Council land- profiteering

qwerty1 said:
Again, to clarify- I have been on the land ALOT longer than the woman who charges me rent.
Now, as for money being paid, I feel pressurised into it and I always assumed it was within my interests to pay, to keep a home for my horse. You could say I pay it for an easy life. Yes, she is also a bully.
Before this, the leaseholder wasn't at all bothered about rent, occasionally I would give her a bale of hay 'donation'. She would always stipulate it had to be a 'donation', for obvious reasons.

I have stopped paying many times, only to be hit with yet more home made invoices and comments about being in arrears. She also starts hitting me with all sorts of restrictions and comments about what I can and cant do.
For example, if horse out in a particular section, she will bring it out and physically MOVE it, until the rent is paid.

Thank you again for all of your advice -it has given me a lot more confidence to talk to her about it, and talk to the leaseholder, too.

I am going to request to see a copy of the lease document(s) (if I can!), and also look into adverse possession.
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If she is going to move your horse and put it in danger for money IMHO I'd just leave as horses welfare is more important then cheap livery
 
I fully understand this land has been your horses home for 10 years but you really have no security at all, should the leaseholder give up the land to someone else then it may well be that you will all be asked to move on!

I would suggest you move your horse now whilst you have a choice, rather than be forced out in the future or even prevented from accessing it....
 
Hi,
Thanks for your replies.

Shellonabeach- I agree. I am in a real mess of a situation and know I would be best off out of it.

Apart from anything else I would like to see the land go to someone who deserves the privilege of keeping horses there instead of taking advantage ,financially, of a rare situation, and someone who pays their way legitimately rather than the person I am with at the moment.

I just don't know where else to go, as I've always been here. Plus I have no transport and use a bike!

amymay- leaseholder isn't interested, ill.

Unaware /doesn't care.
 
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I'm still really confused. So, to sum up, a random lady with no known official connection to anyone just showed up one day, started demanding money from you by means of home-made invoices, and keeps you in line by moving your horses around and padlocking gates when you don't ante up? Isn't that known as a "protection racket", and usually the province of sinister men of Sicilian extraction wearing fedoras? The whole situation sounds surreal!
 
How very confusing! As I read it...

  • Council land rented by the leaseholder
  • You have been there 10 years+
  • In that time you have gave the lease holder some hay as gifts, but never charged rent
  • Fellow livery moved in
  • Leasehold now ill and not taking anything to do with it
  • Fellow livery now "trying" to charge you 100pm.


So all you have to do is find out if this fellow livery is collecting the money on behalf of the lease holder, its just a simple question to the lease holder " hey are we being charged rent now and is fellow livery collecting it? 'Cause if so Id like to pay you directly if that's ok"

If the answer is " no, I dont charge rent" then you can tell fellow livery to get lost.
If the answer is "yes she pays me the money 'cause I dont want the hassle of it" the you simply say "that's fine no problem, just let me know the amount and ill stick it straight into your bank account each month"

Simplez :D
 
spookypony said:
I'm still really confused. So, to sum up, a random lady with no known official connection to anyone just showed up one day, started demanding money from you by means of home-made invoices, and keeps you in line by moving your horses around and padlocking gates when you don't ante up? Isn't that known as a "protection racket", and usually the province of sinister men of Sicilian extraction wearing fedoras? The whole situation sounds surreal!
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I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this! I read all four pages thinking there must be more to this or I must have misunderstood, but it seems not. It's crazy.

OP. If some random stranger knocked on the door of your rented house and barged in, announced that they were nothing to do with the landlord or the bank who owns the mortgage deeds, but that they (the stranger) were now going to be living in your house, and that in addition to the rent you pay the landlord you now have to pay this stranger rent too - would you just go along with it for an easy life??? I can't believe you've been paying her for the last 7yrs.

Can't she be arrested for squatting and theft or something? Have you spoken to the police about it? Though I suspect it may be the leaseholder or land owner who has to complain about her squatting there. Would it be considered fly grazing? There are laws against that I think. You could speak to the police about the money she has basically stolen from you though.

ETA: alainax,

I think if you change "fellow livery" to "random stranger who doesn't have leaseholders permission to occupy land"

and

"trying to charge rent" to "successefully intimidating into paying rent"

then it would be more accurate.
 
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Seems simple to me , tell the person asking for money you're not paying , and tell her if she asks again you are going to the police as demanding money with menaces is unlawful .
and look around for somewhere proper and safe to keep your horse .
 
Ive rented land from the council & i was only allowed on there for 11months at a time, it was then rested for a month while it was put up for tender again. All seems a bit odd to me, but maybe some councils work in different ways. Sounds more like its being grazed by all parties without permission.
 
"Could be wrong, but doubt it, another bizarre post that makes no sense what so ever. Makes me think to many people have too much spare time on their hands,,,,,,, "

No, you are wrong , and so rude.

I only thought of sharing this with the forum because I was unsure of where I stood legally. As you can see, yes , ive confused a lot of people, but its a weird and complicated situation!!

I didn't want to take legal advice before finding out what other people would do in the same situation-- is that really so hard to understand?!

Thank you for all your replies.


Subject closed.
 
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Frankly yes it is hard to understand I simply can't imagine why you would give money to anyone except the leaseholder .
And when the land is being squatted on by a person who demands money from you and you keep giving them money then come on here asking for advice .
I think it's likely both of you are there illegally unless the leaseholder is allowed to sublet .
If I where you I would move my horse to somewhere safe and well run PDQ.
 
navaho said:
Ive rented land from the council & i was only allowed on there for 11months at a time, it was then rested for a month while it was put up for tender again. All seems a bit odd to me, but maybe some councils work in different ways. Sounds more like its being grazed by all parties without permission.
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This, actually, now I think of it.
My parents rent a small piece of land from the council and each year they have to reapply.

The whole thing seems bizarre, I'm not convinced its real tbh. But if it is - why not contact the council directly for advice?
 
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qwerty1 said:
I only thought of sharing this with the forum because I was unsure of where I stood legally. As you can see, yes , ive confused a lot of people, but its a weird and complicated situation!!

I didn't want to take legal advice before finding out what other people would do in the same situation-- is that really so hard to understand?!
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Well.....yes.
Sorry, but I really fail to understand why you are giving money to someone with no legal right to demand money from you.
Don't pay it, and if she keeps on then report her for harassment.

I really really can't understand why you have been giving money to this woman.

I'm sorry you're in this situation and I hope you manage to get it sorted but honestly I haven't heard something so bizarre in ages.
 
Just because this situation is rare, I am apparently a troll!

Yes, I am aware most councils provide tender packs, in which someone puts forward a good case as to how they will use the land, for a fixed short period, usually two years. Then the land is re advertised.

As you can see by past posts, iam going to find out whether subletting is allowed, and if it is well then I will keep paying HAPPILY.

Again....subject now closed!
 
All you need to do is speak to Land Management at your local Council, or if the land is within a Parish Council area your Parish Councillor will be able to help you.

As far as paying your livery to a third party, I would be asking a few questions along the lines of HMRC, DWP, unearned income etc. If this third party is claiming benefit of any kind the DWP would be very keen to hear from you.
 
qwerty1 said:
Just because this situation is rare, I am apparently a troll!

Yes, I am aware most councils provide tender packs, in which someone puts forward a good case as to how they will use the land, for a fixed short period, usually two years. Then the land is re advertised.

As you can see by past posts, iam going to find out whether subletting is allowed, and if it is well then I will keep paying HAPPILY.

Again....subject now closed!
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I am sorry you post something like this online you don't get to close it when you don't like what people post.
 
Okay , well sorry if ive offended anyone. I simply wanted some advice to see if anyone was in a similar situation.

I realise now I am a complete and utter idiot and a waste of space for letting this happen
 
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Don't take it so personally. Your situation sounds bizarre!

It sounds like you know this woman isn't collecting rent for either the owner or leaseholder so really struggling to understand how you got to this point!


Why don't you start producing invoices made out to her and telling her she owes you money?!
 
I have been totally confused by what has happened and I think for my head I will not try to understand it! Did she ever give a reason why you had to pay her?

Also go get yourself a lovely large chain and padlock and lock your horse into its field.....therefore it can't be moved unless she knocks down the fence or cuts the chain?

However I think there was one point that is of interest! Did you say the current leaseholder is ill and uninterested in the land?

If this is so I would be trying to take over this lease! Obviously it needs to not be to expensive and work for you, however it would give you the upper hand on this other woman!
 
For goodness's sake, no-one called you an idiot! Please calm down. We're just trying to understand the situation. What I'm trying to understand in particular is this: the lady you give money to, can she show that she has officially been put into a position where she can legally collect money from you? Has the leaseholder authorised her to either collect livery on his behalf, or has she sub-rented the land from him? In your position, I'd want to know this, and then I'd grab the whole wad of paperwork (including the invoices) and take it to a solicitor for advice.
 
Another one here who just doesn't understand I'm afraid.

I am quite a shy person. I keep myself to myself. I don't much like confrontation and actively avoid it.

However, even I...faced with the situation of a random stranger turning up and demanding money...would tell her immediately to get stuffed!!

As another poster mentioned, the woman is demanding money with menaces (think that's the legal term). You need to tell her (take someone else with you for moral support/as a witness) that you will no longer pay her a penny and if she threatens you or your horses again, touches or worries your horses in any way you will immediately report her to the police. In all honesty, I would have been on the phone to the police the very first time she intimidated you into handing over money.

If you can't/won't do this then you need to find somewhere else for your horses to live.
 
This:

Bucks Fizz said:
Why don't you start producing invoices made out to her and telling her she owes you money?!
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And this:

TandD said:
Also go get yourself a lovely large chain and padlock and lock your horse into its field.....therefore it can't be moved unless she knocks down the fence or cuts the chain?
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Its a very weird sitution, but to be honest very easy to rectify - just stop paying her money! You'd think what she is doing would come under harrassment / extortion?
 
So let me get this straight, a person moves their horse on this land without consulting the leaseholder, and demands rent off you? Something doesn't smell right here, I think they're committing (sp) fraud.
 
Shadeyoak said:
So let me get this straight, a person moves their horse on this land without consulting the leaseholder, and demands rent off you? Something doesn't smell right here, I think they're committing (sp) fraud.
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What puzzles me most is why any-one would pay the fraudster. There's nowt so queer as folk!
 
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