Just typed out a long reply - and the server went down!
It costs £40 plus travelling, so a lot dearer than a farrier trim. They are insured.
Becca, thanks for posting again. We were at crossed purposes. I don't believe shod horses are suffering, what I meant was that I wouldn't see my own horse's suffering so if they were struggling over gravel etc per FF''s earlier post then yes I would put shoes on. No way would I watch them in pain.
However as my boy is coping with all terrain without shoes, other than stoney tracks when he wears boots on his front feet I have no plans to put shoes back on him ever. But if he needed them then of course he would have them, no question.
As a newbie am learning quickly to try to ensure full clarity in all my posts, but sorry if not achieving that yet.
FF - dont know if this has been covered before so I apoogise if it has already been said.
My understanding of the difference between a unshod horse and a barefoot horse is the difference in the trim that is given. Basically when a farrier trims an unshod horse he will cut the foot back as necessary and trim the frog again as necessary. The he/she will go ahead and rasp the foot flat. However when a barefoot trimmer/EP trims a horse it is completly different. They will rasp the edges and balance the foot but the horse will naturally wear its foot down (some trimming maybe necessary in some cases). Also when you see a totally natural barefoot horse their feet are a lot smaller than you expect them to be - this is due to the common size of the feet due to shoeing.
The foot looks completely different from underneath. If you pick up a true natural barefoot horse foot up you will notice approx 1 inch from the hoof wall inwards all the way round, is quite flat then it concaves inwards. The frog will be a lot larger and cover more of the foot than a normal unshod horse. Also the frog covers most of the foot. The quarters of the feet also dont have any contact with the ground so naturally the foot has a gentle wave like shape to them whereas the unshod foot is completely flat.
There has been a lot of "hype" shall we call it recently about barefoot, maybe this is why everyone seems to be going "barefoot". But unless they have a true natural trim then there horse is just unshod. I turned to barefoot as Ebi my mare has been on and off lame now for 4 years. She has had different types of remedial farriery work done on her with some or no change to her. I thought I had got nothing to lose but everything to gain from trying barefoot. WIthin 4 weeks of having her shoes removed and having her first barefoot trim she has come sound. A point to mention is with Ebi, my farrier has hardly touched her hind feet for approx 2 years -he has only ever really tidied up the edges. Her hinds are now perfectly balanced and "natural" shaped.
mmmm, not really relevant but I tried Ty barefoot and he acted like he was walking on hot coals for 4 weeks....I couldn't bear sticking it out so got the shoes straight back on him! x
Just out of interest did you go "barefoot" or "un-shod" as it seems their is quite a difference. Also did you use a farrier or a barefoot trimmer? Just curious really
[ QUOTE ]
Just out of interest did you go "barefoot" or "un-shod" as it seems their is quite a difference. Also did you use a farrier or a barefoot trimmer? Just curious really
[/ QUOTE ]
Used a farrier.
His hooves were just too shallow and I couldn't hack out anywhere - even in the school he was footsore. Didn't see the point on keeping him that way if it didn't agree with him. I understand that he'd be a bit footsore but he was hopping lame and not a happy chappy! x
[ QUOTE ]
I thought barefoot and unshod were different. I was under the impression that unshod was having shoes removed, or never having had them, and barefoot was when the hooves were trimmed differently.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funnily enough, I was talking to my own farrier today and asked him this exact question, "How is barefoot trimming different from trimming a hoof to receive a shoe?" He said, "They are the same", and explained that in his opinion there is only one way to trim a hoof so that it is exactly as it should be for the individual horse, whether or not it is shod afterwards.
I have great faith in my farrier. He has several apprentices, does remedial work and works closely with Liphook Hospital, and has been my farrier for eight years.
He says he is not a great believer in 'barefoot', but will do it if the owner wants and it is in the horse's best interests. He was very scathing about owners 'doing it themselves'. He pointed out that one of his apprentices has worked for him for nearly 18 months, and is only just being allowed to trim a foot, and with supervision.
Marius has had no back shoes for several years now and his feet are in great condition.
I think the main difference between using a farrier or a trimmer is the trimmers recommend hoof pads etc for walking and riding in initially, to help stimulate the sole, walls and heels. Mine would never have managed without doing this initially, most especially on the fronts. They really do make a difference, but I'm not sure if many farriers use them or not?
My horse is unshod/barefoot/shoeless/barehoofed/nakedfooted/not shod etc, etc.
Reason: None stop problems with being shod. Feet would just fall to bits etc.
Now we are now in to year 4 of being without shoes. He started off being trimmed by my existing farrier. Then he got lazy and wasn't trimming properly.
I couldn't find another Farrier who would come so I found a Barefoot Trimmer. She was very god expect she got to a stage where it was quite obvious she couldn't be bothered to come and see us anymore.
I tried trimming myself, that was going well but it took up so much precious time and was hard work.
Then a local guy qualified as a Farrier and I have been using him. I am very pleased and things are still going very well.
That is a canned version of my reasons and experience, so far!!
With regards to Stimpys comments. If you decide to go down the Natural Barefoot line you must decide to stick with it or it doesnt work. You cant always see the difference straight away and some horses feel it more than other. All horses have to go through a transition period which can take longer for some horses. It is advised that the horse may go footy/lame but if you bear with it the horse will become tolerant to different surfaces. Its like us. If we were to walk over stones with no shoes on it woukld hurt at first, but if we did it daily we would get used to it and our feet would harder up. This is exactly what a horses foot needs to do (this is the transition period). What normally happens is you introduce different types of terrain slowly, eg grass, soft paths not harcore, stoney paths straight away as the hrose wont be able to cope. As the different terrains are added then the foot will callous more - this is where I spoke about the inch all the way round the foot before it goes concave.
BTW - Stimpy I was only using you as an example, not having a go or anything.
[ QUOTE ]
FF - im glad you understood what I was saying.
With regards to Stimpys comments. If you decide to go down the Natural Barefoot line you must decide to stick with it or it doesnt work. You cant always see the difference straight away and some horses feel it more than other. All horses have to go through a transition period which can take longer for some horses. It is advised that the horse may go footy/lame but if you bear with it the horse will become tolerant to different surfaces. Its like us. If we were to walk over stones with no shoes on it woukld hurt at first, but if we did it daily we would get used to it and our feet would harder up. This is exactly what a horses foot needs to do (this is the transition period). What normally happens is you introduce different types of terrain slowly, eg grass, soft paths not harcore, stoney paths straight away as the hrose wont be able to cope. As the different terrains are added then the foot will callous more - this is where I spoke about the inch all the way round the foot before it goes concave.
BTW - Stimpy I was only using you as an example, not having a go or anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
I couldn't even ride him in a sand school after 4 weeks properly - hardly a well adapting horse! EAch to his own but I couldn't put my horse through the discomfort - and he turned into a monster without the exercise! I agree that if your horse is a bit footsore then go for it and it will work out. Ty was walking like a cripple and was on bute for 2 weeks....just not worth the agro. And his feet weren't great either.
Out of interest - anyones TB all round unshod/barefoot? Be interested to see if anyones managed it successfully! x
I know lots Park Ranger. It really does come down to the conditioning work you put in. The pads stimulate the foot and help transition them. Without that it is like you taking your own shoes off and starting to walk barefoot over everything.
Also know a yard full of polo ponies who play barefoot, a horse who events barefoot plus know of the dressage rider who competes barefoot (Lucinda McAlpine), the guy Simon Earle whose TB racehorses race barefoot and many others.
But it isn't for everybody and staying shod can make life easier for the horse and owner if you haven't got the time to transition them thoroughly.
Just don't believe that it suits all horses! If they're running around in field all day then great - but some horses feet will never take the pressure of riding on roads/being ridden full stop barefoot. I've seen people put in alot of time and effort (not me!) and failed.
Dont't hink that a practice should be forced because it's 'right' has to be right for the horse too
[ QUOTE ]
Parkranger just out of interest, why did you take your horses shoes off?
[/ QUOTE ]
Number of reasons really - not cost though. He hated being shod (which I found out was the farrier hitting him as I've now got a great farrier) and I was mainly hacking off road so thought i'd give it a go.
[ QUOTE ]
Just don't believe that it suits all horses! If they're running around in field all day then great - but some horses feet will never take the pressure of riding on roads/being ridden full stop barefoot. I've seen people put in alot of time and effort (not me!) and failed.
Dont't hink that a practice should be forced because it's 'right' has to be right for the horse too
[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't agree more! There is no point in pursuing something if it clearly makes the horse uncomfortable.
Here FeuFolet; this link might explain the difference in trims etc.
As far as I am aware, and indeed I could be quite wrong here, but I believe the term "barefoot" came from the BLM study done on mustangs a few years ago. They captured a number of mustangs and some were held for research and it was then that they tried to understand the differences in foot structure. A horse does have feet......only technically they are called hooves.
Most of my horses are unshod - they aren't trimmed barefoot, they are trimmed unshod. My previous farrier did barefoot trims and they are quite different from unshod. My present farrier can do barefoot trims but he doesn't on my horses, he just does the traditional unshod trim. Occasionally I will ask him to barefoot trim one of mine, perhaps because it is doing different type of work from the rest of them, but generally I am happy to just have him trim in the traditional form.
I have shod and unshod horses; always have had; it's whatever works best for each individual horse. Interestingly (for me anyway) my farrier in England opted for barefoot trim on my pony when she was suffering from laminitis - he believed this was more beneficial to her than a regular trim.....apparently he was right. This was the trim which he taught me to do and I did it with her and have done for a handful of others but now that I have so many horses there is no way I could be bothered doing them all - hence I'd rather pay someone else to do it for me.
PR - i really hope you didnt get offended by my post - if you did im sorry because it wasnt what I meant.
I can understand if your horse was crippled by the whole experience. Barefoot may not be for every horse. One of our ponies is going through the transition period and we have invested in some Boa boots for her as she is footy but only because her soles are very thin due to shoeing and that she has a huge crack down one of her feet. We have been advised that it may take her 6-9 months to complete the transition period but if it helps her long term and prootioes correct growth of the crack then it will be worth it.
[ QUOTE ]
PR - i really hope you didnt get offended by my post - if you did im sorry because it wasnt what I meant.
I can understand if your horse was crippled by the whole experience. Barefoot may not be for every horse. One of our ponies is going through the transition period and we have invested in some Boa boots for her as she is footy but only because her soles are very thin due to shoeing and that she has a huge crack down one of her feet. We have been advised that it may take her 6-9 months to complete the transition period but if it helps her long term and prootioes correct growth of the crack then it will be worth it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not at all - just thought that i was being told off for not trying properly. Must try harder
Have read this with interest as I have been wondering what the difference between unshod and 'barefoot' is for a while, but never got round to posting. I don't think either of my horses have good enough feet to cope without shoes, and they walk like cripples if they even lose a shoe, but one is very arthritic and in minimal work and the other is going through a losing shoes at an amazing rate, so the possibilty had crossed my mind
[ QUOTE ]
I know lots Park Ranger. It really does come down to the conditioning work you put in. The pads stimulate the foot and help transition them. Without that it is like you taking your own shoes off and starting to walk barefoot over everything..
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain how you used the pads? My mare has never been shod and we have a 'barefoot trimmer' but not of the KC la Pierre school. She hasn't advised pads - yet - and the pony is pretty sore on the roads - also turning into a nightmare without the excersice. I have hoof boots - do I put pads in those?
Hi Eceni. The pads are called Sole Mates. They are dense foam with a gritty texture. You can use them on their own for conditioning, by taping them on with duck tape, but it's a faff, and much easier to jam them into hoof boots. Over time they get thinner and eventually need replacing. They provide support for the transitioning sole and help with exfoliation of false sole, and they stimulate circulation, all of which is beneficial. For a horse who has been in discomfort for some time, maybe with navicular or arthritis, the relief is wonderful to see when you get them into pads! You get a real spring in their step again!
Sole Mates are available from EPs. I don't know where else, but I could put you in touch with my EP if you want some. As far as I remember they are between £15-20 a pair I think. Some people use similar materials to make cheaper pads, such as gym floor mats. The material needs to be quite dense if you think of half a ton of horse compressing them.
You may find you need to go up a size in Old Macs if you put pads in, as they take up a bit of depth, which if you imagine the boot is wider at the bottom than the top, it means that the sole will have less room with pads in as it sits higher up the boot.
my mare was always prone to losing shoes. She always went lame/footy when she threw one. She is now barefoot and is absolutely sound.
If you are considering it then maybe it would be good to invest in some boots eg Boa, Old Macs etc to help you with the transition period for when youre riding. They arent cheap but they last (ive been told years as they dont wear down). And once youve finished with them youll probably never need to use them again so could be sold on to someone else.
Thanks, guys - just tried to answer, so apologies if this comes up twice.
yes, please could you put me in touch with your EP - tho' I do have Easy Boots - just haven't tried the pads that go in them - you're right, will probably need a bigger pair - at £80 -
does anyone know of an EP who'd come to south Shropshire? Pony's been unshod all her life, but v sore now that we're going into work and I could do with a 2nd opinion on her feet
You can get Comfort Pads for Easyboots from various places. I use the Sole Mates initially and find them excellent. A little tip with these, they really are a faff to duct tape on. So I bought a couple of green Lincoln poultice boots, put loads of duct tape on the bottom to protect the material, cut the Sole Mates to size of horse's foot and use those. Really easy to use and much quicker to put on than hoof boots, especially as the Sole Mates are quite thick.
I am going to be gving the comfort pads a try inside his Easyboot Bares. They only arrived at the back end of last week so haven't used them yet. (I got mine from the Saddlery Shop online, think they were something like £5 or £6 per pair, but can't remember). There are two thicknesses of these available - 6mm and 12mm.
To find an EP their website is www.epauk.org and it should have details of who would cover your area.
Thanks for all that - will try when I'm back from a weekend away and with luck the spring grass will have stopped turning her loopy and we'll be back on track
[ QUOTE ]
To find an EP their website is www.epauk.org and it should have details of who would cover your area.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did that
great big blank space in the shropshire area. Might have to train up but don't think my back would stand it...