Cost of livery DIY and full, bit of a rant!

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Following on from the other post on here about full livery being most expensive (should this be in the stable yard forum??) anyway I pay £125pm for DIY livery. Add to that hay, bedding, feed, shoes, insurance, wormers, vet, and any other bits and pieces I need to get and I suppose my horse costs me about £250pm if I averaged it out over a year.

Must admit this started off as a post and is turning into a rant!! Sorry!!

Yard doesn't offer much, there's an outdoor school with a horrible hard sand surface that's dead to ride on and freezes in the cold weather and that's it as far as facilities are concerned, No indoor, no horse walker, no hacking on own land, or any of the other 'niceties' that others have! Loo is in a horrible old shed and it disgusting and leaks, there's no hot water or indeed anywhere to make a drink or have a sit down.

Sometimes we wonder also who's the customer as the YO can be a real moody cow, she goes through stroppy times when she brings in new 'rules' like having to keep much heap banked up and tidy, it's never a mess in the first place, and having to pick out feet before leaving stable so yard isn't a mess, apart from a select few most of the stables are pretty old and tacky and the yard is made up of a mixture of concrete, gravel and mud! My roof leaks and so do a few others and she's not interested when it's mentioned. We have to do our own repairs if anything is damaged or broken or have to pay her to get someone in to do it! One horse had a door kick bolt that broke due to general wear and tear, she said it was not her responsibility to fix it. So Who's responsibility is it if the horse got out and damaged the yard or itself?

You may say well move then but like a lot of people there's not much choice where I am which is near London and fairly built up. Oh well maybe one day I will win the lottery and be able to move out to the sticks! Then again are yards any better out there?? Would love to hear from anyone who's at a great yard and what facilities they have and what they pay, there must be some nice yards out there!!!

There's assisted livery at a cost of course, turn out and bring in £2 (so £4 for both) muck out, hay, feed, water £6, change rugs £1 so if you want any extras you could be looking at £10 - £12 a day on top! We try and keep costs down by liveries helping each other out when we can. Yard owner does it all herself as she doesn't employ any staff and you have to book in advance if you want any 'extras' so she can fit you in.

Interested to see what others pay for livery though. I am in the South East not far from London so suppose that obviously bumps it up, would love to move to a more rural area and have good hacking, unfortunately have to do a lot of roadwork around here too.
 
Ive been through so many poor yards... about 15 years worth of them to be exact.

The last one in the UK was meant to be 65 pounds a week full livery... but didnt include bedding (shavings), hard food or haylage. My livery bills varied from about 420 at the smallest to 550 at the largest.

For this, they never groomed, the beds were thin and poor, we had one arena to share between all of us and as the yard manager was a list 2 dressage rider, most of the time there were several lessons a day...

It was the last yard that finally made us decide we wanted to be free of livery yards and have somewhere with land and stables. However, this just wasnt an option in the Uk with property prices as they were. Result was that we emigrated and we're now finally close to being able to buy somewhere with a yard attached.

Ironically though, ive found a lovely livery yard with crazy facilities, luxury care and we pay 250 pounds a month :/ Piccies can be seen in my blog if you follow the link in my sig.

I sympathise with you completly - for most horse owners, theres no avoiding livery yards and the really good ones are few and far between... well, i never found one in the uk.
 
At my yard, we pay £120pcm for DIY livery.
This includes-
off-road hacking,
outdoor school,
lunge pen,
indoor loose schooling pen,
small xc course,
sj paddock (only open in summer)
clean toilet,
tea/coffee making facilities,
24hr supervision.
spare stable as a store for all our 'crap' as the YO says!

'extras' are charged at-

change rugs- £1.50
bring in/ turnout- £1.50
muckout- £4.00
feed- £1.50
riding- £8.00ph
storage of trailer/box- £9.00pm

We have to provide our own hay/haylage, feed and bedding. We get 24/7 turnout if we want it and the horses can go out no matter what.

Threads like this make me realise how good our yard is- even if it is full of weird people with weird ideas!!!
 
So, if you or your horse damage the YO's property, you think it is up to her to pay for the repair? If you lived in a council house, would you expect the council to pay for any damage you or your family did to the house or garden? Maybe YO is a 'moody cow' because she feels that the diy's are trashing her once nice yard and leaving the place in a mess. Maybe she insists on feet being picked out before turnout because no one ever sweeps the yard?

I am talking here from a YO's point of view. All my liveries sign a contract to say that any damage to yard property will be paid for in full. I have never carried this rule out - we just repair things, however from time to time when people 'trash' your nice yard and dont give a hoot, we YO's may be seen to strop and rant. Im sure that if people showed a little more respect for someone elses property/home and their time, YOs would not have the reputation they have 'moody cows'.

Yes, ultimately our liveries are the customer and I like to think I treat them with the utmost respect, however they dont pay me enough to follow them around all day with a dustpan and handbrush
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I do see your point of view to a degree, but this is the other side of the coin. You sound quite unhappy there and I would move if that is the case.
 
Sounds like a much better set up in Denmark! I mean a clean loo is surely not much to ask, Don't mean that the YO has to clean it in fact I wouldn' mind doing it but the fact that it's in an old garden shed, can't lock the door and the floor is constantly covered in water is so gross! Most people just go in their stable as they are much cleaner!

Just wonder how they get away with it with all the health and safety regulations in the work place these days are livery yards exempt?
Also I didn't mention earlier about the Bl*&dy pigeons that roost in the barns overnight and crap on all the horses in there, also their droppings are all over the place, pretty thick in some places surely that's health and safety? There must be some regulations in place for people who run a business to say what their obligations are to the people on site? One of the liveries was going to clean it all up but someone else said that you have to wear protective clothing etc as it's dangerous to health to start cleaning it up??

A friend of mine was at a yard a couple of years ago, paid the same as me and had nice facilities. 2x manages with proper surfaces, 24 7 turn out, a small indoor school, some off road hacking and a XC course and a full set of showjumps, tea machine and nice loo! Only thing was there wasn't much off road hacking nearby but the nice facilities on the yard made up for that. Unfortunately not near where I live!
 
I pay £24 per week DIY with an outdoor school, oversized stable, farm ride and access to excellent hacking. Assisted costs are low too. I pay £3 per day for turnout, muck out and bring in, although most days I'll bring her in myself - oh yes and that includes rug changes.

Shavings, haylage and hard feed is extra. My haylage works out at about £4 per week, stable has mats so only 1 bale of shavings per week at £5.50 per bale and hard feed I buy myself.

So after droning on, my monthly costs are around £236 including haylage and shavings.
 
Urghh... livery yards in the UK. Don't get me started. I've recently had to move onto a livery yard after having the luxury of renting my own place. I didn't know when I was well off!

The YO of my DIY yard doesn't consider it to be a livery yard, just a working farm with a few horses, this despite the fact he now has fifteen horses between 9 paying customers and only a few sheep. I pay £35 a week for stable and haylage, everything else is extra. There's zero winter turnout and the only facility we have is a small outdoor arena that freezes since he dumped a load of new sand on top of the rubber (the membrane was coming through so instead of fixing it properly he just piled on more sand and no extra rubber). He moans when we turn lights on, in fact we're not allowed to have lights on in the stables/barns at the same time as the lights in the yard. It's one or the other. Very dangerous considering you have to drive through the yard to get to and from the car park. My stables are American barn type in an old cattle barn that has no ridge on the roof so it rains in, plus the drainage outside is naff so it also leaks in under the outside walls. If I didn't have rubber matting (bought by myself) down I'd have soaking wet beds. We're always running out of haylage and having to wait around for him to put a new bale out. We muck out into tub trugs and empty these direct into a muck spreader but frequently the muck spreader is full so we can't even muck out! There's no toilet or anywhere to sit down and there isn't any official arrangements to provide cover if you can't get to the yard. The YO's daughter does mine if I'm away but she works full time and has two horses of her own so mine get the bare minimum of care whilst I'm away (feed/water/muck out). If you're away your horse is stuck in its stable. We're allowed to turn out in the sand arena but not to leave them unsupervised so there's nowhere to put your horse out whilst you muck out. The YO can be sweet and lovely or he can be hot tempered and give you a load of grief. He yelled at my mate for turning up too early one Sunday (7am), yelled at someone else for turning a light on and moans on constantly about hay getting stuck in drains, having to empty the muck spreader too often and just life in general. All this for £150 a month. Bargain - not.

Needless to say I'm moving as soon as I can. I've got my name down for a very nice livery yard (http://www.carrsideequestrian.co.uk/index.htm), which is as nice as it looks on the website. As soon as they've got room (hopefully by the end of this month) I'll be going there. Can't wait!
 
Why do DIY liveries always think that there has to be an option for the YO's to do their horses if you can't get there?

I keep my horses at home and I could take on some liveries as I have spare stables. I have to tend to my horses daily, it's a given when you have horses. If you're on DIY then surely it's your responsibility to make sure you do get to your horses to see to them?
 
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Sounds like a much better set up in Denmark! I mean a clean loo is surely not much to ask, Don't mean that the YO has to clean it in fact I wouldn' mind doing it but the fact that it's in an old garden shed, can't lock the door and the floor is constantly covered in water is so gross! Most people just go in their stable as they are much cleaner!

Just wonder how they get away with it with all the health and safety regulations in the work place these days are livery yards exempt?
Also I didn't mention earlier about the Bl*&dy pigeons that roost in the barns overnight and crap on all the horses in there, also their droppings are all over the place, pretty thick in some places surely that's health and safety? There must be some regulations in place for people who run a business to say what their obligations are to the people on site? One of the liveries was going to clean it all up but someone else said that you have to wear protective clothing etc as it's dangerous to health to start cleaning it up??

A friend of mine was at a yard a couple of years ago, paid the same as me and had nice facilities. 2x manages with proper surfaces, 24 7 turn out, a small indoor school, some off road hacking and a XC course and a full set of showjumps, tea machine and nice loo! Only thing was there wasn't much off road hacking nearby but the nice facilities on the yard made up for that. Unfortunately not near where I live!

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I get swallows in my stable when it's their nesting time. How do you think a YO is supposed to stop birds from entering and nesting? You can't put up a No Entry sign.
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I used to pay £25 pw diy. The stables leaked, the arena was awful under water most of the winter, I wouldn't use it. The fields were also wet and underwater most of the winter. The YO was a cow and left all wheelbarrows full so had to empty before I could use one. The muck heap was a nightmare. None of her horses had there feet picked out, ever. If I left a stable having forgotten to pick feet out, rarely happened, all hell let loose. All she did was comment how I knew nothing and in the end I felt I couldn't tell the differance between a body or dandy brush. Since I've had my boy home I realised how much she demoralised everyone and talked about everyone behind there backs. I used to clear up after her!! as I couldn't stand the mess. I provided my own feed, bedding and hay. She was bloody rude to my farrier and would throw headcollars behind him to try to make him move when being shod or push past with a wheelbarrow just to try to upset him. If I called the vet she hung about and interfered and told him I was fussing, doh, even when my boy had a foot abcess!!!!
I would never go to a livery yard again and not even share.
Rant over.
 
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Why do DIY liveries always think that there has to be an option for the YO's to do their horses if you can't get there?

I keep my horses at home and I could take on some liveries as I have spare stables. I have to tend to my horses daily, it's a given when you have horses. If you're on DIY then surely it's your responsibility to make sure you do get to your horses to see to them?

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Because that's what I was told before I moved onto the yard. I was also told that morning feeds were always given (never happened) and that as horses were stabled up 24/7 someone would always come out at lunchtime to check they had something to eat. Also never happens. Add to that the fact I was promised winter turnout when it was dry (nope) and that the outdoor school never froze (it does now).

I agree you get what you pay for but the average cost for DIY round me is £10 a week cheaper than what I'm paying so that's why I thought we got these little 'extras' thrown in. I was more than happy sorting everything myself on the private yard I was renting but being on a livery yard is different.
 
I pay £100 per month for the use of a 2acre paddock with field shelter plus one stable. I keep two horses on this land so £12.50 per week per horse. Includes forest hacking, water, electricity. Good price IMO especially seeing as its private use.
 
But what you're describing is a different matter. There are many reasons why I would have left the yard you are on well before now.

I have taken some liveries on before on a strictly DIY basis. I was soon being asked to fetch their horse in as they couldn't catch them, etc etc. I didn't mind doing it a few times, but I wasn't being paid for the "service" because I didn't offer assisted livery.

All I was saying is, if you are running a strictly DIY (which many people do) and you know that's what you're getting when you move onto that yard, then why do some liveries still expect a YO to tend to their horse if they feel they can't/don't want to get to the yard that day?

Of course, I would tend to a horse's basic needs if the owner didn't turn up because you have a duty of care as a YO to the horse. I wouldn't however be very impressed with DIY'ers who continued to abuse the knowledge that I wouldn't see their animals go without.

Now, you've since explained that you moved to a yard that offered assisted livery, so that doesn't technically apply to you.
 
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You may say well move then but like a lot of people there's not much choice where I am which is near London and fairly built up.

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So is where you are at currently the best of the options you have?
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There's bugger all incentive for the YO to pull her finger out if people are staying and continuing to pay.

How do the other liveries feel about the place?

Have you got a contract which lists the services you were offered that you are not being fulfilled?
 
Well it made me chuckle, but I didn't understand it and further more, can't decide if it was an insult being directed at me.
 
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Well it made me chuckle, but I didn't understand it and further more, can't decide if it was an insult being directed at me.

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nah i was just being random. I wouldnt know if you were a fatty in a bin would i! Although id worry if that was what you did in your spare time, bins are for getting in!
 
There are about 40 horses at the yard so she is making a reasonable income on livery charges alone considering she owns her own land. All the liveries are all adults and very responsible, all sweep up outside their stable and keep the place clean and tidy, poo pick the fields etc etc. By the way part of the yard is mud so how do you keep that clean? And by the way I DO use a dustpan and brush to pick up the last bits and pieces on the yard after mucking out! Why do people seem to automatically think that DIYers are a pain in the arse? Not all of us are untidy and dishonest, I genuinely couldn't afford full livery round here and even if I could wouldn't want it as I want to do my horse the way I want and know he is being looked after properly, and by some of the posts on here full livery obviously isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Most people only ask for help when really necessary, not because we are not committed to our horses or because we can't be bothered! Apart from a few well off people who don't have to work, most of us are hard working people, some with kids, in fact I work B)(*dy hard to keep my horse. He is my hobby and my chillout time and if I wasn't committed I wouldn't have him. But sometimes work runs late, traffic is a nightmare, any of you who live around London will know what I mean, and kids can be sick, not all of us have partners or family that can help out with kids or horse, and not all of us can keep our horses at home, so I am not living in La la land.

I am lucky that at least the liveries are all really nice and as I said we will help each other out when we can. I don't understand though why people run livery yards if they are not prepared to have some give and take. I have a job where I am self employed, if I treated my employers the way that I am being treated (as a customer) i wouldn't get any more work. Most of the liveries I have spoken to feel the same way but we are all in the same boat re finding somewhere else to go Unless you move house there isn't anywhere.

Also if you keep any animals surely there may be damage, one horse got caught in the electric fencing a while ago, it was like a witch hunt to find out who it was so they could be charged for the damage. The person who saw it happen said they couldn't see which horse did it which was prob best for all concerned. I must admit I omitted that YO is selective to who she charges for any damages, if you are in the good books and she is in a good mood then you don't and vice versa so you never know where you stand. No one has signed a contract should we have done, and who's fault is that?

By the way there are Swallows at the yard and they are gorgeous, and no problem at all, a flock of pigeons are another thing, why do you think all public buildings are covered in netting and spikes, people have had to chuck out decent rugs as the droppings rot the fabric while the horses are standing in at night, and when no rugs on the horses get covered in it. There have been offers of having the birds shot or chased off with a bird of prey but she has declined. Suppose all the pro bird people will be up in arms now, but if you saw how thick the poo is maybe you'd think again.

Yes I would love to move but as I said it's not currently possible there just isn't anywhere else round here that offers DIY mostly it's full livery at competition yards for rich people from the city they do have some gorgeous dressage horses and showjumpers! Hopefully in future I can move house and get out a bit maybe where there's more choice and land available. Oh well been great ranting it's like therapy really helped!!!
 
He he, I thought you were talking about the same yard I used to be on until I came to the London bit! Some yards can turn horse ownership from a hobby to a misery in no uncertain terms. My advice is really search around for somewhere else, even if it means getting on waiting lists or travelling a bit further away. Great yards do exist - I'm been on one for a couple of years and I still can't fault it. The thing is they tend to be a bit of a well kept secret, especially the smaller places with only a few liveries. They also tend to stay full easily through word of mouth between friends so never have to advertise. Ask around everywhere. Drive around randomly looking for places. You'd be surprised how many yards there actually are scattered around, I bet even in your area.
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I think all livery yards have their niggles - that said I'm not sure I'd want to be on my own land again - noone to compete with/hack with and no one to talk horses with!

I'm lucky that I've found a pretty near perfect yard - people are lovely, and my horses are happy there.....not cheap though but when my horse did his shoulder the YO treated him like her own so you can't ask for much more! x
 
I love my yard. Im on DIY and i pay £120 pcm for two minis. I have two stables, my own large tackroom, electricity and sockets. The Yo let me cut the doors down mini size AND let me cut a hole in the wall between the two stables so they could see each other!!! My own fields to do with what i want ( only thing is i have to provide my own fencing as the fencing up isnt adequate for mini but i have absolutley no grumbles about that ) i can use my fields when i want, if they get trashed its my tough luck!!! I can come and go as i please. The YO would put feeds in in the morning for the same price but id rather go myself and muck out. Hayledge is also provided in the price but i get my own hay which is my choice. I keep my trailer for £10 month too. If i cant get to the farm due to being late at work a quick phonecall to YO and he will bring them in from the field, put them out etc... ( but i dont expect this!!! )

If i go away YO and children will look after minis for no charge ( but i always pay extra anyway )

I couldnt have all this anywhere else!!!
 
It does the system good to have a rant now and then
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If you re-read your post (now that you feel better) it comes across to those of us who run livery yards as very negative, hence the response from myself.

Your yard does sound like a run down spit and sawdust hole to say the least and I'm surprised that she has any business at all. As a land/yard owner she has a responsibility and duty of care by law to ensure the well being of any equine on her land. She has equal responsibility along with the horse owner and can be proscecuted for neglect.

Ideally, you should have signed a contract when you went there which would protect both you and the YO. The contract should state what services etc are available, what the YO expects of her liveries and what she offers in return.

It seems that there is a hole in the market in your area ready to be filled. What about calling a yard meeting and discussing any issues you all may have and, in turn, the YO can voice her concerns?
 
I pay £140 per month in winter (can't remember in summer but its about £20 less) for DIY, which includes use of outdoor school, straw and hay/haylage, lots of hacking including beaches (although across busy roads on both sides), toilet and cabin for liveries which has a kettle and mugs and cutlery and stuff. Our YO charges extra for turnout (inc. feeding and rugs) and bringing in for about £3-4 each i think. The liveries are expected to clean up after their horses, switch off the floodlights, poo pick the school (if it was your horse), sweep up etc. Its a fairly good deal i think
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I pay £60.00 a month for DIY. Stable and grazing all year round, hay included,no school though
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but one minutes hack up the road to the moors..yay!and a few jumps in the field. Now my stable isnt the best(leaks in really heavy rain) and in general the whole place is not in the best of condition..but i know that if for some reason I cannot get there if I am ill or whatever reason that someone will help out(feed her/put rug on/off) and Il willingly help everyone else out if they can not get there. Luckily my mare lives out 24/7 all year round and does not generally need much fussing over! I think thats quite a bargain for stable,grazing and all hay throughout the winter..
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I pay £14 a week for all year turnout, stable and bedding. Hay is £2.50 extra a week. Grass schooling paddock and xc jumps, plus direct access to the forest. Also showjumps and free storage of trailer. I think I'm quite lucky
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