Could it be LGL and not navicular?

[Daisy2]

Horse consistently lame every spring, everytime we get the vet out, xrays, nerve blocks, at one point he was not lame on the leg that showed a possible cyst on the bone and we went on to have a great year despite vet saying he had navicular bute and ride, anyway this year has been a wash out and now lame on the leg with the cyst, vet xrayed and said yep thats the problem, I said yes well that has been there for a long time and no problems hacking out 4/5 times a week. He said prognosis is poor end of story. Anyway I have done my own thing I am treating him for LGL and he has shown amazing improvement. Firstly he has a gworth ring quite prominent which coincides with the onset of his lameness, vet never mentioned it, plus he had a bulging coronet band, so although he is always muzzled he is now only allowed the poor end of the field and adlib 12hr soaked hay overnight, well now he is walking normal no more lifting his leg, not sure if he is lame in trot because I have not tried him (too scared) and the bulge in his coronet band is now smooth. He is bare foot and always has been. Cookies for you folk to get this far and your thoughts please,,, am I clutching at straws

 

[be positive]

If treating him as a laminitic is working for you keep it up, very slight lgl will present with few real symptoms so a vet may not suggest it as a possibility, The ring on his foot, re-occurrence every spring as the grass comes through would be enough for me to think you are correct, get his weight down, get him as fit as you can so you can start next year with a strict regime and try and avoid him getting rich spring grass.
Your farrier/ trimmer would be the best person to ask for more advice, they deal with feet all the time and mine often comments about how they are doing just by the growth of the feet.

Be brave and try a trot on a soft surface to see how he is, my laminitic pony is now being prepared for his first competition in 2 years having been given a very poor prognosis, the more work he is doing the better for keeping laminitis away long term.

 

[Daisy2]

Thanks for that, I had the farrier out today actually and he showed me bruising on the sole of the foot that is not lame, I said he may be compensating with the good leg hence the bruise or he could really have lami and only bruising in one foot, I cannot see how else he could get the bruise because he is on very soft ground and has not been out since going lame nearly 4mths. The bruising is around the the tip of the frog (Apex), not quite crescent shaped. It does make me wonder how many horses are misdiagnosed, unless you have the full works ie MRI etc, diagnosing lameness is not easy or precise and one cannot rely on the vets alone.

 

[cptrayes]

Trimmer Lucy Priory had the same mixup with her horse. It was diagnosed as navicular and had laminitis. The answer to your question is a big YES.

The next time your vet writes him off on the basis of a bone cyst on xray, ask him what proportion of 100 sound horses will have navicular bone changes. I have been told many times that the answer to that question is around half. Xrays of the navicular bone are notoriously inaccurate at predicting lameness.

If you are treating your horse as a laminitic and it is getting better, then the overwhelming probability is that it is a laminitic


The bruise you describe is absolutely typical, and your farrier really should know this, of a laminitic episode around 3 months previously. It's very well documented - crescent bruise around the point of the frog (actually, under the rim of the pedal bone). It is not a bruise from outside interference, it's old blood from the pedal bone pressing on the inflamed solar corium. By the time it shows, it's of no consequence and can safely be ignored.

 

[cptrayes]

ps one-footed lameness from laminitis is not uncommon. I call it the "signature" foot, the one that always goes first. He's probably lame in both (hence the mark in the other one) but one much worse than the other. If you nerve blocked the lamer one, it would be likely that he would show lame in the "sound" bruised one.


pps If your horse was already muzzled and his weight under control, consider testing him for Cushings and for Insulin Resistance if you get any more footiness problems.

 

[Madam_max]

Im very interested in this as my horse had a complete bone scan and x-rays for behavioural issues and the only thing they could find was a bone cyst in right hind navicular. He has never been lame? I wonder how many horses that have such thorough investigation would have abnormalities in their feet. He had an MRI also. This was over a year ago and is still sound.

 

[Daisy2]

Thanks for the advice, I will keep you updated on how we are doing. I am going to have to start soaking the hay a lot earlier for coming years, I do this throughout the summer and they are in 12hrs and out 12hrs muzzled from around March. The rest of the year they have free range unmuzzled. Marley is over weight and I have really tried everything to keep his weight down, hacking, no extra food, muzzles, soaked hay, strip grazed, bare paddock, unrugged even during the -20 degrees we had, no extra hay over the winter, unless consistently covered with snow etc Any other tips are welcome.

 

[TwoStroke]

I think that horses that really won't lose weight often have an underlying metabolic disorder. It may be worth doing as cptrayes says and testing for IR and cushing's.

 

[cptrayes]

Im very interested in this as my horse had a complete bone scan and x-rays for behavioural issues and the only thing they could find was a bone cyst in right hind navicular. He has never been lame? I wonder how many horses that have such thorough investigation would have abnormalities in their feet. He had an MRI also. This was over a year ago and is still sound.

The first horse I had diagnosed with navicular was in a 60 horse livery yard and my vet told me no-one understood why, but 50% of the horses in the yard would have xrays equally bad and be sound. I've heard the same statistic many times in the 25 years since then. Of course we now have MRI and have found that it is very rare that there is no soft tissue damage in a lame horse, which must surely lead to the conclusion that it is the soft tissue damage causing the lameness, not the bone changes which are also present in 50% of sound horses.

And yet vets continue to write off lamintic horses on the basis of xrays as horses with degenerative and incurable (neither true) navicular cases.



OP if you have struggled that much with your boy's weight then a Cushings and an IR test are the way to go if further control of his diet still leaves him footie. There are some good drugs now to help with either condition.

 

[Lancelot]

Daisy2, from what you've said I would be confident LGL was, at the very least, an issue!

In 2011 my horse suffered yet another episode of lameness. This was investigated with x-rays which showed him to have a bony spur above the nav bursa, some ringbone & arthritis and so began the myriad of conventional treatments for those conditions. Nothing worked and off he went to Rockley for barefoot rehab. He came home from there sound & in work.

This year the early warning signs barefoot living affords, along with plenty of advice & support, made me finally realise that his problems are, at the very least, aggravated by grass. By resticting grass & using boots I've kept him sound and in work all summer )

I have also learnt that, for my chap, there is more than 1 thing going on. For instance, when he has too much grass and his feet get sore, his landing changes. He changes from a heel first, level landing to a flat, lateral landing. This surely aggravates (maybe years ago even actually caused??!) any weaknesses within the foot.
Could this be happening with your horse? Could soreness from grass be changing his landing & loading in such a way that the cyst is aggravated?

 

[LucyPriory]

OP - I work on a number of 'navicular' horses. Whether or not the navicular bony changes and/or soft tissue damage are causing a problem or are going to cause a problem is a moot point.

What is true in every case on my books is that if they are treated as LGL they become more sound. Sometimes in a truly gobsmacking (technical term........) b. brilliant way

Also many if not all of them have thrush and contracted heels. When this is sorted they also become more sound, often dramatically, but never as gobsmackingly as when treated as LGL.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My lami was the same as you with weight not coming off bi matter what we did......turnt out he has ems.

Def get bloods done.