Could my horse just not be very brave?

[NikKnock]

My little TB, once he's schooled over a xc course, will generally go clear if there's a competition at the same venue, but if I try doing a comp at a venue he's never schooled at, he refuses every jump. I fell off today over hunter trail 80cm course because he lurched hideously over a jump at third attempt. Not very nice. He was orphaned at 3 months, he is so distracted by all the other horse at these things. I feel his mind isn't on the job and he seems stressed too. If I carry a schooling whip he's more likely to jump but I understand it has to be a short paddle whip for comps. I don't use spurs. Don't like them. He hadn't done much at all when I bought him as an 8 year old 3 years ago, and admittedly I'm not young nor am I as brave as I used to be. I just want to have fun popping round a xc course at a competition but I do wonder if I have to accept that he can't cope with a brand new venue and never before seen course . I also wonder if some horses are less brave than others. .

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think its understandable some horses get worried at new venues just try and do a course hire beforehand at the competition venue if you can, my friend always does it with her young horses she will only pick places she can hire beforehand so it gives them confidence when she competes there.

 

[NikKnock]

I think its understandable some horses get worried at new venues just try and do a course hire beforehand at the competition venue if you can, my friend always does it with her young horses she will only pick places she can hire beforehand so it gives them confidence when she competes there.

Good idea thanks.

 

[LEC]

All horses can be made a lot braver. It’s about the right stepping stones to doing this.
Reducing anxiety, increasing confidence and giving them structure.
There are often fundamental building blocks which are missing for the horse and it’s usually in their training.

I have had a few who have been slower starters to get going. Things I have done are:
Keep it very small so you can almost go from walk.
In hand work and particularly I tend to do a lot on xc.
A lot of footwork exercises at home so they have skills set and confidence.
Cubbing/hunting has been very useful for some if the right brain.
Fun rides are really helpful with an experienced horse. I just go first or last to avoid people. It just teaches them to deal with a fair amount and focus on jumps.
Xc schooling the day before a competition. I have one that spent its whole time at 7 doing this. I did it with the 5yo recently. It’s a pain and time consuming but works very well.
Sometimes I just stand in a field on a long rein and then just ask them to go and pop something tiny. Give them a pat. Stand in the field and repeat so they learn to switch off and relax and that it’s all no big deal.
I am a very confident rider as well. This very much transmits to the horse. I am quick to react if they need to be in front of the leg or if they need some reassurance. I just don’t worry about stuff or worry if they make a mistake.
Essentially you need to invest an awful lot of time and effort as there is no quick fix but it’s little things every single day as I suspect there are other issues in day to day life and it’s not purely about xc.
My little 5yo used to be so unconfident but is unrecognisable now just as every single day we have worked on it.

 

[NikKnock]

All horses can be made a lot braver. It’s about the right stepping stones to doing this.
Reducing anxiety, increasing confidence and giving them structure.
There are often fundamental building blocks which are missing for the horse and it’s usually in their training.

I have had a few who have been slower starters to get going. Things I have done are:
Keep it very small so you can almost go from walk.
In hand work and particularly I tend to do a lot on xc.
A lot of footwork exercises at home so they have skills set and confidence.
Cubbing/hunting has been very useful for some if the right brain.
Fun rides are really helpful with an experienced horse. I just go first or last to avoid people. It just teaches them to deal with a fair amount and focus on jumps.
Xc schooling the day before a competition. I have one that spent its whole time at 7 doing this. I did it with the 5yo recently. It’s a pain and time consuming but works very well.
Sometimes I just stand in a field on a long rein and then just ask them to go and pop something tiny. Give them a pat. Stand in the field and repeat so they learn to switch off and relax and that it’s all no big deal.
I am a very confident rider as well. This very much transmits to the horse. I am quick to react if they need to be in front of the leg or if they need some reassurance. I just don’t worry about stuff or worry if they make a mistake.
Essentially you need to invest an awful lot of time and effort as there is no quick fix but it’s little things every single day as I suspect there are other issues in day to day life and it’s not purely about xc.
My little 5yo used to be so unconfident but is unrecognisable now just as every single day we have worked on it.

That's fantastic. Thanks so m7ch for your suggestions.

 

[DeliaRides]

I'm no expert but wanted to share words of what I hope is reassurance. We have a very low mileage 9yo (my daughter's pony) who I was beginning to worry would never be brave but with consistent work and reassurance, and sometimes a little firmer riding, he has found his love of XC and is finding his brave pants! We were at a Hunter Trials yesterday and he was almost trying to drag my daughter to the start, like he was telling her he understood the job now and was ready. And what a round! Super brave and a nice speed the whole way around, suddenly they looked like a great XC partnership.

I do think some are naturally brave, and some might not be naturally brave but can learn to be. And some (not all!) of the naturally brave ones might also not be naturally careful, which our boy definitely is! He also looks to my daughter for instruction and she has had to learn to give it clearly, which was new to her after previous pony who would take her into a fence.

As I say, I'm really not an expert but wanted to provide a perspective from somebody who was on the brink of thinking it might not be for him, only to be happily surprised.

 

[NikKnock]

I'm no expert but wanted to share words of what I hope is reassurance. We have a very low mileage 9yo (my daughter's pony) who I was beginning to worry would never be brave but with consistent work and reassurance, and sometimes a little firmer riding, he has found his love of XC and is finding his brave pants! We were at a Hunter Trials yesterday and he was almost trying to drag my daughter to the start, like he was telling her he understood the job now and was ready. And what a round! Super brave and a nice speed the whole way around, suddenly they looked like a great XC partnership.

I do think some are naturally brave, and some might not be naturally brave but can learn to be. And some (not all!) of the naturally brave ones might also not be naturally careful, which our boy definitely is! He also looks to my daughter for instruction and she has had to learn to give it clearly, which was new to her after previous pony who would take her into a fence.

As I say, I'm really not an expert but wanted to provide a perspective from somebody who was on the brink of thinking it might not be for him, only to be happily surprised.

That's fantastic to hear thank you

 

[Birker2020]

I totally get this OP.

My horse was out every weekend competing but she would take every opportunity to spook at new fillers or go into the arena and look for something to shy at, a shaft of sunlight, a pole on the side, a sandbag keeping a wing from blowing over.

If we were doing x.c and a mobile (jump) had been moved to a new location leaving behind a patch of lime green dead grass which you had to ride over or next to she would object strongly doing a dramatic shy away from it in a flat out canter and nearly unseating me. This is why my x.c rounds were always so slow and why I never had the misfortune to falle off doing x.c!

When SJ, if I walked the course and said to my partner that I didn't like fence four she would stop at it or I'd end up on the floor looking at it! So a lot of it was to do with me and I probably subconsciously sent a signal to her. Maybe you ate doing that OP?

I also rode her most of the time in a 'handbrake on' scenario because less speed meant when she did slap the anchors on I had more chance of staying in the saddle.

I think with me at least, once I'd lost my confidence it was hard to ride with determination. That said we won an awful lot or got placed often with 40's in the class. I never rode big tracks (the highest was 1.05m with a 1.10m jump off) but she went better the bigger they were and towards the end of our jumping competition days together she was going very nicely in a super rhythm.

I think a lot of horses lack confidence and look to their rider. I suppose jumping smaller simpler jumps and getting ones confidence and the horses confidence might help and hiring different venues and jumping different courses will help in the long run too although I used to cry off jumping anything I thought she might not have liked because I was nervous!

It's practice, practice, practice and like anything, the more you do of something the more comfortable they are with it.

Surprisingly she never had a problem with the brightly coloured jump in the photo, but she hated those mosaic type fillers or the ones with the swirly patterns.

 

[NikKnock]

Thank you. I was worried about yesterday's course and had a feeling I'd fall off and sure enough he stopped st every fence and I fell off!!

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you. I was worried about yesterday's course and had a feeling I'd fall off and sure enough he stopped st every fence and I fell off!!

This is it though isn’t it? And it's easy to get into this mindset but incredibly hard to get away from.

Yes lots of course hire for both of you. Try to take a friend who your horse can follow and make it fun. Also make sure you have the right gear and if you are really worried about hurting yourself invest in an air jacket. It gives you a psychological advantage.

 

[NikKnock]

This is it though isn’t it? And it's easy to get into this mindset but incredibly hard to get away from.

Yes lots of course hire for both of you. Try to take a friend who your horse can follow and make it fun. Also make sure you have the right gear and if you are really worried about hurting yourself invest in an air jacket. It gives you a psychological advantage.

Thank you again, really useful

 

[NikKnock]

I totally get this OP.

My horse was out every weekend competing but she would take every opportunity to spook at new fillers or go into the arena and look for something to shy at, a shaft of sunlight, a pole on the side, a sandbag keeping a wing from blowing over.

If we were doing x.c and a mobile (jump) had been moved to a new location leaving behind a patch of lime green dead grass which you had to ride over or next to she would object strongly doing a dramatic shy away from it in a flat out canter and nearly unseating me. This is why my x.c rounds were always so slow and why I never had the misfortune to falle off doing x.c!

When SJ, if I walked the course and said to my partner that I didn't like fence four she would stop at it or I'd end up on the floor looking at it! So a lot of it was to do with me and I probably subconsciously sent a signal to her. Maybe you ate doing that OP?

I also rode her most of the time in a 'handbrake on' scenario because less speed meant when she did slap the anchors on I had more chance of staying in the saddle.

I think with me at least, once I'd lost my confidence it was hard to ride with determination. That said we won an awful lot or got placed often with 40's in the class. I never rode big tracks (the highest was 1.05m with a 1.10m jump off) but she went better the bigger they were and towards the end of our jumping competition days together she was going very nicely in a super rhythm.

I think a lot of horses lack confidence and look to their rider. I suppose jumping smaller simpler jumps and getting ones confidence and the horses confidence might help and hiring different venues and jumping different courses will help in the long run too although I used to cry off jumping anything I thought she might not have liked because I was nervous!

It's practice, practice, practice and like anything, the more you do of something the more comfortable they are with it.

Surprisingly she never had a problem with the brightly coloured jump in the photo, but she hated those mosaic type fillers or the ones with the swirly patterns.

Weird. My horse is fine with coloured jumps and fillers. But a log he's never seen before...!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

What is your horses reaction to things that worry them generally? I have found that putting Dex in increasingly 'worrisome' situations in a controlled environment was the best way to get him as super confident as he is and to change the reaction from flight, to think and process which then translates to most other things and builds a strong relationship between handler and rider. He genuinely *touch wood* hasn't done anything more than that small jump spook they do and we have some super spooky hacking incl cows, a game estate with kamikaze pheasants, big logging trucks in the woods, donkeys, and DofE kids!

Eg: having him on the lunge and walking around the back of him then applying slight pressure, he then has to figure out that thinking and then extracating himself releases the pressure, not stressing and tangling up more. Waving a flappy thing above my head, it only stopped when he stopped moving his feet. Allowing the lunge line to be on the floor and letting him step on it (attached only to a normal padded headcollar). Walking up to anything he gives a slight side eye to, and then giving a treat once his nose is on it, and another for touching it again.

 

[Birker2020]

Weird. My horse is fine with coloured jumps and fillers. But a log he's never seen before...!

It was this type of filler that used to throw her

 

[Orangehorse]

I was going to suggest going on some fun rides with small jumps, IF you have a trusted friend who will go at your pace so you horse can follow the other horse with the object of finding it fun.

 

[Trot_on]

Mine can be like this, but it's not the fences he's scared of - it's fence judges, cars and anything he doesn't normally see when out XC training. He's less concerned about them if it's a more open course and he doesn't have just them to focus on. He goes clear at Epworth, but at a hunter trial yesterday we were eliminated at the 5th fence because he would loose all momentum because he was backing off people sat in bushes on a more 'closed track' course. Once he gets into his rhythm he's fine, which can be fustrating but it is what it is.

Is it worth asking a trusted, very confident friend/pro to ride her around a hunter trial and see if they have the same issues? It could help rule out some things - though it's very important this person is sypathetic yet clear and consistent. You don't want your horse being beaten round just to 'make it happen'.

I'd also suggest:
- keeping it tiny. Fences you can walk over if you need to
- doing some pairs classes so he has a good forward horse to follow to gain confidence
- pick and choose your venues while he is gaining confidence. Go where you know he goes well to always make it a good experience while he builds confidence.
- Keep new venues for training for the time being
- when you are training, treat it like a competition. Warm up over some small fences, then do a course rather than training each fence

Good luck! It's very hard having a nervy but capable horse. For my horse, it often is a 'if he's in the right mindframe, he'll do well, if not, we'll just have a nice time and try get a nice professional image' type of thing. I'm not competitive, but I do enjoy doing well and going clear when possible!

 

[Trot_on]

It was this type of filler that used to throw her

View attachment 147116

I aren't surprised - these throw me just looking at them. they're really mean - especially the B&W one... makes a distance look dodgy!

 

[vhf]

Thank you again, really useful

Double incentivising because you REALLY don't want to fall off and waste ££ replacing the cartridge!

There's also a difference (I believe anyway) between 'bold' and 'brave'. My old girl was never bold, but she was brave once she knew she could trust me. Others I've had, I reckon you could put a stuffed toy up and they'd jump anything - no thought about danger; I think that's bold. The ones that aren't bold and learn to be brave might be safer I reckon but they take time to relationship-build. I've known a few that were 'too bold' and it can be quite hair-raising even if they stay polite; if they're never scared they don't need to be brave!

 

[CastlelackSportHorses]

Double incentivising because you REALLY don't want to fall off and waste ££ replacing the cartridge!

There's also a difference (I believe anyway) between 'bold' and 'brave'. My old girl was never bold, but she was brave once she knew she could trust me. Others I've had, I reckon you could put a stuffed toy up and they'd jump anything - no thought about danger; I think that's bold. The ones that aren't bold and learn to be brave might be safer I reckon but they take time to relationship-build. I've known a few that were 'too bold' and it can be quite hair-raising even if they stay polite; if they're never scared they don't need to be brave!

Agreed. I have 2 maternal half sisters. The older girl is Bold, she will jump anything. Never has had a stop in all the 10 years of us competing. Even when I was eventing at 2/3* level, I have fallen off and she has jumped on without me.
Her young sister is much more careful, she can be brave but is much more thoughtful, she will never event like her bigger sis as she just too careful, but its a breath of fresh air as the older horse was quite scary in her day