Could join up be the answer?

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xRomi&Darcy4Evax

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I have a very dominant mare, she has always been very stubborn when it comes to things she doesn't really feel like doing but recently she has got really bad. When I ride her she is generally as good as gold but on the ground it is a different story. It all started this year when we changed to winter turn out and I went to get her in after her hour out and she just stood upright on her back legs and then pulled away from me. I can normally deal with any bad behavior she throws at me, but once not long after I bought her I was leading her up to the field, stupidly trusting her with a loose rope and completely out of no where, she reared and came down directly on top of me, cracking my head open (I know this was totally my fault she did not do this on purpose, she was just exited to be going out to the grass, if i had had contact on the rope I could have controlled her). It didn't bother me much at the time but when she started rearing again this year I found my self getting more and more nervous leading her around as she began doing it when leading her into the school, when walking her of the grass when being hand grazed and now she has began to do it when trying to mount. Once I get on she is a dream to ride but her rearing is getting worse and worse and it is now at the point where it is almost too dangerous to even attempt to get on. She obviously has no resect for me, but I have no idea why as our relation ship used to be so strong and I have done nothing that could have changes that. The only thing that I have thought it could be is the fact that she has matured, I got her as a 4 year old and she is now raising 8. Before all this happened I used to ride her around bareback with nothing but a head collar and she would follow me around on foot where ever I went, now I feel like our relation ship is falling apart. I know alot of people think join up is a bad way of earning the respect of their horses but I just want her to resect me again. Will join up actually make any difference to her behavior or, even though I really would love to try and sort out the problem myself, should I just send her away to a professional ? :'( :( :confused:

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Would I do join up with a horse that might rear and come down on top of me? No way!

What has your vet / physio / instructor discussed with you about the possible reasons behind the behaviour
 
Wheels said:
Would I do join up with a horse that might rear and come down on top of me? No way!

What has your vet / physio / instructor discussed with you about the possible reasons behind the behaviour
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I have had the vet out he gave her a full check over for any obvious problems, and took some blood to check her hormone levels which came back normal, I will also be looking into the possibility that she could have stomach ulcers . The physio has checked her back, there was nothing majorly wrong with it but she gave her a massage anyway. My instructor gave me a few techniques to use with her but although they worked at first some how she worked out a way of getting round them, so the only other thing that has been suggested it to send her away.
 
I would discuss it with a professional (maybe Richard Maxwell)

Certainly don 't try it yourself, way too much potential to get really hurt.

ETS he has a forum, maybe ask the question there? It's not the best thing for all horses. My mare is hideously dominant so I know how you feel :(
 
xRomi&Darcy4Evax said:
I have had the vet out he gave her a full check over for any obvious problems, and took some blood to check her hormone levels which came back normal, I will also be looking into the possibility that she could have stomach ulcers . The physio has checked her back, there was nothing majorly wrong with it but she gave her a massage anyway. My instructor gave me a few techniques to use with her but although they worked at first some how she worked out a way of getting round them, so the only other thing that has been suggested it to send her away.
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Sorry to be blunt but you maybe need a different instructor who can help you through this. I certainly wouldn't be trying join up on my own with a horse that coud potentially cause me a lot of harm. I would contact one of the IH RAs and let them assess first
 
I have never done join up but in my experience some horses respond to methods that involve being chased off and then allowed back, but some do not take kindly to it one bit. My mare is one of the latter, if you tried to send her on too forcefully on a bad day she would react very aggressively in return. She is a lovely respectful mare in general as I maintain rules when it comes to space etc, but I can just imagine some person trying to assert their dominance in that manner and her showing them just what she thought of it! She has reared at me once when I backed her up sharply for biting me, but since then I have realised she needs more subtle tactics than my previous horse.

I think you should try to do some other small groundwork type tasks that you might enjoy and will not be too much pressure for her to cause this extreme reaction. I am sure someone can recommend, and I think an instructor would be a very good idea.

Have you tried leading her only in a bridle? Or a rope headcollar? Try to be businesslike about it and put aside feelings so you can deal with it calmly and rationally.
 
`she has matured and got away with rearing. I do not care if she has something wrong with her this behaviour is totally unacceptable and she needs to realise this.

I would have her in a control halter, long lead rope and a dressage whip. When she went up I would be quick to get to her side and hit her hard across the back legs - attacking her only means of stability and then chase her around in a tight circle until she thought she was going to die and then carry on as normal.

I know that this will go against the grain with many but when you have known more than one person who has had their heads damaged with a rearing horse then you would teach the horse manners.

Start bossing her, make her stand in the stable away from the door and every time she makes a step to the door make her go back to where she was originally standing. If you aske her to do something then make her do it and dot the i's and cross the t's.
 
I don't use Join-Up, but I do know that there are some horses you shouldn't attempt it with. I have a feeling this might be one of them. So for that reason I'd suggest you seek an RA if you really want to try the Join Up route. Or maybe if you say where you are someone here can recommend a good local trainer.
Horses tend to know where their legs are landing by the way. I'm not saying your horse was evil or "dominant" or that she lacked leadership and lots of other things that are bound to be suggested. Maybe she feels defensive, who knows? But be careful until you can get some help. I would not use a rope halter or a Be Nice because in some circumstances they can aggravate rearing.
Reading between the lines it seems as if your horse has been through a change of management and now gets much less turnout than she used to have? The answer could be as simple as that. Sometimes it's worth thinking about what might have caused a problem.
This - "It all started this year when we changed to winter turn out and I went to get her in after her hour out..."
 
Another vote for Richard maxwell, my gelding was a professional rearer, he'd pop up at the slightest thing but after a session with Richard and doing the homework he set us he's now an angel to handle so much so my 11yo son has been turning out / bringing in for the last couple of years.
 
I think JillA's advice of getting an RA (or someone else good) out is a good one. In these situations you need to learn tools to help you, just training the horse isn't enough imo.
I would forget JU. You aren't experienced in using it and the mare is unpredictable, that is a recipie for potential disaster.

ps.I also agree with Tinypony,looking at possible causes and changing management etc. if appropriate will also help.
 
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