Could anyone please explain 'letting the jump come to you'?

[catembi]

After a year off, my horse is back in work & we're in the early stages of jumping again, hurray! However, the same old issue that's dogged me throughout m entire jumping career has resurfaced. My trainer wants me to come into a jump with a placing pole on a steady canter & have soft hands & leave the horse alone. I don't really understand this. If a horse's stride is 12ft long, then (all things being equal), one time in 12 you will meet the fence perfectly, one time in 12 you will be a foot too far away, etc. So one time in 12, you will be correct, & the other eleven times, the horse will have to put in a short one or stand off?

I have heard over & over that if the canter is good enough, you can't be on a wrong stride, but in practise that doesn't work out so well for me. My whole showjumping 'career' has been literally hit & miss for this very reason and I would really like to solve it.

Add in that I am neurodiverse & find it so hard to do a lot of things at once especially at speed, and that I am not great at judging distance!

I should probably give up & get a space hopper...

 

[shortstuff99]

It is pretty much don't look for and therefore don't force a stride. So no holding, hooking or pushing.

Just stay in the same rhythm and pace and go with it, even if it means you are short or long. After a while you do end up getting the right strides as the horse (and you subconsciously) sort it beforehand.

 

[Red-1]

I tend to look up and away from the fence if I am not on a perfect stride. I ride for a compact, bouncy canter. If I look away, whilst riding for a good canter, the horse seems to find a good stride.

I used to feel guilty for that, until Janette Brakewell said she did the same!

 

[catembi]

Thank you - that's useful. So maybe I am over-thinking it & getting worried because it's not coming at all yet, when we've only done two sessions!

 

[catembi]

Oh, I'd forgotten about looking away! That did work for me back in the day when I was Doing Stuff!

 

[angel7]

Well I was never good at jumping so I dont think I'm in any position to say much about how to do it.
What I found over time was up to about 3"3 any sound school master type horse can jump and clear a fence from any where, walk, trot or canter. So you dont need to tell them where to take off from. Just literally point the horse, steady the speed and let the horse jump it himself and he'll sort it out if you dont interefere. Think this is what she means.
Everytime I tried to place the horse at the fence by pushing on or shortening him we would be awkward in the take off and they would loose confidence with me the more I interfered.
Over this height and I feel you need to be able to place them and see the stride more as its too high to clear from the wrong place.
I was able to improve seeing the stride and picking the takeoff point by riding inexperienced horses over tiny crosspoles, I had to indicate to them to take off "now" or they demolished the jumps.
Don't get tied up by the length of the stride, its any length you care to make it. The gap between the fences need to be crossed, you can do it in 6 short strides or 2 long ones if you are fully in control, or let him work it out and its 3 strides and a short if it suits him.
Dont know how helpful this is just rambling thoughts...

 

[angel7]

Ah Shortstuff99 has said this in a much clearer and easier way!

 

[catembi]

Thank you, Angel7... That's exactly the stage that we're at atm - me interfering & making it worse! But it feels 'wrong' to sit there like a lemon & let the train wreck unfold...!

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Just think of keeping a rhythm, don’t look for a stride, focus on getting the horse there in the right place to jump but let the horse sort the striding out.

 

[angel7]

But your not just sitting if you are getting him on the correct leg, leg on, pointing at the middle of the fence and staying soft in the contact.
I also noticed a few horses hated it if I gave the rein too much at take off, think they felt I was dropping them in it and they would bobble and be awkward and struggle to lift. Others liked the freedom and would make a better shape and have more lift through the shoulders.
Experiment with him.

 

[LEC]

The reality is your canter might be 12ft but for each stage of a horses training that 12ft will look very different. On a 4yo it’s long and flat and on an experienced horse it feels balanced and powerful.
I have been training with Cameron Beer and he is actually very helpful on this. The 4yo with the rubbish canter has a placing pole 3 strides out and we trot in and canter over the pole and then you are on a level 3 strides which you can then ride to the fence on. The more experienced 4yo gets a placing pole at 6 strides out which you canter into and this helps me not to fiddle and push the canter out of its rhythm or hold too much to give me a level 6 strides to a fence. This means the guess work is taken out and you are training the horse correctly in the right canter patterns from a young age. I also spend a significant amount of time with 3 cavaletti on a 4 and 4 pattern again for me to make sure I am level on all horses. A lot of the time if you train in a 20x40 you end up killing the canter without realising it. It’s very easy if you are riding to a fence to push the stride pattern out of being correct and horses start to expand in the last 3 strides as we naturally train them to do that.

Feel is something which needs to be trained and this is done through exercises which set you up correctly and teach you what good is. Canter poles on the floor are great for this.

 

[catembi]

Yes I have a 20x40. That's all that would fit!

 

[ycbm]

C please try not to take this the wrong way. I think that will be hard for you but I really have to write this for the sake of the horse.

You are riding a horse which less than one month ago (you posted about a dantrolene trial on August 25th) was, according to what you write about him, a sufferer from serious PSSM who you could only ride in walk for 20 minutes.

It is far, far too early for this horse to be jumping. This is asking for soft tissue injuries. What is your trainer thinking of?

To put this in perspective, I took an off the track TB, laid off for 5 months but fit as a flea before that and no underlying issues. I didn't canter for 6 weeks and after more than 4 months I am now starting to jump him.

I know this post will upset you and I am genuinely sorry for that but somebody needs to say it, I'm afraid.
.

 

[Birker2020]

Remember : you can never be more than half a stride out

 

[EventingMum]

Letting the fence come to you is a way of saying don't chase the horse to a fence IMO. Most horses will adjust themselves to a degree, few will totally depend on a rider entirely to dictate the exact take off point, in fact eventers are encourage to think for themselves to have some self preservation. I often use the "let the fence come to you" phrase when coaching with riders who are too busy adjusting or micromanaging the horse on the approach to a fence. If the stride length is constantly being altered/adjusted, neither the horse or rider will be able to accurately judge the distance to the fence. Many people find the approach and jump flashes by very quickly, leaving them no time to analyse what is happening. The key to correcting this is to slow down the riders thought processes so things aren't rushed or panicked. The way I help my pupils is to turn to an easy fence and imagine it is going to take forever to reach the fence ie the fence is coming towards you very slowly - not actually slowly the canter but just slowing your mind down so your thoughts are in the moment, not racing ahead. Being aware of your breathing all the way to the fence can really help. That way you can analyse and make one quiet adjustment rather than panicking and doing too much which will confuse and distract the horse. I'm not sure I've explained that clearly but years ago I read a really good article on this, unfortunately I can't find it now, it may have been by Mary Wanless, it really helped me although I don't really "get" a lot of her stuff.

 

[catembi]

We have mostly been doing walking and trotting over raised poles to help with all sorts of things, with a few jumps at the end to finish. Cross poles, not oxers at 1 m 60. A cross pole at that height is barely more than a slightly elevated canter stride.

The only way to stop snarky comments is to stop posting about my horse altogether, which is what I will now do. I will have literally no-one to discuss things with from this point onwards as mine are at home and I have no horsey friends.

 

[ycbm]

We have mostly been doing walking and trotting over raised poles to help with all sorts of things, with a few jumps at the end to finish. Cross poles, not oxers at 1 m 60. A cross pole at that height is barely more than a slightly elevated canter stride.

The only way to stop snarky comments is to stop posting about my horse altogether, which is what I will now do. I will have literally no-one to discuss things with from this point onwards as mine are at home and I have no horsey friends.

I'm very sorry you feel I am being snarky but it my heartfelt belief that you are asking this horse to do too much to soon and setting yourself up for more disappointment.

Nobody would be more pleased for you than me if I am wrong.
.

 

[JBM]

We have mostly been doing walking and trotting over raised poles to help with all sorts of things, with a few jumps at the end to finish. Cross poles, not oxers at 1 m 60. A cross pole at that height is barely more than a slightly elevated canter stride.

The only way to stop snarky comments is to stop posting about my horse altogether, which is what I will now do. I will have literally no-one to discuss things with from this point onwards as mine are at home and I have no horsey friends.

If you ever want to ask a question judgement free you can pm me and I’ll do my best to help

I know it can be hard posting on this forum sometimes with some replies given but please don’t stop asking questions

 

[YourValentine]

Horses are amazing jumpers and we generally just handicap them, there was an amazing example of what they can do by themselves at the Team Chase today.

So as long as you have a decent canter, and don't push/pull/panic in the last few strides they will get to and over the fence. Maybe not always on the "perfect" (as defined by us) spot but they will know where they can/can't clear a fence from.

This is the idea of letting the fence come to you. Have the right canter and let them figure the rest out. They are always going to have a better eye for a distance.

They will make mistakes occasionally, but the more you leave it up to them the more they'll learn to think for themselves.

 

[LEC]

I hate that attitude about leaving it to the horse. It works up to 90cm fine but I have spent the weekend watching countless people who ride that way now want to step up and their riding is chronically erratic and the horse who is used to going how they want but often having poles is now struggling. A horse that often chips in is a classic example of this. What happens is they teach themselves to reduce the stride length and get a bit stuffy in order to give themselves the flexibility to shorten and that will work fine at 90. It won’t work at 1m +.

The reason we are sold this is firstly, because actually teaching riders to interfere less is helpful when they lack balance, skill and have a tolerant horse etc and secondly getting adults to develop their eye is time consuming and boring and they won’t do it.

Your team chasing example isn’t a great one as firstly speed is helpful for the horse especially over hedges. Nobody can miss at a hedge, just go fast enough. Which is fine when it’s a single hedge in open country and you don’t have another fence for 400m. In fact I have to remind myself at big hedges not to look for a stride and to keep coming and not worry as they are atypical in what we do normally jumping.

 

[humblepie]

I am no guru but many years ago I had a lesson with a top show jumper who was leave it to the horse to sort itself out - horse whacked front pole and was off for a while with fat leg. She was an ex hurdler who jumped Foxhunter and Grade C, with me not leaving it to her. She probably isn't the best example as we had an unorthodox style but it worked. I probably did "fiddle" far too much into a fence and do understand the approach of letting the horse sort it out but I sometimes cringe watching when I can see that the stride is wrong and horse is just left there and doesn't sort it out.

 

[LEC]

But I doubt you sat there and did nothing. That’s the issue. In between sitting there and letting the horse take care of the jump is a HUGE amount of training, reaction from the rider, gears in the canter, rideability, etc Take my current 4yo if I sat and did nothing I suspect we would run out at everything or be as wriggly as a snake,
Drop to trot, speed up in the canter etc. my older horse, if you did nothing would expand the stride, be crooked, drift, come down related distances losing out strides as it’s easy for her to do that or start losing the quality of the jump. Otherwise a 4yo would be able to go round 1.10m courses from the day they could canter.
I know we want to make riding and jumping simple as it suits our needs but the reality is the good people are good as it’s their job and they have had years of training. Just like I am good at my job at work because I have spent countless years doing it daily for 8 hours a day and building on the skills.

The key to doing well is having really good training and following a system. That to me is where so many people fall down. They don’t have a system and invest in one. They see lots of different trainers and get confused. In fact I had this exact conversation yesterday with one rider who is a clinical psychologist and very bright but there was a huge separation in the way she trained riding. She even admitted one trainer would say something which might work that day and another would say something else so she was confused, erratic in her riding and had no solid basics to fall back on.

 

[shortstuff99]

On that topic Andrew Nicholson had a quote the other day telling a student that XC is jumping everything between the flags and SJ is leaving the poles up so don't complicate it.

 

[LEC]

On that topic Andrew Nicholson had a quote the other day telling a student that XC is jumping everything between the flags and SJ is leaving the poles up so don't complicate it.

Which is fine if your horse goes between the flags and leaves the poles up…. But having attended Andrew training demos there is a huge amount of work which goes in along with his amazing riding ability. Not many people can start a 5yo at novice, and even Andrew started doing 100 as novices were no longer straightforward enough as the first level to get a horse going on.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think 'let the fences come to you' is a useful way of helping people not chase into a fence or get ahead of the movement or interfere too much. I don't think it necessarily means never try to see a stride.
As with any training advice, what precisely it means for any given partnership can vary. So if soneone says that to you in a lesson, just ask what they meab. They will probably have a correction or change in mind which prompted them to say it.

But in general it is a useful way of focusing on maintaining a quality canter and good rhythm. I think you need to focus on plenty of other things first before you start thinking about the strides.

- Get a good canter quality
- Ride good lines, looking well ahead
- Maintain rhythm
- Stay in balance and move with the horse.

And only when that is all hunky dory, start thinking about adjusting strides on the way into a fence. By which time a lot of that is becoming instinctive as you just wait a beat or press foward very slightly. Or unncessary as the horse can see the stride anyway if you set him up right.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

This is why I ride cross country so much better.. show jumping I totally over think it, hold to much, try and see a stride and get obsessed with it

I’m glad your horse is going so well OP but do see YCBM point. I can imagine you’re keen and excited to kick on. A month back into work I personally wouldn’t be having lessons yet or jumping, but you know him best.

I remember when the hunters coming back into work use to be walk for 6 weeks, followed by gradually adding trot, followed by canter. I did the same when my mare had 2 months off.

Just really want it to go right for you with all the bad luck.

 

[SEL]

A lot of the professionals who use that phrase do so, so many tiny adjustments almost subconsciously that they probably really do think they are letting the jump just come to them but actually the brain / muscle memory is engrained whereas us normal people have to work a lot harder.

I only jump trip hazards these days but the phrase the first time I'd heard 'let the jump come to you' and 'don't interfere' was when I was a guinea pig for a trainee BHS instructor some years ago. I was taught throughout my teens and 20s to change strides, work different angles, come in at different speeds etc etc so although I'm not sure her intention as an instructor was for me to sit there are do nothing, that was how it came across.

I sort of understood what she meant - in terms of once the horse is committed then it doesn't need me faffing around - but equally we were jumping 3ft grids and personally if I come off a corner and its obvious the stride isn't right then I want to shorten / lengthen. I also had a different opinion at times to the horse I was on at what speed we should be going down the grid and 'letting the jump come to you' was a bit hair raising until I defaulted to my normal riding style.

OP its worth videoing yourself if you can. I was all over the place jumping my young cob the other week and watching back I have to accept the fact that he needs to be going a bit faster and be a bit unbalanced at the moment and I really do just need to look over the jump and let him sort himself out. If your horse is coming in at a good steady canter and the jump is small then the instructor may just be wanting you to take it almost as part of the canter stride which the placing pole will help with - but looking at videos is helpful

 

[YourValentine]

I hate that attitude about leaving it to the horse. It works up to 90cm fine but I have spent the weekend watching countless people who ride that way now want to step up and their riding is chronically erratic and the horse who is used to going how they want but often having poles is now struggling. A horse that often chips in is a classic example of this. What happens is they teach themselves to reduce the stride length and get a bit stuffy in order to give themselves the flexibility to shorten and that will work fine at 90. It won’t work at 1m +.

The reason we are sold this is firstly, because actually teaching riders to interfere less is helpful when they lack balance, skill and have a tolerant horse etc and secondly getting adults to develop their eye is time consuming and boring and they won’t do it.

Your team chasing example isn’t a great one as firstly speed is helpful for the horse especially over hedges. Nobody can miss at a hedge, just go fast enough. Which is fine when it’s a single hedge in open country and you don’t have another fence for 400m. In fact I have to remind myself at big hedges not to look for a stride and to keep coming and not worry as they are atypical in what we do normally jumping.

I agree, but was trying to answer the OPs question and not write an essay with endless caveats.

Obviously SJing and technical XC fences we need to have more input as it not just simple 1 off fence on a straight line. But there is a balance between micro-managing every stride and completely abanoning the horse.

But, I think sometimes we forget horse can jump without us and out of nerves as riders at times we try and do too much. At a low level and simple fences it's OK to trust the horse to do some of the thinking/sorting out. Because they can.

(Though there is always that 1 example that seems to have no idea where its feet are and will fall flat on its face if not hand held every second, because horses... .)

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I agree, but was trying to answer the OPs question and not write an essay with endless caveats.

Obviously SJing and technical XC fences we need to have more input as it not just simple 1 off fence on a straight line. But there is a balance between micro-managing every stride and completely abanoning the horse.

Also you can't really effectively make those subtle adjustments if you try too hard - ie micro-manage. Over-thinking, fiddling, pull/push all the way in. I think instructors are basically saying relax and let it happen. Good riding needs feel and awareness. Start with the feel of the canter. Then the awareness of the line. Then feel & awareness of rhythm. And you will make small adjustments to maintain rhythm. THen you can start seeing the stride just by paying attention to it. (Not by trying to find it). And over time you naturally find the right stride without over-thinking it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Remember : you can never be more than half a stride out

This right except it can be Three quarters and that never nice .

Op one thing I did a lot when I was doing stuff is to put a plank on the ground and then another random plank further down the school.
The distance does not matter .
You canter between the two and count the strides you find the easy number where you just meet the pole comfortably say it’s it’s four strides next time ride a little more energy into the canter and a longer stride and do three and then back to first number then add another stride in and do five on a young horse you will need to get them able to canter easily to one pole first out of slightly different canters .It helps sometimes to have a person on the ground to adjust the second pole to the easy distance for a young or weak horse .
This is an exercise that helps you develop the feel for the best canter you need for jumping one that’s got the energy and balance for the horse to be able to adjust its stride .
The horse develops better eye to hoof coordination and begins to learn about the roll of impulsion in making life easy .
Planks are best because they don’t roll if it goes wrong .

This a great thing to do when you have been away from jumping a while .