look up boomerang copra, the chap who owns the company Pierce is really knowlegable and helpful) With regards to the Hi fi lite/ff combo, why not just add the smallest handful (1/3 of a scoop of Hi fi) just to add a bit of 'bite' to the ff, you really do not need it at all, but I understand you want her to have a bit of variety, ben hates 'slop' I had to add a touch of chaff to his ff so he would eat it!

With regards to your broodmare, you do not need FF as a damp base, just add water to the youngstock mix for 10 mins and let it soak, or cut out the youngstock mix completely and add a supplement for broodmares (this may mean you can cut out some of your other supplements for her)
 
good quality hay/haylage ad lib and water, and a bit of green stuff. dump the supplements, and go with veg/soya/corn oil as on offer in the supermarket. equivite if you feel the need to supplement. personally i would rather be well wormed. teeth done than fed in the bucket. let the pony baby grow as nature intended .. on long stem fibre.
 
Veteran pink powder has glucosamin and magnesium in it and its a balancer for less than 20 quid

I think you should look up linseed btw you don't have to feed a conditioning amount to get the benefits, it is high up on the list of barefoot super foods

Oh.... And don't get snappy , we are only trying to help, you did ask
 
Rosehip said:
Hi Binky, the Copra feed, what is it, and how does it equate? I was looking at the Pure Feeds website, but Im not sure it would do the job I want.
I stear clear of Mollassed chaffs and sugar beet as my old lad was very sensitive to both, and Seren is a bit to sugar beet. x
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Copra is a good fattening fibre. Trade name coolstance. A bag costs about £14 and because you soak it like sugarbeet a little goes a long way.

Do go back to pure feeds website. Perhaps give them a call.
Feeding horses(especially when you have lami prone AND youngstock) is becomming a nightmare for many,but Pure feeds are simple,nutritious and tasty. You may find that with adlib hay(soaked, late cut meadow if you can get it!)you would only need a handful of Pure easy and Pure balance to mix supps and ensure complete vit/min intake. And with 50% off for new e customers via their facebook page,its got to be worth considering.
I have an 8 year old KWPN who was overfed as a youngster(Gotta grow big 'n strong) and this has done him no favours at all.
My 15 month Appy will NOT suffer the same.
 
Costs me £19.46 per week for my 3, 2 are on fast fibre and my welsh D is on topspec - pricey but worth it.

I stopped feeding chaff to the 2 that have the fast fibre as they just don't need it and it saves me money!! I like the FF as they don't guzzle their food and seem very healthy and content as a result. The mare has a tendancy towards laminitis so FF is perfect for her and my young gelding is a good doer and needs nothing that will razz him up!! I do add a coffee mug of ride and relax for a bit of interest though, and I will totally admit it's for my benefit more than theirs!!
 
I would feed them all on Fast Fibre alone.

Feeding HiFi and FF is really not necessary and I know you feed the two together for variety but FF can be fed entirely on its own anyway as it's got all the vit and mins in so if you fed it at the recommended amount you could save a load of money.


With regards to the supplements you can buy pure glucosamine and magnesium much cheaper than ‘brands’ and perhaps keep using the laminitis prone and no bute but the equivite original is adding to the vit and mins available in FF. Also the mobile mover is, I guess, similar to the glucosamine so probably not needed.
 
broke_but_happy said:
Omg that's insane! You spend more on feeding 3 small ponies in a week than I do on a poor doer TB and a cob per MONTH!!! :eek:
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Broke_but_happy...please share lol...I for one would definitely like to hear how people feed their horses on an economy drive as I'm now on £80 SSP for the foreseeable future (morning sickness) as even when I am well enough to work my position has been filled.

Still have savings for vets bills and fields are paid for til Feb, have 100 bales of hay to get us started but looking at how we can reduce the general hard feed bill!
 
Yes, insane. I spend less than the OPs feed costs per month for the FULL upkeep of my TWO horses!

OP - find me a paper that supports magnesium use for weight loss? I think you'll find the magnesium stearate used in weight loss tablets is actually a lubricant added to the powder to aid tablet production.
 
akindofmagic said:
Broke_but_happy...please share lol...I for one would definitely like to hear how people feed their horses on an economy drive as I'm now on £80 SSP for the foreseeable future (morning sickness) as even when I am well enough to work my position has been filled.

Still have savings for vets bills and fields are paid for til Feb, have 100 bales of hay to get us started but looking at how we can reduce the general hard feed bill!
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Skinny mare is on ready mash extra which is £11.50 a bag and lasts 2 weeks she also gets a small scoop of alpha oil which lasts about 8-10 weeks at £12 a bag.
Cob gets (at the moment) a tiny token feed of alpha oil, when he loses his chub he will also get grass nuts and speedibeet. I reckon total feed bill is £25-30 a month.

ETA: how are you getting £80 SSP?! I only get £67.50
 
akindofmagic said:
Broke_but_happy...please share lol...I for one would definitely like to hear how people feed their horses on an economy drive as I'm now on £80 SSP for the foreseeable future (morning sickness) as even when I am well enough to work my position has been filled.

Still have savings for vets bills and fields are paid for til Feb, have 100 bales of hay to get us started but looking at how we can reduce the general hard feed bill!
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Here is what I feed my 2 -
Ad lib hay as well as out 24/7 on grass
native gets sugar beet and 1 scoop benevit advance
Yearling gets sugar beet and 1 mug suregrow

I use 1 bag speedibeet over winter, maybe 1 1/2 at most if I am quite generous! I use hay to keep their weight on, the sugarbeet is purely as a bulk to mix balancer with. So £10 for speedibeet. Suregrow is about 1 bag every 4-6 weeks and is £14. A tub of Benevit is about £30 when on offer and will last me over a year as native pony on has a scoop a day.

When I had my riding horse (sadly had to be PTS) he also had ad lib hay and 2 feeds of sugarbeet, benevit and micronized linseed for energy and condition. A sack of linseed cost £20 and lasted a month over winter when fed at high amounts and about 3 months when fed over summer. So even having a poor doer too and my feed costs were tiny.

I think the key is to use hay/haylage as main food source - the whole purpose of a "hard feed" in my eyes is to give them the mico and macro nutrients which may be missing from their diets due to the management of the grazing we provide for them
 
zoon said:
Yes, insane. I spend less than the OPs feed costs per month for the FULL upkeep of my TWO horses!

OP - find me a paper that supports magnesium use for weight loss? I think you'll find the magnesium stearate used in weight loss tablets is actually a lubricant added to the powder to aid tablet production.
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In the horse - Magnesium plays a function in over 300 actions in the horse. It does play a role in metabolism.

Low levels of magnesium shows in the horse as aggitation and anxiety as well as sore hooves (as well as many other symptoms).

It is important to note, though that feeding magnesium isn't a miracle cure in itself (like the feed companies would like you to believe) - but supplementing horses who are DEFICIENT in it will help them feel much better. Magnesium isn't necessarily low in all pastures and hays - but the excesses of other minerals restricts absorption so additional supplementation of it is often required.

Interestingly excess fat in the diet inhibits absorption of magnesium too.

And if they are over supplemented - they easily excrete it so it's not dangerous to give.

Other minerals found to be low and often of benefit to a lami prone horse are copper and zinc. But these are not safe to add without knowing what levels you have in your pasture/hay.
 
Not saying it doesn't have its roles - but not as a magic weight loss tool!

Like I said - calories in must be less than calories out
 
broke_but_happy said:
ETA: how are you getting £80 SSP?! I only get £67.50
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Erm...no idea, that's what's in my bank account? It may well be supplemented by my employer (my dad) but I never actually see him to ask. I still do a bit of paperwork for the business but am totally unable to work front of house in a busy restaurant throwing up everywhere. I tried it to start with but spent most of my shift in the loo and worried the customers would think I had some bug! It's wearing me down now as it's been nearly 3 months of me being poorly. :(

We've just switched to speedi-beet and the old man is on doctor's orders to just have slop so the ready-mash might be a welcome treat for him and his field mate!
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
good quality hay/haylage ad lib and water, and a bit of green stuff. dump the supplements, and go with veg/soya/corn oil as on offer in the supermarket. equivite if you feel the need to supplement. personally i would rather be well wormed. teeth done than fed in the bucket. let the pony baby grow as nature intended .. on long stem fibre.
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^^^THIS^^^

Would probably halve the incidence of laminitis in the current equine population.
 
I would really think hard why you are feeding all those supplements, its a case of what you want to acheive and what is the most cost effective way to do it. Feed companies make huge amounts of money from these, when you look at the bulk prices of most of the ingredients they cost pennys.
Most of the feed companies will admit under pressure that a young stock balancer fed at reduced rates is OK for a normal horses/pony if they do not have reduced kidney function, they just pee out the excess protein. In fact most of what you give them is excreted because what they doe not need is not stored. The last time I compared I think D&H Suregrow worked out the cheapest. Mine get it if they are on short rations.
I think Fast fibre works out quite expensive, the added value is it goes to a mush quickly, buy cheaper nuts and add the water a bit earlier.
I am a feed 'tart' always buy while on special offer and the cheapest of its type be it conditioning feed or basic nuts. Try e-feeds.co.uk, or chesnut horse feeds buying in bulk. There can be up to £2 differnce on the same 'type'of feed.
I always also check the weight of the bag because some have got sneaky and reduced the weight of the bag to 15kg.I have noticed that some feed merchants have started selling plain chopped oat straw, a bit cheaper than the branded stuff but I would rather give them a nice bale of barley straw and let them pick it over.
The cheapest sugar beet tends to come in nuts and really unless its freezing doesnt take that long to soak.
I rationalised all my feeds, I have 7 from young stock to oldies so I have as few bags as possible and invested in a set of scales so when I use something new I know how much the scoop weighs.
 
If they really do need anything other than good quality hay (soaked for your laminitic pony) once the mare has finished feeding the foal then I'd get them all on a decent balancer with a handful of unmolassed chaff or bran. Vetvits do a good joint supplement which is £14.95 and has a very high percentage of glucosamine HCI.

We have four horses and one pony and spend far less than you do feeding them!
 
queenbee said:
To be honest I think that you have rebutted some very well thought out suggestions, but I do understand that we all can argue the case for why we do what we do (I certainly have!) and sometimes others do put a very valid fresh perspective on things but we are not 'prepared or ready' to make the leap.

With regards to your broodmare, you do not need FF as a damp base, just add water to the youngstock mix for 10 mins and let it soak, or cut out the youngstock mix completely and add a supplement for broodmares (this may mean you can cut out some of your other supplements for her)
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Agree with QBee and Zoon completely.

But from an experienced breeder POV, if your mare is only a pony a stud mix is the worst thing possible; she just doesn't need it, neither does your foal; cubes would be better than a stud mix for ponies.
A 20kg bag of D & H Suregrow will cost about £15. It is the ideal food for any breeding stock as it is so dense, you need to feed very little and because it is completely balanced you won't have to feed anything else at all to mare and foal except hay/haylage or grass. NOTHING AT ALL.

A 200kg 5 month foal (so a lot bigger than yours will ever be) should have approx. 1.1kg a day in 2 feeds so that's less than .07kg a day for your foal.
A 500kg broodmare (so twice as heavy if not more than your mare) should have approx. 1.2kg a day in 2 feeds. Again, that'll be about .08kg a day so total for both a day would be 1.5kg a day at the very most so a bag will last you nearly 3 weeks.
You can add chaff but it's totally unnecessary. It is fully formulated and will give you excellent results I'm sure as it gives them everything they need for the growing and lactating frames. It's not for nothing that it is many top studs food of choice for their mares and youngstock.
If you ring the feed help line, they are just that, extremely helpful and don't just push their own products either.

People are only trying to help because you asked for it; please don't knock their ideas away just because it's not what you want to hear.
 
Maesfen said:
Agree with QBee and Zoon completely.

But from an experienced breeder POV, if your mare is only a pony a stud mix is the worst thing possible; she just doesn't need it, neither does your foal; cubes would be better than a stud mix for ponies.
A 20kg bag of D & H Suregrow will cost about £15. It is the ideal food for any breeding stock as it is so dense, you need to feed very little and because it is completely balanced you won't have to feed anything else at all to mare and foal except hay/haylage or grass. NOTHING AT ALL.

A 200kg 5 month foal (so a lot bigger than yours will ever be) should have approx. 1.1kg a day in 2 feeds so that's less than .07kg a day for your foal.
A 500kg broodmare (so twice as heavy if not more than your mare) should have approx. 1.2kg a day in 2 feeds. Again, that'll be about .08kg a day so total for both a day would be 1.5kg a day at the very most so a bag will last you nearly 3 weeks.
You can add chaff but it's totally unnecessary. It is fully formulated and will give you excellent results I'm sure as it gives them everything they need for the growing and lactating frames. It's not for nothing that it is many top studs food of choice for their mares and youngstock.
If you ring the feed help line, they are just that, extremely helpful and don't just push their own products either.

People are only trying to help because you asked for it; please don't knock their ideas away just because it's not what you want to hear.
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Thank you Maesfen. Just a couple of things to point out with regards your workings out.... Suregrow doesnt suit Seren, she went footy with a raised digital pulse, she is currently 277kg, Ideal working weight would be 290kg.
The foal is huge, almost her height and still (obviously) growing, she is 113kg at the moment, so "A 200kg 5 month foal (so a lot bigger than yours will ever be)" isnt really a fair statement.
She is currently having half a kilo of 'feed' made up of mare&ystock, FF and a sprinkle of nuts.

Im feeding the D&H Mare&Youngstock mix as it is specifically designed for natives, I would never normally go near a mix, but it really is the only thing I have found to keep weight on my girl. Believe me, I never thought she would run down to a happa case from being a fat on fresh air pony, but she has.

To everyone else - I do appreciate the more considered posts, the ones where suggestions as to a tweak in the feed are prevalent, however being called a mug, insane and rude dont sit well with me Im afraid, as I am none of the above.
I did not post asking for a break down of my feed, I obviously didnt word my OP correctly. What I want to know is, are there products on the market with the SAME spec as what I am feeding now for less money than what I am paying?
Im happy with the calories going into my girls, Im happy with how they look and how they are doing, what Im not happy with is the weekly bill.
What I was basically asking was can I buy X feed for £10 a bag instead of £11 a bag..... did that not come across?
 
My Vet says you should only feed one suppliment for a problem at a time and not mix them up. If you do you mix them can't be sure what is working and what isn't.

He said this to my friend at a time when I was struggling with my horses COPD and it made me realise he was on 6 different things, none of which were really working. I stopped giving him 4 of them and it made no difference! So I was wasting a fortune on stuff that he didn't need and wasn't helping. I then upped the dose of the other 2 slightly and yes he started to improve.

I'd cut some of the suppliments out and carefully monitor whether this has any effect. Keep a diary so that you know what you have tried and hopefully you will over time be able to save some money.
 
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Ah right well if you had asked " where can I get my feed from cheaper , I don't want to change anything "perhaps you would have got some very different answers.............................toddles off confused as to what on earth the point to life is
 
Oberon said:
I suggest you scrutinise the ingredients of everything you are feeding. You are basically creating very expensive urine.
There's no point in feeding FF alongside Hi Fi.

Magnitude is basically magnesium - which you can buy much more cheaply
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAGNESIUM...r_Equipment&hash=item41576700a5#ht_1237wt_952

Glucosamine effectiveness is often doubted. I would feed micronised linseed instead. Excellent for joints, coat AND digestion.
http://www.charnwood-milling.co.uk/mail-order/Horse_Food.html

Laminitis Prone - you can use Yea-sacc or L-Glutamine instead

Equivite Original - OK, but you are using this alongside cubes. It's meant to be fed just with fibre (as in just FF and this) not with other feeds.

No Bute - basically Devil's Claw. Cheaper sources elsewhere and may be better on micronised linseed anyway.
http://www.equinatural.co.uk/epages/BT3755.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3755/Products/036

Mobile mover - again, Devil's Claw and herbs for movement. See the above link for the same thing.

With the rest of the feeds - you need to look at the ingredients again as I suspect you are feeding the same things twice.

NEVER BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN ON THE FEED BAGS/TUBS - IT'S OFTEN LIES!
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I read this thread with interest because I think it happens to all of us - we add in products and supplements overtime, each one to 'remedy' a temporary problem, and end up with a complex and expensive feeding list like the OP.

I'd like to thank Oberon because I found this information particularly useful - ebay link saved for the future :)

And, OP, in answer to your most recent post, no your original post didn't come across as you have now explained. I too thought that you were looking for some objective, 'new eyes' constructive and helpful suggestions. Which is what I think you got.
 
JackyandRosie said:
I read this thread with interest because I think it happens to all of us - we add in products and supplements overtime, each one to 'remedy' a temporary problem, and end up with a complex and expensive feeding list like the OP.

I'd like to thank Oberon because I found this information particularly useful - ebay link saved for the future :)

And, OP, in answer to your most recent post, no your original post didn't come across as you have now explained. I too thought that you were looking for some objective, 'new eyes' constructive and helpful suggestions. Which is what I think you got.
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No problem.

I took five minutes out of my day to breakdown the supplements in order to try and help the OP - I'm rather disgruntled at the response I got!

Next time I'll just not bother.
 
I agree that most posters provided you with useful information and helpful advice to reducour feed costs - ie exactly what you asked for. Your response was to dismiss each and every one of them.
I will just add that a bucket full of feed to prevent colic/ ulcers is not intelligent feeding. there are still mosre calories in what ou are feeding than in eqivilant good quality long stem hay and or grass. Your pony (by your own admission) is lami prone. Lami and obesity are far bigger problems and of far more concern to her health and wellbeing to ulcers. Cut the feed and stick to good quality forage. But then again, you dont want advice do you?.....
 
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