Could someone look at this Diet for a windsucker/Ulcer prone horse please?

EquestrianFairy

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Just wondered if there was someone more knowledgeable than me.

I have a windsucker who is possibly ulcer prone but i cannot get her scoped for a few months as she is on loan, however my vet has advised to feed her as though she has ulcers so: no cereals, low starch etc.

The thing is; i have noticed she windsucks/cribs more when shes eaten her current feed and i wondered if there is something in there that shouldnt be?

Topspec Comprehensive balancer
Speedibeet
Soya Oil
Topspec Topchop Alfa lite.

Anyone got any ideas? The only thing i can do is slowly start stopping each one until i can figure out which one prompts the cribbbing reaction as today she came in, was in for an hour with hay (didnt crib) had a long hack and came back and was in again for around an hour with hay (didnt crib) then within 5 mins of her finishing her hard feed she was cribbing. Theres obviously something in there thats upsetting her but all of them are recommended for ulcer prone horses.

Anyone had any experiecne with any of these feeds?

Thanks
 

skint1

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No experience of those feeds (except speedi-beet) but I do have a wind sucker. Tbh, nothing we've fed her seems to stop her doing it, the best remedy seems to be lots of turn out, lots of fibre, avoid cereals/corn. We never had her scoped for uclers but she was given gastroguard when we first got her as she was not long out of racing and was looking quite poor, it helped her condition a lot but didn't really lessen the wind sucking/cribbing. I have heard good things about coligone but not tried it myself.

Right now we have her on brewer's yeast and limestone flour but have only just started it so not noticed any real reduction in her habit yet.

She's turned away at the moment and I am just letting her do it as much as she likes and oddly she seems to be wanting to do it less often than when we've had her at yards where she's had to wear a collar (not that I blame the yards-you can't have horses destroying fencing etc
 

black_horse

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My mare used to have ulcers, shes fed:
Alfa A
Saracens releve (low startch)
Saracens biolife
alfa beet
garlic
colligone (when needed)
adlib hay

the windsucking could be linked to the ulcers (stress?). Feeding high fibre low startch diet should help :)
 

EquestrianFairy

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Sorry she is on coligone- I should have put that in!

Hmmm, weirdly she's really fussy on feed for example she won't eat Alpha A Oil, any wingergy feeds either or any flavoured chaff. The top spec chaff is the first one I've found that she will actually eat.
 

EquestrianFairy

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DM- I'll be really annoyed if that's the case as they (topspec) sent me this huge bundle of stuff for ulcer prone horses and what I should feed/how the feed doesn't have anything that should irritate it etc.

Knowing my luck this will be the case.
 

TigerTail

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Ive been looking into feeding activated charcoal to the windsucker in my field (i sodding hate it!!!) - read quite a few interesting things about it that for the price seems worth it. The other thing thats been suggested to me is bach flower remedies, one for stress and one for habit breaking - cant remember which ones but if ur interested il look it up again :)

This mare is (apparently) windsucking less now shes living out, still seems a lot to me, has to do it after eating, does it off my hayboxes whilst eating hay and can just do it with nothing to hold at all.

Ulcer prone horses are better living out with adlib hay and only a small bucket feed if necessary for weight, the worst thing is one or two massive buckets then left with nowt which is when the acid in their stomachs start to go nuts.
 

EquestrianFairy

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She's out almost 24/7, however she does get stressed when the weather is bad and stands by the gate windsucking so i will bring her in for the night.
She has 3 haynets when in to make sure she never runs out as well. (I'm trying to work on whats working and what's not).

I'll start slowly knocking the feed down to see if anything causes it, she needs weight on but doesn't seem to be putting it on no matter what she's fed.
 

Slinkyunicorn

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Sorry it Allen & Page - about £8 a bag - just mix with water and add chaff - they all hoover it up! it also contains sugar beet so ulrimately you could drop that. My feed bills have never been cheaper - all I have is Fast Fibre and chaff (the TopSpec Lite for my lami and pure alfalfa for the one with ulcers) In the event either needs a bit more condition I use Coolstance - energy dense and high fibre as well but works quickly - again a bag is about £15 but last for ages.:)
 

ABC

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SU - does your horse not just eat all the alfalfa all at once? I'd love to do something like that for my lad but I'm convinced he'd gobble it all up at once! :D
 

Kiristamm

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My old boy was prone to ulcers and he had Alpha A, Spedibeet and oil (Vit E and selenium to balance the oil intake) and charcoal which stopped him colicing! Amazing stuff!

Have you though about the quantity you feed?
My 17 hh could only eat 1/4 scoop Spedibeet and 1/3 scoop Alpha A. He put more weight on on smaller meals than the 3 scoop monstrosities he was on before I got him. The smaller meals meant all the food started to be digested in the stomach before it moved into the small intestine, meaning he got more of the nutriants.

Hope this helps a little, (he didn't windsuck though)
 

Slinkyunicorn

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SU - does your horse not just eat all the alfalfa all at once? I'd love to do something like that for my lad but I'm convinced he'd gobble it all up at once! :D

Well he gets about two thirds of a trug of alfalfa and Fast Fibre - the forst couple of nights he just troughs it first but then it slows down - he has a choice between that hay and a good quality haylage - so he goes between them through the night:D If I pop round to see them after about an hour he is normally having a nap as he has stuffed himself and needs a break before going back from seconds:D:D:D Is more important that he has something to nibble on and when they know nothing else can get it they self regulate their eating to make it last :D
 

Tr0uble

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TBH, of the horse actually HAS ulcers, then I'm afraid even the right food (and I can't see anything glaringly wrong with your feeding) isn't going to help until you curenthenulcers that are there.

The only way to cure them is Omeprazole (Gastrogard) which inhibits the production of stomac acid and allows tne stomach lining to heal. Takes approx 1 month, and IS expensive.

Feed wise, yes def cut out sugars and starches..watch out for hidden sugars and starches too! Even carrots were too much for my boy.

Oil is good, it coats the stomach. Alfalfa feeds are good because the calcium levels help to counter the stomach acid.

Personally, with my boy (who I recently lost to other health issues-the ulcers we had under control) I kept itmreally simple. Hay made up the main part of his diet, he had alfa A oil and speedi beet with a powdered supplement (you often find hidden starches in the carriers used for balancer pellets) and maybe some brewers yeast. Once we had them under control for some time he was then also given a high oil pellet feed as he needed a really high oil diet for the azoturia.
 

Tr0uble

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Also meant to add, it is advisable to always feed a fibre feed, or allow access to hay, immediately before exercise. This creates a 'blanket' on top of the stomach and helps stop acid splashes.

I always gave my boy a hay net for 30 mins before exercise.
 

JoBird

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The diet looks fine to me and to be honest I have had my windsucking mare for 5 years and she always windsucks after any feed or if I give her a carrot or any treat. She hasnt even swallowed it so it is not that the food is affecting the horse and causing the windsucking, it has now become a habit. She also windsucks in the field and will take a mouthful of grass then walk to the fence! :/ The trickle feeding high fibre diet you are doing plus the supplements to aid the stomach is all you can do but I think you will have to come to terms with the fact he will always do it. My mare is the best horse I could ever have though so dont let the windsucking put you off him!
 

Dowjones

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How long is she on the current diet? Could it be that she was on a high sugar/cereal diet until recently so it is still habit to crib after a feed?
 

lowbridge.farm

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I have a mare who has been seen to windsuck from time to time. I think this was stress induced when I sold my other horse who she was turned out with. As a working/competition/hunt horse she needs to be fed hard food but I have heard that this alone can trigger the behaviour. I am careful to feed pink powder, fenugreek and speedibeet along with her normal mix/nuts/healthy hooves, she has a very good routine with plenty of exercise and turnout with another horse. When she is stabled there is absolutely no where in her box that she can purchase on to windsuck - it is covered with plastic tubing or cribbox and when she is turned out she has access to plenty of grass to keep her busy. My own personal feeling is to keep the tummy happy! :)
 

EquestrianFairy

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Thanks all.

Maybe it's a habit of hers to crib after a hard feed?

DowJones: it's been about a week on her new feed, previous to that she was on a cereal based feed (I've only had her 5 weeks) and I phased it out slowly then brought in the new one, she had about a week where she was on nothing before the new feed came in.

She also has a haynet around an hour before exercise, however she has to have hay as when she is on hayledge (my mistake!!) she literally cribbed non stop. Least with the hay she actually stops cribbing for a good while Inbetween.

Im going to look into charcoal as I've heard a lot of people mention it.
 

ArabianGold

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I have a TB mare and she cribs/windsucks. She only ever does it after eating her dinner/breakfast now. Apart from that she is calming down with the habit. Although she is now worked a lot more, hay is better quality and she is generally a lot happier in herself. My bet thought the reason she sucks after her tea is due to it being a lot to digest and also this is the hardest time to break the habit just like a smoker craving a cig after a meal

Best of luck

Adios
 

Slinkyunicorn

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She also has a haynet around an hour before exercise, however she has to have hay as when she is on hayledge (my mistake!!) she literally cribbed non stop. Least with the hay she actually stops cribbing for a good while Inbetween.

Im going to look into charcoal as I've heard a lot of people mention it.


I feed mine a scoop of pure alfalfa before any work - it has a high calcium content so will help to neutralise any acid more effectively than hay:)
 
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