Could really do with some advice...

SpottyTB

SpottyTB

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So longish story but i could really do with some tips, advice or any suggestions..

A little girl on my yard is having a few problems with her pony, the little girl is 11 years old and a really talented rider (she can ride/jump my 15.2 5year old easily).. last summer her parents bought her (after months of searching) a gorgeous 14.1hh ISH pony who is now 5.

He is brilliant, came from Ireland, hunted and ridden on, she hacks him out no problem and he's brilliant in lessons HOWEVER when put in open spaces or in Pony club situations he is a complete SOD!

Today, i rode him for them, we were up in my friends schooling area (2 acre field), i put him into trot and he just WENT, and i mean completely bolted. Now i'm 5'9 and pretty darn strong and i couldn't stop him, i tried everything i could think off! He almost jumped there 5 bar gate with me but i manged to pull him onto a circle, after 5/10 mins of blind bolting, i managed to get him calm enough to circle and listen.

He's had his back/teeth and tack checked - all are fine.
He's hacked in a neue schule universal and jumped/schooled in a running gag - HOWEVER today he was in the neue schule.. (bolts in gag anyway)

Once he's settled he schools amazingly, and has paces to die for and the little girl generally gets on brilliantly with him, but the bolting is just getting ridiculous now and needs to be sorted..

So, has anyone got any advice on bits to try, or techniques?
Any suggestions etc? I thought about going back to basics, lunging, long reining and then schooling on the flat... but to be honest i think i may be more bit related.. usually his head is to the floor when he bolts with the little girl but today i managed to keep it up - but he still went... Also, he has an awful habit of rearing a few feet up and diving side ways...

help!
 
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First off, is it def bolting rather than running off? I'm not making slight of it, but I wonder if it was possible to pull him up, if he was running off rather than a true blind bolt? Has the vet checked him, rather than back lady/saddle fitter checks? Def rule out pain first, but assuming all is ok, he might have caught on that running off = less work? More likely if he was running off rather than a true bolt though. After vet check perhaps they could get their adult instructor to school him and when the problem is sorted give her lessons to help get her confidence back? I wouldn't put her back on a known bolter until things are def sorted.
If when he goes he puts his head right down, then I would reconsider the bitting as the gag will add poll pressure, which sounds like the last thing you need, that might be why with the elevator he didn't put his head down with you?
 
Oh spotty- de ja vu!!

We found a cracking little 13.2 for my liverys 12yo pipsqueak of a daughter. Looks like a mini irish draught, sane sensible and allegedly not a world beater but safe. Came to having some lessons and the little sod kept carting her off to the gate. Just to check that she was being less than positive in her riding I jumped on him. Little devil tried it with me and was REALLY strong. Anyway, sorted that and put him in a a gag for a while so that she could convince him she was in charge, which worked really well and they are now back in a snaffle.
BUT - hunting? Forget it. Doesn't matter what he has in his mouth, head on the floor and goes. Mum went out on foot with them and ended up getting on pony, and he tried carting her (Successful briefly). Another small livery has hunted him and she came back with long arms too, and this is with a globe pelham in.

So- the negative is she can't hunt him because he is fairly unstoppable. He is clever in that he knows when to pick his moments.
The positive is he has got a cracking jump in him and they are having an amazing time.
That doesn't really help, does it!!
 
Its literally, blindly galloping around with his jaw clamped, i tried half halting politely and then i got narky and became heavier with him and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.

I think the vet checked him over last week and there was no problems, he's not scared (or apparently doesn't look it), its almost a tantrum, but when he goes, its just blind, you cant pull him up the only thing you can do it sit quietly until he stops or try to put him on a circle (i could only do that using jumps, as he steadies himself to jump fences, so you have 3/4 strides to get hold of him).

She is taught by one of the best instructors down here who has 30+ years experience, this lady also schooled him for 2 weeks and he only bolted a couple of times.. unfortunately he doesn't do it in front of her and until today he'd never done it in front of me or with me! Bless the little girl, she's ploughing on through with him and each time she comes off, she gets back on but i know what you mean about not putting her back on him.

I think the plan is, that i'll be schooling him once a week for them and hopefully this will make a difference. Regarding the bit and poll pressure, he bolts with his head down with the NS and the girl riding, its only because i have more strength, i managed to keep his head up!

:-) tricky one eh..
 
irish_only said:
Oh spotty- de ja vu!!

We found a cracking little 13.2 for my liverys 12yo pipsqueak of a daughter. Looks like a mini irish draught, sane sensible and allegedly not a world beater but safe. Came to having some lessons and the little sod kept carting her off to the gate. Just to check that she was being less than positive in her riding I jumped on him. Little devil tried it with me and was REALLY strong. Anyway, sorted that and put him in a a gag for a while so that she could convince him she was in charge, which worked really well and they are now back in a snaffle.
BUT - hunting? Forget it. Doesn't matter what he has in his mouth, head on the floor and goes. Mum went out on foot with them and ended up getting on pony, and he tried carting her (Successful briefly). Another small livery has hunted him and she came back with long arms too, and this is with a globe pelham in.

So- the negative is she can't hunt him because he is fairly unstoppable. He is clever in that he knows when to pick his moments.
The positive is he has got a cracking jump in him and they are having an amazing time.
That doesn't really help, does it!!
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Ahhh this little pony will hunt BEAUTIFULLY, went out for 2 hours on the lead rein from another horse - brilliant, took lead rein off- brilliant!

Its so annoying, its only at Pony club (my opinion is to just take him completely away for PC as the instructors are pure evil to the little girl, some of the things they have said to her is just disgusting, she's 11 for Christ's sake!) and in big area's... he is BRILLIANT apart from that!
 
He s a very young pony.Only 4 when brought over from Ireland he was probably backed/hunted and sold without ever having any basics taught to him.
Already in a very strong bit [gag] this situation could become extremely dangerous.
At 11yrs his rider ,however good is still young to be riding this pony with the traits he is showing.
I would suggest getting professional help,someone who can ride and assess this pony,at the very least he could probably benefit from going back to the basics.
He is not happy in some way ,bolting/rearing, signs that he will only get worse.
Has he been seen by a physio? There is probably pain somewhere.
I hope you can find some answers to his problems.
 
I wouldn't normally suggest this, but as she is only a child, why not lunge him in a quiet area, for a few mins before she rides him at shows etc? So if he is going to have a little hissy and try and charge off, he's on the lunge and can riot round on a circle for 2 mins, rather than putting her in danger.

As far as open spaces go, i used to ride a horse that used to just tank off, and instead of fighting him to stop, I made him go as fast as he possibly could and wouldn't let him stop until I said so. He did it for about three weeks, then cottoned on that walking at my pace was much easier and less effort than tanking about like a loon. Wouldn't recommend this for a novice rider though, needs to be someone who knows what they are doing, as could end up causing more harm than good.
 
be positive said:
He s a very young pony.Only 4 when brought over from Ireland he was probably backed/hunted and sold without ever having any basics taught to him.
Already in a very strong bit [gag] this situation could become extremely dangerous.
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He has had the basics taught, he will do flying changes on command, goes in a perfect outline, leg yields etc - a top dressage rider had him on her yard for a month and a half... and even in Ireland he was schooled.. he is completely balanced and is capable of a very nice dressage test..

Again in regards to the bit he was ridden in a snaffle until about 2 months ago, it is only since he's being playing up/trying her out that he's been in a stronger bit..

:confused:
 
Perhaps it might be worth trying something with a different action, at least while you are re-schooling him, as it doesn't sound like the bits are currently helping you out enough. Maybe something like a full cheek waterford - less to get hold of and if you can bend and control the neck, you have much more control. If that isn't enough then maybe add a kineton noseband - just adding different actions so that you can ride nicely, but should he be a brat you can v clearly say 'no'. The kineton will add nose pressure when the bit is used. The pony might respond better to different pressures to get through to him clearly without needing to pull his mouth about. If all is well and no probs, then it does sound like he is useing running off as a get out. Hopefully with you working with him and time to grow out of this stage, he might find education helps him develop some better manners!
 
SophieLouBee said:
I wouldn't normally suggest this, but as she is only a child, why not lunge him in a quiet area, for a few mins before she rides him at shows etc? So if he is going to have a little hissy and try and charge off, he's on the lunge and can riot round on a circle for 2 mins, rather than putting her in danger.

As far as open spaces go, i used to ride a horse that used to just tank off, and instead of fighting him to stop, I made him go as fast as he possibly could and wouldn't let him stop until I said so.
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Good idea about the lunging, i think we will try this - or though i have a feeling he tanks a bit on the lunge anyway.. and i also pushed him on today, but the problem is, he is completely in a zone when he goes, and also very fit, he would go for hours and its a worry that he doesn't mind taking on a 5 bar gate.. :eek:
 
ThePony said:
Maybe something like a full cheek waterford - less to get hold of and if you can bend and control the neck, you have much more control. If that isn't enough then maybe add a kineton noseband - just adding different actions so that you can ride nicely, but should he be a brat you can v clearly say 'no'. The kineton will add nose pressure when the bit is used
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Ideal, i will look into both of those suggestions and give them ago - Thank you:)

Out of interest, they have a Piwi bit to use, has anyone ever ridden in one? Recon it may work?
 
Take him into a big open field or preferably a gallop or even the beach when he goes to go, drop your hands and let him have it. Tire the little sod out he is probably getting a kick out of taking off and now has developed a habit with it. The more you pull the harder they pull back.
 
Ok i will give that a go, it would usually be the first thing i'd do with any other horse, it's just a worry with how blind he becomes! Thinking about it now, i think he's being an arrogant, naughty sod, he's not scared, not in pain and actually, every time he dropped his head to low, i corrected him and put my leg on and that's when he went to tank... so maybe he's having a tantrum about being corrected/disciplined. :mad::rolleyes:
 
Oh, and another thing, if he puts his head right down and goes, why not try a grass rein on him, obviously don't use it incorrectly as in too tight, but tight enough so he cant just get his nose on the floor. Quite a controversial thing, but I've seen it used a fair bit with tots on naughty ponies at PC, I'm unsure as to whether I'd use it myself, probably not to be fair.

Another vote for a waterford bit too, stops them leaning.

Ultimately though, you need to cure it, not just put him in a load of gadgets and hope. Also might give these people at PC even more of a reason to be vile.
 
Little Squirrel said:
Take him into a big open field or preferably a gallop or even the beach when he goes to go, drop your hands and let him have it. Tire the little sod out he is probably getting a kick out of taking off and now has developed a habit with it. The more you pull the harder they pull back.
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Totally agree with this! I used to ride a pony who used to do this. An ex little riding school pony, brilliant with beginners in the school but as soon as he got out into an open space he'd tank off, knowing full well they'd never stop him and would come off!! They got me on him (I was a tiny teenager back then!!) and tried everything! The only thing that eventually worked was to just let him go and go and go!!! Every time he slowed or tried to stop he'd get a pony club kick and I'd make him go around again! Eventually he realised tanking off was hard work!!
My current exracer's a sod also for this, not everytime but occassionally he'll get so wound up the only thing I can do is to let him go. It's different with him as you can't fight with his mouth as being a typical exracer he just accelerates more (only when he's in this "mood", generally he's very stoppable, just depends if something's "upset him"!!). Even a waterford doesn't work! In this instance I put a kineton on and it works really well.
 
SophieLouBee said:
Oh, and another thing, if he puts his head right down and goes, why not try a grass rein on him,

Also might give these people at PC even more of a reason to be vile.
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I also suggested this to them :) think we may also give this a go, think they are going to order a waterford for him!

As to those at PC, dont even get me started, the thing's i've heard :( its actually so sad, they've told her, her pony is un suitable, evil, not capable of doing the mini jumps (which is stupid as he's jumped 1.10 courses). Also her mother over heard them all bitching about the pony and little girl at a meeting (yes this is fully grown adults, not the kids, the mothers and DC), but also went on to say to her face that the pony was useless and she should have bought a pony THEY recommended (that also bolts, is ridden in a gag and standing martingale and is about 20 - arthritic and on and off lame!)

:eek:
 
SpottyTB said:
I also suggested this to them :) think we may also give this a go, think they are going to order a waterford for him!

As to those at PC, dont even get me started, the thing's i've heard :( its actually so sad, they've told her, her pony is un suitable, evil, not capable of doing the mini jumps (which is stupid as he's jumped 1.10 courses). Also her mother over heard them all bitching about the pony and little girl at a meeting (yes this is fully grown adults, not the kids, the mothers and DC), but also went on to say to her face that the pony was useless and she should have bought a pony THEY recommended (that also bolts, is ridden in a gag and standing martingale and is about 20 - arthritic and on and off lame!)

:eek:
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That's awful! No wonder there are so many delinquent ponies/horses out there! No one's willing to get to the bottom of the problem and perservere until it's addressed! When I first got my tb everybody said he was dangerous and he should be PTS. I'm not saying in some circumstances this shouldn't be the case but after tracing my boy's history and finding out how he was locked up at a riding school for 2 years and not turned out/worked once, it's no wonder he had some behavioural issues!! He's now come on so much and yeah he's not ridden bareback in a snaffle, but he enjoys what he does and we're both much safer!!
 
Yes it is pretty bad, you'd think they'd relish in the fact she's spending £300+ a year with them and perhaps give her some support with the pony. All they are bothered about is having the best riders and the push button horses in there teams to win stuff, which is sad, when i was in the PC it was all about having fun with your horse and getting better, not pot hunting and bitching about each other.. and to say it to such a lovely, well brought up 11 year old, is truly disgraceful. (actually going to do a post on it when i have time, to find out if all the PC's are like that).

I know what your saying about people who just give up, im glad your not one of them and you've obviously persevered with your boy - weldone :) and i wish you luck for the future!
 
SpottyTB said:
I also suggested this to them :) think we may also give this a go, think they are going to order a waterford for him!

As to those at PC, dont even get me started, the thing's i've heard :( its actually so sad, they've told her, her pony is un suitable, evil, not capable of doing the mini jumps (which is stupid as he's jumped 1.10 courses). Also her mother over heard them all bitching about the pony and little girl at a meeting (yes this is fully grown adults, not the kids, the mothers and DC), but also went on to say to her face that the pony was useless and she should have bought a pony THEY recommended (that also bolts, is ridden in a gag and standing martingale and is about 20 - arthritic and on and off lame!)

:eek:
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thats bloody awful!!:mad: obviously sour grapes because she didn't buy the pony they suggested:rolleyes::mad: i think i'd be telling the pc where to stick it, is there not another branch they can go to rather than the current one?
 
Ponyclub sounds almost as bad as it is on here at the mo then :p HA.

Good on the little girl for persevering with him though, most of these mothers little darlings at PC probably can't even ride a beach donkey, they are most likely jealous that said pony isn't decrepit and actually has some talent.
 
I would stick him in a full cheek and then stick it on the lunge in the biggest open space I could find. Run the lunge line up over the poll for more control, and make him used to it. Sounds like a confidence thing to me. Scary wide open space! That and with such a young mount he has probably combined that with the fact that he's gotten away with it so many times now. Lunge, Lunge more Lunge .... then if he improves eventually get the rider back on.
 
SpottyTB said:
Yes it is pretty bad, you'd think they'd relish in the fact she's spending £300+ a year with them and perhaps give her some support with the pony. All they are bothered about is having the best riders and the push button horses in there teams to win stuff, which is sad, when i was in the PC it was all about having fun with your horse and getting better, not pot hunting and bitching about each other.. and to say it to such a lovely, well brought up 11 year old, is truly disgraceful. (actually going to do a post on it when i have time, to find out if all the PC's are like that).

I know what your saying about people who just give up, im glad your not one of them and you've obviously persevered with your boy - weldone :) and i wish you luck for the future!
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Thankyou!! :)
I know, pony club was great fun!! It's all too serious now. I remember the days when me and my friends used to turn up on our scruffy little ponies and have such a laugh! It's much more competitive nowadays! Who's spent the most on what pony, what tack they've got etc!! They're kids!! I'm hoping my daughter will get into pony club but I'm dreading it! Don't get me wrong, we're fortunate enough to be able to afford to get her the best stuff, but she'll have to earn it and she'll be the one getting up extra early to muck out her pony before school! Anyway, kind of gatecrashed your thread! sorry
 
Do you know how to bridge the reins, this will mean that he is pulling against himself.
I had one which had a screw loose and use to piss off every so often when you asked him to do something he did not want to, suited him, but he looked after himself so you were fairly safe, just embarrassed [picture experienced lady instructor being carted on a 13.1 at a pony club camp] unfortunately he was "loopy" and not a child's pony. He was the only one the farrier would not shoe, as he was dangerous, I mean dangerous.
I had one who "ran away" well he only did it once, and I just kept him running, round and round, and round again, I was pretty shattered , but he never did it again.
I don't consider a horse with its head low is bolting, he is evading the bit, so don't let him do it.
 
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SpottyTB said:
Ok i will give that a go, it would usually be the first thing i'd do with any other horse, it's just a worry with how blind he becomes! Thinking about it now, i think he's being an arrogant, naughty sod, he's not scared, not in pain and actually, every time he dropped his head to low, i corrected him and put my leg on and that's when he went to tank... so maybe he's having a tantrum about being corrected/disciplined. :mad::rolleyes:
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Sorry, if you had time to say "put your leg on", whatever that means, he is not bolting, do not let him drop his head, why would you do that, sorry to rant but you asked a question about a pony that is too much for a child, that is the point.
Horses are not arrogant, they are animals.
Is this a troll?
 
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I agree that he is hooking off rather than actually bolting. If he were bolting then you wouldn't have been able to turn him.

What you want to do when he does this is to not let him keep his balance but to swing on one rein as if you were turning him left than immediately swing him right so he is forever having to change legs. Not necessarily pretty but it does work.
 
Nothing really to add but..............I used to know an Arab mare that was partial to disappearing, flat out when in wide open spaces. Her owner discovered, by pure chance, that she could pull her up, piece of cake, by pulling on the neckstrap of her running martingale!
I reckon 99% of all horses have a key somewhere to getting the wonderful behaviour we desire, it's having the patience to a) find the key and b) work out how to turn it! Sounds like you're willing to persevere and hope it all works out.
 
I would change from a gag .I had a pony who was pretty strong and went up to a three ring, well he went from pretty strong to tanking off pulling his head down at full speed!we overtook several 16hh tb's this way out on a hack once!! I ended up riding him in a hard rubber Pelham in the end he loved that bit !
Just thought I'd add my story :D
 
Avoid Pony Club! When I went (couple of years ago) I had a very highly strung pony and it really didn't suit him at all, he wouldn't wait in line with other ponies, especially if they were going over a jump one at a time, he always had to be first, and he really took the mick with the jumps. I guess nowadays the instructors have to suit all levels, so they tend to put the jumps up really small. He'd just bolt them, whereas with decent fences he'd be great. Once he was waiting to go over a xc fence and he got so wound up he just bolted around the field several times.
Basically, i'd take him out of those situations that provok him, unless he's got someone who's ready for him, to get him out the habit. He's pretty young, I expect he's just excited. Little girl sounds an awesome rider :)
 
Firstly MrsD123, I am most certainly NOT a troll.

Yes horses are animals, but they also have a brain - and this chap know's it.

When I rode him on Tuesday, i laid of keeping my leg directly on as I wanted to see if it made a difference, he started to lean on me so I put my leg on (constantly squeezing) and picked him up, within the space off 30seconds-1minute he had locked his jaw, set his neck and was galloping blindly across 2acres. The only way I could stop/turn him was to use a 7ft hedge (which he did eye up to jump), there was no way I could stop him and really the only way I did was to put him over a fence and pull on one rein as he was in mid air, which knocked him off balance and got him onto a reasonably small circle.

I have told them to avoid PC as they obviousy have nothing nice to say about this pony and the group situations are not doing him any good.

The little girl is a superb rider and like I originally said, has no problems whatsoever with him other than this open space/schooling issue.

Again, I am not a troll- well I wasn't last time I checked.
 
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