Could a 'roarer,' event?

Darremi said:
Personally if my horse made a noise at the lower levels and I intended to try to get it to CCI4* I would get it a wind op ASAP.

Tie backs and hobdays are commonplace in the racing industry. Sprinter Sacre and Denman both had wind ops.
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I very much doubt either the 4* horses or the racehorses made an audible noise. Most are investigated as a result of subtle drops in performance, often at the limits of endurance. For example horses that are fine round 3/4* track of around 10mins but seem to 'die' at the end of a very hilly and long track or one that is 11mins. The racehorses are often the ones travelling well for 2m 4f but the jockey finds the tank empty when pushed in the last furlong, or when they're stepped up to 3 miles. They are almost never 'roarers' and a problem is often not even suspected until the horse is really pushed. In the case of 4* horses it is extremely unlikely that there will have been anything to notice when they were at Novice.

Lots of horses that do actually make a noise cope perfectly well to a certain level - eg. one I knew that was fine, and making times, at BE100. The suspicion is that it may have struggled with the times at Nov but that wasn't an issue as neither the horse nor the jockey had the ability nor inclination to move up. Horses making an audible noise may well be fine at the levels that most people wish to event at, though scoping may be prudent. Static scoping (at rest) is adequate for cases of laryngeal paralysis. Overground endoscopy (whilst galloping) is generally used for the more dynamic airway conditions such as DDSP, aryepiglottic entrapment etc.

For what it's worth I have a horse which makes a mild noise. He has made XC times at BE Nov and is an extremely fast team-chase horse. He has never seemed to struggle and I perceive no problems with his performance so I have done nothing about it.

OP - there is no reason why your horse shouldn't event, at least to a level, but I'd at least get him scoped and graded and have the discussion. If indicated surgery is generally done standing with laser these days and the horse can be back galloping in 5-6 weeks.
 
This thread has made me think about my horse, who roars a bit, but I think I've only noticed it this year, and he has had trouble with fatigue in SJ (has a pole in 2nd round and feels tired) even though he is fit. I always put it down to mental fatigue, but having started eventing him this year, he does roar a little when doing fitness work (cantering) or on the XC course. Before I rush off to the vet, is there anything that I can do to help him with his breathing that is non-invasive? ie nasal strips? Has anyone tried these? I know that it depends if he has anything wrong with him, and if so what it is...but I thought it might be worth trying something less drastic first.

Anyone got any non-invasive remedies which they've had success in relieving the symptoms with? We are just getting up and going eventing, and only at BE100. He is fit and in good condition, but a few of the things that have been mentioned here do seem to ring a little bit of truth with him...

Thanks in advance xx
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
thats interesting-the big horse that had the tie back did then get a RT infection that grumbled on for months and months and took an age to clear and left him very *down* for nearly a year.

CS has been hobday'd and *touchwood* no RT problems thus far but i dont know if it being the hobday V the tie back makes a diff?anyone?
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Yes, definitely, PS. The tie back exposes the trachea to bits of food going down it, but a hobday just scars and tightens loose bits.
 
nuttychestnut said:
A very interesting thread.
What do you class as a 'roarer'?
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The horse makes a roaring noise as it breathes in. Noises on breathing out are normally called high blowing. That's not a problem and personally it's a noise I love :)

Horses that make a lower level of noise are often called whistlers, because they make a noise more like a whistle.
 
Oh thanks!

Mine makes a little 'whicker' noise when he canters on his outwards breath. Pleased to hear it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
 
nuttychestnut said:
Oh thanks!

Mine makes a little 'whicker' noise when he canters on his outwards breath. Pleased to hear it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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That's a high blower, no problem at all. Lots of tbs do it and I really love it :) A horse that does that should pass a vetting with no problem recorded, as long as it's the out breath, not the in.
 
cptrayes said:
That's a high blower, no problem at all. Lots of tbs do it and I really love it :) A horse that does that should pass a vetting with no problem recorded, as long as it's the out breath, not the in.
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Mine does this too when he's really relaxed - makes a soft raspberry/snorting noise when breathing out in the canter work. Like the noise I make when I'm in a huff and I blow out through my bottom lip. I love it too.
 
This is one of those things that before there was something to 'do about it' lots of people (or, more correctly, their horses) just got on with it. Horses did have 'wind ops' but they had to be pretty severely compromised and working at a high level in a speed sport to warrant it.

Which is not to say that horses shouldn't have intervention if they need it but at the lower levels, as Gb says, many horses are not near enough the margins to warrant it. I'd certainly want to try a better fitness regime and possibly management changes first! Lots of horses that make a noise improve markedly with fitness.

Re racehorses, none of the ones I've seen have a tie-back, they've all been diagnosed by unexpectedly poor stamina and scoping. Frankly, I think it's become one of those things to check off and do if there is even marginal concern in some cases - I actually heard a trainer say he'd have all his done if the vet would agree!!

Re the big horse thing, I had an enormous horse to ride who just randomly started to make a noise at 4. The vet said to wait and see if he grew out of it and indeed, he did.

Definitely something to get checked, not necessarily a reason to panic. :)
 
Mine is a roarer, we hunt heavily all winter and he has no issues at all, occasionally he may run out of steam but thats normally up a very steep hill, and he's never the only one to 'conk out'!! I dont know how bad he is re: paralysis but he's 18 now and had no issue so far, I would have no hesitation to event him (if he jumped.. that is a different story!!)
 
Thanks for all of your feedback!

I would only want to do low level stuff, BE90/BE100 at most but really I only wanted to do the odd unaffiliated stuff. He is insured but the op is excluded as the condition was noticed at the vetting. I might look into it though..

For those asking, I used the Flair nasal strips fro my boy XC at the weekend and it really did help in terms of his ability to take in more oxygen and the noise he made was considerably less. The fitter I can get him I imagine the better he will get.

jessjc, I have an OLD video of my horse on the flat that you can just about hear him on. I'll try to work out a way of getting it across to you.


Thanks everyone! I think we might try a hunter trial or something to give it a go without the other elements and see where we go from there :)
 
i have one that does it but i just am aware of what kind of courses i run him on. If a course is too hilly or too long I try and avoid it. he loves his job tho and its never bothered us so far and he loves his ode's
 
So a bit of a change: after thinking about the noise that he makes and what I have read and other bits and pieces of information, I decided to call the vet and see what he says. He came to investigate the noise and said that he is not a roarer (it was not a laryngeal sound) but that it is a weakness in the muscles holding back the tissue in the nostrils, causing them to vibrate and cause the noise on inspiration, which would have been affecting his performance. Although actually I felt like I was phoning the vet to see a healthy horse, and in fact one that has been doing better than ever! He competed in (his first) three BE90/100 events this year and seemed to really take to eventing like a duck to water...

Anyway, he took a blood test and went on his way. A phonecall after lunch and he said that the results of the blood test were interesting. His enzyme (AST) levels were unusualy high. The horse has had a muscle biopsy and I am awaiting the results, although the vet thinks that he has EPSM/PSSM which is essentially chronic tying up (even though he has never noticeably tied up). So sad for him that I have been unknowingly putting him in pain...

Just goes to show that it is worth calling for advice, and following up on your gut feeling. Thought you might be interested! Also means that with a bit of luck, if he does have EPSM, his diet will be changed, exercise regime put in place and he will be better than ever without being in pain. Kind of messes up my plans though...
 
jessjc said:
So a bit of a change: after thinking about the noise that he makes and what I have read and other bits and pieces of information, I decided to call the vet and see what he says. He came to investigate the noise and said that he is not a roarer (it was not a laryngeal sound) but that it is a weakness in the muscles holding back the tissue in the nostrils, causing them to vibrate and cause the noise on inspiration, which would have been affecting his performance. Although actually I felt like I was phoning the vet to see a healthy horse, and in fact one that has been doing better than ever! He competed in (his first) three BE90/100 events this year and seemed to really take to eventing like a duck to water...

Anyway, he took a blood test and went on his way. A phonecall after lunch and he said that the results of the blood test were interesting. His enzyme (AST) levels were unusualy high. The horse has had a muscle biopsy and I am awaiting the results, although the vet thinks that he has EPSM/PSSM which is essentially chronic tying up (even though he has never noticeably tied up). So sad for him that I have been unknowingly putting him in pain...

Just goes to show that it is worth calling for advice, and following up on your gut feeling. Thought you might be interested! Also means that with a bit of luck, if he does have EPSM, his diet will be changed, exercise regime put in place and he will be better than ever without being in pain. Kind of messes up my plans though...
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My horse has EPSM, as does PS's CS (and he competes at inter 1 dressage!). It's far from the end of the world, they just need managing - feed, exercise and turnout help massively.

Be prepared for a feed bill from hell though if your lad is a poor doer - mine is horrendous in winter as, for some reason, everything low starch and sugar and high energy is extortionate!
 
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