Could cry - she's got laminitis again :(

0ldmare

0ldmare

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I just cant believe it :( . As some of you will know it took 3 long months to get my old mare sound after her bout of cushings induced laminitis. 3 long months. It was all quite touch and go at times, but she came 100% sound in the end.

She has been turned out during the day for the last month and all hunky dory. The grass is rubbish, well grazed, well knackered by snow/ice etc.

And then this morning I go to lead her out of her stable and she's absolutely flippin hobbling :eek: :eek:

I just dont know what to do. If she cant cope with the grass at this moment in time what hope is there?
 
Frosty grass is as bad as spring grass.

To protect itself from the cold, the grass produces sugar to use as antifreeze.

There is a yahoo discussion group on cushings hosted by Jackie Taylor of Metabolic Horse, it's known to be quite a brainstorm of info. I'd check it out.

Sorry for your mare.
 
is she on any medication? we have just had our girl diagnosed with cushings and laminitis shes nearly 9 months in foal it came on really suddenly just over a week ago I couldnt believe it! she was lying down and just would not get out of bed! I was so distressed when the vet said she had lami i thought my god in all the years i have owned horses i have never given a horses that! 47 years.
she has only been on haylage as well no hard feed shes a good doer, mum of three, she is now on pergolide and has shown more ease, is the word I would use, shes in pain and we have been battling all week to keep her on her feet everytime I go in to her she starts groaning and just throws her head to look at her sides its harrowing she has to improve I keep telling her what the Vet said if she dosent we will have to PTS, for the last days she has refused her bute so tonight we used a synringe and that worked well.
I have had her 6 years this year and life just wouldnt be the same with out her but I will not let her suffer if this doesnt improve soon.
I had not realised the signs creeping up on her the wet bed the lack of losing her coat the eyes getting puffy things I just ailed to see.
good luck with your girl I do hope she improves for both your sakes

PS our girl has been in a grass free area since the before the snow Nov so it has nothing to do with grass if you look at the Laminitis Trusts web site they say its fairly inevitable.
 
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I am so sorry to hear this. I know how heartbreaking laminitis is, and how hard it is to keep it at bay. I hope your mare makes a full recovery again.
Does your mare have a chaff based breakfast before being turned out? Sorry if its a silly question, but I had always heard that a good tummy full of chaff before grazing can help buffer the tummy and stop too much imbalance in the gut. The grass has apparently been a real problem with laminitics with all the frosts and snow. Fingers crossed for your mare x
 
I just want to send you some big hugs. I fear lami in my mare so much - never had it but a continual battle - i juggle turning her out ( she stresses mega mega if kept in out of her routine) diet etc and just pray :( give your little lass a hug from me xxxx
 
Angrovestud I'm so sorry to hear about your mare. Its devastating isnt it. I was just like you - laminitis is NOT something my horses get. Well how wrong could I be! Yes mine is on Pergolide, much good its done her.

I've been so careful re the frosty grass. She's been turned out in the school until the frost has gone (although I did just chuck her out in the field when it was snowy - after all she couldnt find any grass so it seemed a bit pointless doing anything else!)

But its not been frosty for the last few days - its piddled with rain and been thoroughly miserable but definitely NO frost, so I dont think it can be that.

She's absolutely crocked. But the hunt is coming nearby tomorrow so I'm rather expecting a brief but miraculous recovery.....
 
I am so sorry to hear your mare has laminitis again. Shame on your vets for not advising you that turnout on grass at this time of year is very problematic (because of sugar retention in the leaves when it is very cold).

Other poster with newly lami. Haylage is a known culprit in inducing laminitis, LGL etc. Doesn't happen to all, but it happens a lot. I've seen several horses with haylage induced lami this week. The bagged haylage recommended by the laminitic trust is also problematic so I would not feed to a horse which has any lami symptoms or problems with it's hind gut. It may be low sugar, but it is still a fermented product.
 
0ldmare said:
Angrovestud I'm so sorry to hear about your mare. Its devastating isnt it. I was just like you - laminitis is NOT something my horses get. Well how wrong could I be! Yes mine is on Pergolide, much good its done her.

I've been so careful re the frosty grass. She's been turned out in the school until the frost has gone (although I did just chuck her out in the field when it was snowy - after all she couldnt find any grass so it seemed a bit pointless doing anything else!)

But its not been frosty for the last few days - its piddled with rain and been thoroughly miserable but definitely NO frost, so I dont think it can be that.

She's absolutely crocked. But the hunt is coming nearby tomorrow so I'm rather expecting a brief but miraculous recovery.....
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Thanks Oldmare so sorry to hear about your mare, the small fatty patch she aquired 3 years ago has almost gone and she only been on Pergolide 6 days now the bad dryer by a long way, so I am keeping my fingers crossed she met me this morning on her legs I was so impressed with her shes a battled hardend case like me she and I are full of bloody tumors we go together I reccon!
shes funny though the big groaning is saved for when I go in her stable if I sneak up she quiet.
my vet said to swap her on to hay so we did straight away, how long has your mare been on pergolide? and is it helping?
the vet said the mare will get lami now every year with her cushings
 
Poor you - hope you can get her better too.

For everyone who has suggested the frost / cold is an issue - I'm also in Kent and it really hasn't been either frosty or cold for the past week so don't imagine thats the cause? Its about 10 degrees where we are and I've been turning out every morning at 7am in just a jumper its that mild! xx
 
My pony also suffers from Cushing's induced laminitis - he had it in 08-09 and 09-10. Both times just after Christmas - and my horses are yarded with ad-lib hay over the winter.

The first year, we got him tested and found he had Cushings. We put him onto Pergolide immediately and managed him carefully over the summer. He didn't show any signs and we thought we were ok.

The second year, he got it again - which was when it clicked that it was nothing to do with what he ate, but simply down to the Cushings.

So this year, he has had an SAD light up in his stable to fool his system into thinking that the days are longer. He is also barefoot, as his hoofs were a mess after the second lami attack, and he has been wearing hoof boots. Touchwood, so far this year he has not had an attack.

I'm not sure really how much the SAD light helped - but at £50 it was worth a try. He comes in just before it gets dark and has the light on until evening stables, so 2-3 hours of extra light per day.

I think the hoof boots helped more - his feet have been kept warmer and he has not had ice ball up in his feet, and I'm sure that this has made a major difference to him.

I hope you can find something that works for your horse :)
 
I agree, I really don't think its frosty grass that's caused it, as you say we haven't had any frosty mornings for a while here is kent

Its baffling, depressing and demoralising. I'm trying to work out in my head whether to call it a day or have one final effort to get her sound again. I think she's going to get one more chance but I don't want to keep putting her through this level of pain.
 
i thought any very 'stressed' grass produced lots of fructans and could cause laminitis? after being frozen, drenched, snowed on etc, my grass is pretty stressed...
so sorry to hear that she's got it again, for both your sakes, but if you get her over it again, i think i'd keep her off stressed grass always, just in case. :( :(
 
my mare has been off grass since Nov 22nd she has had no frosted snowed or otherwise cold grass, it is all down to cushings she was wobbly a bit stiff and what I thought sore footed last year I put that down to wet conditions which is why she is yarded so to speak but she is much worse this year new years eve she could bearly get up it took us three hours to get her up.
06 she still had the young one on her but she was what i call stiff then and only for a month dec jan now thinking about it darkest days when no Dopimine is being made.
07/08 she was similar but was better when she got in the field but walked with a shorter stride and again stiff we put this down to being heavy in foal easily done then 08 09 same then she lost her foal 2 weeks from her due date still birth and the vet and i now think the cushings was why the filly was so small as if she hadnt been fed the same as the other foals shes had.
we will see how she goes on the meds. the light idea might be good to try
 
Oldmare I am so sorry to hear this. I know how you have agonised, and battled to get her right.
Fingers crossed for you that this is just a blip.
 
My mare had laminitis last year and it took 5 long months before she was sound, its awful I know and I really feel for you. I have stuck to feeding my mare 1.5% of her bodyweight, weigh and soak hay in small nets and hang them at different times of the day.

I've heard that short stressed grass can be one of the causes and my paddock is like this as I have no option other than to move yards. I make sure my mare has a scoop of Happy Hoof and a small soaked haynet before I turn her out, even then she is only out for 4hours without her muzzle - cant use muzzle at the moment as grass is too short. My farrier told me not to turn my mare out in the snow as the snow compacting in their feet when they are laminitic can be a culprit.

It's a real battle and nothing seems easy anymore, there always seems to be a 'what if' I do hope she gets better soon x
 
0ldmare said:
I agree, I really don't think its frosty grass that's caused it, as you say we haven't had any frosty mornings for a while here is kent

Its baffling, depressing and demoralising. I'm trying to work out in my head whether to call it a day or have one final effort to get her sound again. I think she's going to get one more chance but I don't want to keep putting her through this level of pain.
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Very wise but so hard when it's a long loved friend. Iv followed your threads and know how much you have been through and was so pleased when she got better because at times I just thought " let her go"
what a bloody shame this has happened. Just out off interest do u use a grazing muzzle? My little IR chap has a greenguard and isn't allowed out on any grass without it on and has kept him going. No lammi for neally 2 yrs now . Even now he's out in his greenguard. Just a thought as to whether it would help. I wish you all the best and keep us informed x
 
So sorry to read this oldmare.:( Soaked rinsed hay is what my pony is still getting and she is still ok after her laminitis bout caused by me trying to switch her onto haylage.
Since her first bout three years ago she has had very little access to grass and lives with her mates in a large varied yard. This latest bout has been my final lesson (sadly she suffered for it) that she will have to remain on soaked hay for life unless I can source a reliable source of tested low sugar hay which is unlikely.

I do urge you to join Jackie JA Taylors group suggested above especially as your mare has Cushings, you'll get advice on mineral balance aswell which can be crucial for some horses.

I've put this link up before but have a look at the articles, some are on sugars in grass and hay. http://www.safergrass.org/
 
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My pony has got laminitis again too...and we had been doing so well, till it snowed and froze and I couldn't soak his hay. Our vet thinks it was a combination of that and snow balling up in his feet when I turned him out briefly. I'm thinking about hoof boots; what sort does everyone use/recommend? Sending best wishes to everyone struggling with this nightmare.
 
What a tragedy. Sometimes, regardless of what you do, the laminitis returns. Up the Pergolide is my advice, and cross your fingers. And maybe try the SAD light. It's one thing I would like to have tried, but never did.
 
As others have said, chances are this is irrespective of grass. When the pituitary causes the over-production of cortisol, blood vessels constrict, causing laminitis symptoms. It's hormonal.

Is there any chance the vet can up the prescription dose for the Pergolide? A lot of people in the U.S apparently use Chaste Berry Extract in addition/instead of pergolide. Could you research that? It's available as Hormonise in tack shops and marketed for moody mares, but works on the pituitary, so works for Cushingoid horses, too. Hope she's better soon. x
 
Some interesting thoughts on here as my old mare who has had cushings for years has just gone lame again with lami. Like many on here if I keep her in she gets depressed, if I turn her out she can hardly walk and the grass is stressed so you worry thats the cause.
I think that its important to remember that the cushings is going to affect the hormonal system and therefore lots of factors can be an issue so it really is trial and error.
I'll be keeping mine in for a few days now to see if she improves but I'm going to go and buy some agnus castus/chaste berries or maybe one of the other products mentioned as trying these can surely do no harm and like most folks you'd rather try something than see them in pain.
 
i know how you feel my old mare is currently suffering with lami (worse bout shes ever had). She was diagnosed with cushings 18 months ago and is on pergolide and i manage her diet and exercise. Unfortunatly lami with cushings is caused by the hormone changes and ive found the only thing you can do is up her dose of pergolide. I have had to do this a few times. She stays fine for about 6 months then the cushing symptoms appear again so have to up the dose and then shes fine again for a while.
I know there will be a time when enough is enough but while i know i can keep her comfortable i will.
My mares had lami 4 times in two years but she always bounces back pretty quickly (this time is taking a bit longer)
All you can do is try for them plently of painkillers and anti inflamatories and sedalin, soft surface for them to stand on, up her dose of pergolide and just monitor her.
You know your horse at the end of the day and she will let you know when she has had enough
Since she hasnt been diagnosed with cushings for that long i wouldnt give up just yet. And have a play about with the pergolide until you get it right
good luck
 
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