Could charcoal have an impact in wormers effectiveness?

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shadowboy

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It's an odd question but 4 weeks ago yesterday I wormed my boy with equest pramox. He's on a field I poo pick religiously. I had a lesson today in the school and when he poo'd the instructor picked it up off the track and found a live redworm which is one of the reasons id used Pramox as it contains moxidectin which is licensed for use with red worms. He took a 420kg dose - weigh tape stated 390kg. The only thing we can think of is that perhaps the charcoal is working too effectively? Pramox currently has no noted resistance and a 13 week dosing period.
 
No "noted" resistance...

You need to now call the company and inform them. No one informs them when it doesn't work so there is no evidence. You clearly have some.

No idea about charcoal I'm afraid but call your vet immediately.
 
Yes when we tried charcoal on my TB the vet told us that we must not feed it when the horse was recieveing any medication .
 
Goldenstar said:
Yes when we tried charcoal on my TB the vet told us that we must not feed it when the horse was recieveing any medication .
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thank you! thats really interesting that it has the capacity to work so effectively that it prevents the uptake of wormers!

I will ring the company to see when it is safe to give another dose - and will ensure I dont feed charcoal for a few days! :)
 
I have a friend who works in human toxicolgy, she advised me that short term use of charcoal for one of mine was ok, to remove toxins as short course, but not to feed it as an ongoing supplement.
 
unbalanced said:
So if my pony is on peroglide, can I give charcoal if it's at a different time of day or not?

OP - yuck!
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I think there was something on the tub about thinking back I did not give for long as speaking to my brother who is a doctor I became concerned it would interfer with the uptake of his vits and minerals .
I think I would ask your vet it may be if you give charcoal in the morning and the drug in the evening it's ok.
The more I read about it the less I thought it was a good idea to feed it.
 
When my mare who had laminitis was on boxrest I gave her Danilon morning and evening and all her 'detox' supplements like the charcoal and dandelion root, nettles and Hawthorne tips at lunchtime to ensure that these did not affect the NSAIDs.

My hebalist recommended allowing 3 to 4 hours either side of her meds with teh detox.

I would recommend sending off for a wormcount to see exactly how bad your horse's worm burden is too.
 
Interesting as I have used it at worming time on a horse that reacted to wormers and went footy and it helped.

Luckily said horse always had clear worm counts and there was some unnecessary worming going on to fit in with a livery yard routine.
 
Encysted redworm won't show up in a worm count until they emerge so the worm count would need to be timed effectively.

Interesting regarding the charcoal as it should in theory only remove 'toxins' not beneficial nutrients. Hmm I shall have to do more research....
 
so, as it came out it may not have been totally 'live' iyswim, I can't remember on moxidectin but some wormers do have more of a paralysing (so they detach and come out) rather than a killing affect too.

I definitely wouldn't use charcoal with wormers though.

eta, yes MLs of which moxidectin is one do cause flaccid paralysis and then death.
 
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criso said:
Yes but if you have a horse that is worm counting clear several times a year over 5 years then it's safe to assume that there is probably not a signficant burden.
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can we add a probably to that, given the inherrent problems with worm counts?
 
ester said:
can we add a probably to that, given the inherrent problems with worm counts?
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Which problems, regular counts over years will give you a good idea.

Now I'm away from that environment, I still do tapeworm and encysted redworm at the appropriate time and now use products that my sensitive soul can cope with and Restore or L94 at worming time.
 
mostly the sampling techniques used by the owners collecting them/small amount of sample tested/aggregation in samples/recommended sampling periods by the counters

I actually asked our top worm bod a similar question and he would only go with probably ;)
 
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I feed my TB a teaspoon of activated charcoal in his evening feed but it does state very clearly on the feeding instructions to allow 12 hours between feeding and any medications as it 'may reduce the effectiveness' so I imagine that would apply to any wormers you give.
 
Very interesting! My pot doesn't mention this anywhere but thinking about it I wormed him at 6pm and he had his feed with charcoal in at 6am so half a day apart. Now major question- I add prohoof to his feed with the charcoal- does the charcoal affect the pro hoof / cancel it out? If so I may well have to stop feeding charcoal!!
 
Well personally I would never stop feeding the activated charcoal as it keeps my TB colic free, stops cribbing and means he never gets gassy + copes with change of grazing etc with no problems. Cant you just do what I do and give 2 small feeds a day 12 hours apart?
 
I could but the wormer and charcoal were also 12 hours apart and the wormer failed to work suggesting the charcoal was still having an impact?
 
I doubt it to be honest...far more likely that the wormer didnt work. Mine have all been wormed several times since starting on the charcoal with no ill effects at all.
 
It is harder for wormers to kill encysted redworm. At this time of year encysted small redworm emerge from the gut wall. It is possible that it avoided the worming while encysted and has emerged in the 4 weeks since worming, or that it's larvae were on the pasture and were ingested after worming.

ALL worming chemicals have reported resistance.
 
I didn't see it as I was riding but my instructor poked it with the poo scoop end and said it moved so was alive- I trust her judgement ;)
 
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