Could a 'roarer,' event?

[ForeverBroke_]

I have a big 17.2hh warmblood who is a roarer. I've never had him scoped and so this is something I would look into so that I have an idea of what I'm dealing with - but does anyone have one/know of one who events?

He is fab dressage and bold SJ and doesn't look at anything XC schooling and I would really love to do some low level unaff ODE's with him but I'm just not sure how viable it is. I use flair strips on him which help to lessen the noise. He isn't particularly loud nowadays anyway as he is fit and he only really gets quite audible when he's stressed. I'm not particularly worried about going out to win as I'm more focused on his other disciplines but I would love to give it a go for fun. I just don't want it to be at his expense!

Thanks.

 

[sheep]

A horse on my yard was out doing young horse show jumping classes with a pro as a four year old, always did well in first round but second round never went as well. At the end of the season, when he returned to his owner, it was discovered he needed the tie back op - basically the problem meant he was running out of steam because he wasn't able to get enough oxygen - since the op he has been fine and significantly better when out competing, though he now competes at a lower level with his owner. I guess if you work within the horse's own capabilities it should be doable, but I'd be very careful to watch for signs of fatigue. My first port of call in this case would be my vet.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Thankyou.

He copes very well SJ and dressage - barely 'feels' it at all. I'm just concerned that the prolonged canter/gallop work might tire him. Didn't even think of having a chat with my vet - doh! Thanks.

 

[sheep]

That's it, I suppose that many of them are relatively unbothered by it - I had an ex racer on loan who was very noisy buthe didn't seem to suffer any ill effects! At least your vet may have dealt with similar horses in the past and may give you an indication of what you could expect. Hopefully it will be good news!

 

[cptrayes]

I hunt alongside one who makes a noise you can hear three fields away, and I hunted one myself. The one I hunted was fine but difficult to keep weight on. The other just doesn't seem to notice.

I think you'll need to carry a letter from your vet to show the busybodies who will query it, but other than that low level eventing should be fine if he is happy to gallop.

I had another who simply ran out of air and could not gallop. He was given a tie back which was 100% successful.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i would def look in to having him scoped and having an op (if needed).
I had a 17.3hh dressage WB who had the tie back and only barely made a noise if galloping for a long time (eg when we went on a beach ride). He didnt struggle at all.

my current TB has been hobday'd and still makes a quite noticable noise when galloping but again doesnt struggle, is just noisy.

NB neither of these event, both dressage horses but between them have been to beach rides, XC schooling, to the gallops etc and neither struggled for breath/fitness any more than any other horse that wasnt used to fast work.

 

[montanna]

My last mare evented (BE90/100) before I bought her. When I had her vetted, they brought up the fact that she made a noise in her wind, she was scoped and found to have laryngeal paralysis of the left vocal chord. They advised the fitter she was, the better she would cope (she was event fit at the time) but wasn't advisable to event her without a tie back op. As I wanted her to SJ she was fit for purpose for me so I never bothered.

 

[Honey08]

My friend had a roarer. She did fine SJ and local shows, but it was hard to keep condition on her and, in my opinion, she was struggling. He had a tie back op done (which wasn't too expensive) and she is so much better. Now she would be able to do eventing.

Imagine if you had something blocking your windpipe and you had to run... You might manage it but it wouldn't be nice.

 

[spacefaer]

We had one who was graded 4 out of5 Iin terms of laryngeal paralysis. He was very noisy -you could hear him several fields away. Seemed fine in his work and in himsrlf.

He had a hobday/tie back and is now much brighter, has much more stamina and is much stronger out hunting

He'd obviously made a noise all his life - he was 8 when we got him and had it done. He'd coped fine but never knew how much oxygen he was missing!

 

[khalswitz]

I have a big 17.2hh warmblood who is a roarer. I've never had him scoped and so this is something I would look into so that I have an idea of what I'm dealing with - but does anyone have one/know of one who events?

He is fab dressage and bold SJ and doesn't look at anything XC schooling and I would really love to do some low level unaff ODE's with him but I'm just not sure how viable it is. I use flair strips on him which help to lessen the noise. He isn't particularly loud nowadays anyway as he is fit and he only really gets quite audible when he's stressed. I'm not particularly worried about going out to win as I'm more focused on his other disciplines but I would love to give it a go for fun. I just don't want it to be at his expense!

Thanks.

I had a roarer. There's no way he could have evented prior to his tieback - he practically died after a short gallop on the beach as he couldn't breathe. However post op, he evented as high as he physically could go with a long back and dodgy hocks

I understand your lad isn't as bad - but I think XC is tough enough on fit horses without taking a roarer round. Can you imagine making an asthmatic run sprint hurdles?

 

[quizzie]

You need to identify the cause of the noise, many are due to laryngeal paralysis, but some are not. the prognosis & any possible surgery will need a proper diagnosis, sometimes involving wireless/ridden scoping.

I have a horse with an unusual noise, who grunts/groans his way through the dressage & SJ, but comes back from the XC making no noise at all. The cause was only found using wireless technology, & there is no surgery available....that said, he has just stepped up to Novice BE with no apparent issues.

I suspect people listen to him in the warm ups, & wonder why on earth I have him out eventing....no one has yet asked me!!

 

[Darremi]

You need to identify the cause of the noise, many are due to laryngeal paralysis, but some are not. the prognosis & any possible surgery will need a proper diagnosis, sometimes involving wireless/ridden scoping.

I have a horse with an unusual noise, who grunts/groans his way through the dressage & SJ, but comes back from the XC making no noise at all. The cause was only found using wireless technology, & there is no surgery available....that said, he has just stepped up to Novice BE with no apparent issues.

I suspect people listen to him in the warm ups, & wonder why on earth I have him out eventing....no one has yet asked me!!

What condition was your horse diagnosed with Quizzie?

My horse groans a lot on the flat and jumping too.

 

[quizzie]

Epiglottic retroversion with partial pharyngeal collapse...(you did ask!!).

It seems to be at least partially self-inflicted/stress related, or maybe when he is concentrating hard;, & then,when his canter stride is "in sync" with his breathing XC, it seems to disappear. I think he tenses up & "holds" his tongue up at the back of his throat.

Whether he will have the ability to go at full speed and/or round a 3-day, I really don't know...time will tell. At the moment, I am taking the speed very steady, as he is somewhat over-confident, & I need to ensure he has time to assess the questions. (He is by Master Imp,over 17.2, with VERY long, octopus legs!!).

 

[popsdosh]

Epiglottic retroversion with partial pharyngeal collapse...(you did ask!!).

It seems to be at least partially self-inflicted/stress related, or maybe when he is concentrating hard;, & then,when his canter stride is "in sync" with his breathing XC, it seems to disappear. I think he tenses up & "holds" his tongue up at the back of his throat.

Whether he will have the ability to go at full speed and/or round a 3-day, I really don't know...time will tell. At the moment, I am taking the speed very steady, as he is somewhat over-confident, & I need to ensure he has time to assess the questions. (He is by Master Imp,over 17.2, with VERY long, octopus legs!!).

Try a spoon bit as this will keep the tongue from rising up to high in the mouth they are used quite commonly in racing for horses that gurgle.

 

[quizzie]

Try a spoon bit as this will keep the tongue from rising up to high in the mouth they are used quite commonly in racing for horses that gurgle.

He thought it was " the work of the devil himself "....he is just a little self opinionated/idiosyncratic....one of those horses one works "with", definitely not worth forcing an issue! I just apply the mental earplugs & ignore.

In fact he doesn't actually gurgle, there is no soft palate displacement.

 

[alwaysbroke]

OH evented one for a few years. He was scoped before considering eventing him and we carried a letter from the vet at all times, also put the info on the commentary bit of each entry. Every xc round I could hear fence judges radioing in that the horse was in distress, he wasn't. A vet would usually be at the finish line, and would comment about how 'unstressed' he was. OH started carrying a copy of the vet letter saying horse could event in his medical arm band to produce at the finish.
Horse loved his xc, very pleased that we did event him, but would have to consider it hard before doing it again with another, due to the comments that were made about the noise he made

 

[Darremi]

Epiglottic retroversion with partial pharyngeal collapse...(you did ask!!).

It seems to be at least partially self-inflicted/stress related, or maybe when he is concentrating hard;, & then,when his canter stride is "in sync" with his breathing XC, it seems to disappear. I think he tenses up & "holds" his tongue up at the back of his throat.

Whether he will have the ability to go at full speed and/or round a 3-day, I really don't know...time will tell. At the moment, I am taking the speed very steady, as he is somewhat over-confident, & I need to ensure he has time to assess the questions. (He is by Master Imp,over 17.2, with VERY long, octopus legs!!).

Thanks quizzie.

Had you tried a cross over (grackle) noseband? I know that some racing trainers use this to keep the horse from opening his mouth and retracting its tongue to obstruct the airways.

Though not directly related, a grackle really helps prevent my horse from trying to get his tongue over the bit.

 

[Firewell]

My late horse had laryngeal paralysis and he evented fine at 90/100 level, he SJ to fox and hunted all day. It never bothered him in the slightest but you could hear him coming a mile away he was so noisey! He was an anglo arab so a horse that held his fitness very well.

 

[quizzie]

Thanks quizzie.

Had you tried a cross over (grackle) noseband? I know that some racing trainers use this to keep the horse from opening his mouth and retracting its tongue to obstruct the airways.

Though not directly related, a grackle really helps prevent my horse from trying to get his tongue over the bit.

Yes....no difference.....even tried a bitless....which he hated! Unfortunately I don't think it is that sort of an evasion, more that he almost holds the pharyngeal area a bit closed,as you might when holding your breath!

He never has tried to get his tongue over the bit, doesn't really have an over mobile tongue, actually quite soft to the contact ( until he sees a fence...then " yippee"!)

 

[CrazyMare]

My 22 year old has partial paralysis of the larynx. She has hunted 7 seasons now and it isn't often noticed. She is like the duracell bunny in terms of energy and pulls like a train at times!!!

 

[Goldenstar]

You do need to talk to the vet and find out exactly what's causing the noise , if a simple scope does give you an answer Your practise will probably have a specialist they can refer you to who has one of the new scopes that horse wears when working you get to know exactly what the horse is doing .
I know a roarer that hunts quite happily (he's deafening when he's alongside ) however I saw him make a serious mistake jumping after a busy half hour and I just wondered if he was struggling .
Better safe than sorry , is he insured ?

 

[Primitive Pony]

Just to add, having bought a horse who was a mild roarer - didn't bother me for the level I wanted to work him at, and it got better the fitter he was - consider insurance implications if you decide to call the vets in, ie would you operate within the next year/are you ever likely to sell him? I bought mine with an exclusion on his insurance as it had been scoped but not operated on and this was reflected in his price. I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't be investigated, of course, but do bear in mind the implications longer term if you decide not to have treatment after any potential diagnosis.

 

[Mike007]

Everything is relative. At what level is the horse going to event. The only way I would reccomend is to get a pro to sit on him xc and see what he can offer. There is no point in pushing an honest horse if he cant cope (its a crime in my book) but if he can , and an experienced rider can vouch for this ,then go and have some fun.

 

[cptrayes]

He'd obviously made a noise all his life - he was 8 when we got him and had it done. He'd coped fine but never knew how much oxygen he was missing!

Hi spacefaer, I don't mean to be picky, but just in case someone buys a horse and they start to roar and they think the last owner did something to hide it, it can come on very quickly, and did with one of mine.

For those who don't know, the problem is that the nerve controlling the left hand side of the larynx goes from the brain, down the neck all the way to the heart, turns and comes back up again to the throat. I kid ye not! I have been told that in something like fifty perfect of large horses, that results in them making a noise because the nerve gets damaged.

 

[cptrayes]

Also to add, that if you are insured and decide to have it done, you probably won't then be covered for respiratory tract infections and my experience of only one horse is that he was much more prone to them after having a tie back. But it was life changing for him to be able to breathe, and the operation is routine these days.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Also to add, that if you are insured and decide to have it done, you probably won't then be covered for respiratory tract infections and my experience of only one horse is that he was much more prone to them after having a tie back. But it was life changing for him to be able to breathe, and the operation is routine these days.

thats interesting-the big horse that had the tie back did then get a RT infection that grumbled on for months and months and took an age to clear and left him very *down* for nearly a year.

CS has been hobday'd and *touchwood* no RT problems thus far but i dont know if it being the hobday V the tie back makes a diff?anyone?

 

[Darremi]

Also to add, that if you are insured and decide to have it done, you probably won't then be covered for respiratory tract infections and my experience of only one horse is that he was much more prone to them after having a tie back. But it was life changing for him to be able to breathe, and the operation is routine these days.

I was told something similar. That any horse over 16.2 should be scoped during a vetting because a lot of them have some form of breathing problem.

 

[quizzie]

Tie backs are done for laryngeal paralysis,sometimes one side, occasionally both.....as the name implies, the vocal cord/fold that is paralysed, & therefore waving in the wind in the airway, is tied back to the side of the larynx, thus opening the airway.....but in doing so it also leaves it wide open for bits of debris/ food to entree the trachea/airway, thus causing infections. Normally a combination of the vocal folds & epiglottis protect the airway.
A hobday is an entirely different operation which does not interfere with this mechanism, so shouldn't cause any issues like that.

 

[dieseldog]

This one is doing 4* and must have been OK up until this point.

http://eventingnation.com/home/luckuan-quality-undergoes-tie-back-surgery-following-rolex-fall/

 

[Darremi]

Personally if my horse made a noise at the lower levels and I intended to try to get it to CCI4* I would get it a wind op ASAP.

Tie backs and hobdays are commonplace in the racing industry. Sprinter Sacre and Denman both had wind ops.